Lucky7Strikes

Ok, as long as we have an understanding.

@ Gold I've been reading through your discussions with Todd on the What is Magic? thread. It's incredibly fresh. _/\_

Ok. So we have it down to the basic disagreement. I'm fine with leaving this discussion here. Anything more, it will have to be self-recognized.

That aliveness is mind. Awareness. Emptiness/creativity is its function. Creative potency of primordial awareness. And that aliveness is infinite potential for manifestation. Here's a nice quote: Within the essence of ultimate truth, [yang dag don gyi ngo bo la] there is no buddha or ordinary being. [sangs rgyas dang ni sems can med] Since awareness cannot be reified, it is empty. [rig pa 'dzin pa med pas stong] Given that it does not dwell in emptiness, [stong pa nyid la me gnas na] it abides in its own state of supreme bliss. [rang gi bde chen sa la gnas] The majestic ruler of all buddhas [sangs rgyas kun gyi rje btsan pa] is understood to be one's own awareness. [rang gi rig pa shes par bya] This monarch, naturally manifest awareness, [rang snang rig pa'i rgyal po nyid] is present in everyone, but no one realizes it. [kun la yod de kun gyis rtog pa med -Longchenpa

You know, forget the word mind, or consciousness, or thoughts, or whatever. Just forget everything and see that you are alive. Just notice this aliveness. Don't think d.o. or this is alive or that is alive. This is the most basic component to existence. That you are alive. Just purely acknowledge that.

.... For the millionth time. Mind is not a substance. It's not some agent that creates things. Try to see it as a living limitless potential actualized. You just need to see that you are...alive.

I edited my post above for clarification.

How can you be attached to limitless potentiality? It's ungraspable.

Uh, no. Mind is limitless. How does one know "whole"? You can't "see" the whole or find it if you are the limitless whole. Like space. Like trying to see your eyes with your eyes. Its contents are dependently arisen because mind's nature is manifestation through d.o. The sentence "the nature of mind is emptiness" should be understood in the usage of "the nature of ball is sphereness, or to bounce." Emptiness is its character. So it is living emptiness potential.

The nature of mind is emptiness. How's that? Instead of seeing that each moment is d.o.ed I see that in each moment, and through one's continuum of experience, the entire potential of mind is acknowledged. No universe. Just independent minds.

It's just the nature of experience.

If you mean knowingness/cognizance of mind to mean your thoughts, ok. But imo knowing and cognizance is in all states of experience. How clear, dense, neurotic, blissful that knowing experience may be, it is still cognizance, in that you are aware. I'm beginning to see awareness as a gradient, kind of like the model of conscious, subconscious, unconscious, it reaches into the infinite.

The mind is limitless. I think we are coming to an agreement.

Yes and emptiness is alive. So I call it awareness.

And so what makes you different from someone who has hallucinations of Jesus and joins Christianity as a lineage. People have similar visions of Jesus or Krishna or whoever get together and believe they are right. They talk to God and have profound visions in their lineage and say "I am being humble." They see deities from all types of religious traditions that emerge during meditation. Even stuff like body of light isn't just part of Buddhism. I am not saying I don't need it. I'll use it, I'll learn from it if I see that people in a certain lineage is agreeable and wise. I don't approach this whole thing with a sectarian attitude and I think suggesting people do so is extremely harmful to letting people find their own wisdom.

Yes, and that's what we've been saying too.... It's like you are so paranoid of Hindu Self paradigm you just assume everything that's slightly different from Buddhist terms into it.

How is this anyway helpful in a discussion? I can hear this type of "I experienced it, you didn't" type of stuff in church. That's not what I'm suggesting.

None of Vimalamitra or Namdrol's clarifications clash with what me or gold have been saying. If all-creating-kind is mind that does not recognize its nature. Than mind that recognizes its nature of emptiness is rigpa.

Uh, have you seen Jesus? Have you? Well I have. And he directly told me he was from the heaven and the Lord up there was watching over our every actions. He gave me direct transmission from God and said that all the other religions are road straight to hell, that they were trickeries he produced. At the end of the day this is not about lineage, the Buddha, or any of that. It's about you figuring out your existence.

What's the difference? My personal nature is eternal. Same thing. Well, the person who translated it has been a student of Norbu since the seventies. The translation was done directly under the guidance of Norbu. I don't get how all that gets mis-translated. Your reply is basically, "you're wrong, you don't understand, get transmission, join a lineage."

I think this is important for people who already think they have arrived at some effortless state. And to every arising they just say "it's empty, it's d.o.ing" or "that's not me, there is no me." To think like this is incredibly deceptive and limits people's ability to dig deeper into their selves. As a long term practice, I can understand that it could be effective, like using water to grind down a solid rock. Or your neurotic habits might cease and one might experience more vividly. But you can just as easily become pacified at a certain point where you revel in being relaxed. That's probably the most deceptive part, because it works well especially for today's age.

So when you kill a person it's you. But when you go on this forum it's the universe? Or does the universe sort of confuse itself into being a person, does all these evil deeds, gets punished, suffers a long time, and have to wait for eons and eons to become enlightened back to being the universe..??? Or if it's both, where do you end and the universe begin exactly?

I don't know. I think for you, it's mostly attributed to gurus and and teachers d.o.'ing through you. .

Yeah, that might be your mind.

I wasn't telling you to "lighten up" in the condescending matter. I was just clarifying the tone behind the post wasn't as cynical or ill intentioned as you might have viewed it. I don't see that as the greatest freedom, to let all responsibilities go and blame everything on the universe.