Lucky7Strikes

Ah I see, it seems like you are speaking of delving deeper into one's own unconscious. In a way your method answers for the ending of Gold's previous post of delving deeper into one's buried imprints and intentions... I think your practice also relates to concentration practices but it's but into a different vocabulary..the Buddhist samatha jnanas, and in a way it's not so different than gaining insight into one's "mindstream" as you use it. I think they call this emtying out the jnanas in Buddhism, but I'm not so sure. On another note, Are you aware of Kunlun practice? The water methods of Frantzis and Kunlun go really well together imho. .

Thanks Gold, that was a great post!

Hi Jane, I'd be happy to hear your input.

Hi Mark, In my perspective, it's not about ceasing or beginning things, it's knowing that the things are without boundaries. It's also not about ceasing volition, but knowing that there is no one to have volition, but only the false idea that there was someone there at first to make a choice...

How do we "know"? How do we "know" what this moment is? That there is a me, or rather "thisness"? Or that this is now and there was a past, and that there will be a future? How do we see movement from one point to the next? How do we know that there is a person sitting in front of me, that it is a person and not a statue, a dream, an imitation? Where do we delineate between this moment then the next, from one thing to another? How do we know if there is or there isn't a universal consciousness, or whether if we are the only consciousness, or that there are separate mindstreams? How do we know whether or not the person in front me is a hallucination, or whether or not I am the butterfly and not the dreamer? Xabir, How is there the knowledge of dependent origination, of Maha? Of interconnectedness if in sitting there is JUST sitting, that in hearing there is JUST sound? If in thinking there is JUST thinking. Where do we draw the boundaries of that "just beingness? Where is the boundary of the experience of hearing and then to the experience of smelling? We can't draw any boundaries... Gold, what you seem to be saying is that we cannot know; there is never a certainty. We cannot know that we know, so we know that we don't know and then there is nothing established and nothing to be negated! Establish the unestablishment, negate negation! Empty the emptiness! Hence the right view takes us to the brink of collapsing everything into uncertainties...and even that view is unestablished...! The entire process of Thusness's stages is the stripping of establishments: the I Am deconstructs our materialist universe, the first stanza strips away an inherent dooer, the second stanza deconstructs everything down to momentary experience! But this is not enough, because even this very experience cannot be grasped because sound is never JUST sound, there is a potential to it, a context to it. Tarin can say all he wants about just feeling the senses..but does he not write about it? Doesn't he return with a perspective on it? It still leaves him imprints, tendencies...there is never JUST experiences of "sound"....to Tarin there is no such thing...there is still an establishment of a view or the real way to experience, and a false way... But, and I think this is very very important, this sense of interconnectedness does NOT arise from establishing a universe, a background, or anything. We do not think universe or a set of causes and conditions and say "A + B + C = D"...It comes from a sense of uncertainty, of ungraspable nature of things. Hence the word dependence is used. Dependent on WHAT? If this sound is not inherent, unestablished, it must arise from something, somewhere, from a cause, from a condition, but Xabir as you said, We don't know! There is no way of knowing because the new moment of "trying to know" arises. Dependence breeds dependence...so we say it is dependent, uncertain, unknownable! Thus the very presence is deconstructed to the uncertainty, uncertainty of this very moment itself! Where does it come from? Where does it go? But then it's GONE! Ungraspable, no boundaries...we are completely and totally OPEN to anything... BUT! the mind, no mind-phenomena-luminosity... still appears through delineation...it works through concepts...It draws the boundaries of "here" "now""sound", when stripped to its very bareness, the "non-dual" experience of things...and it MUST...it must because that is what experience is...we never really, truly experience movement, we experience an impression of a movement, we don't experience space...we experience the impression of space...a THIS...insight is into its ungraspability, D.O, emptiness, whatever else, unsubstantiated.. So they say the union of emptiness and luminosity..the uncertainty of certainty...viewless view.. So I get it! I get it now when Xabir, you asked me months ago what it meant that sound liberated sound, that touch liberated touch...just as the Buddha upon enlightenment touched the earth as a "witness" to his enlightenment, the arising and passing away fo experience certifies from moment to moment its own very uncertainty! Everything in a let go...let go..let goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :lol: .

Yes yes I agree, but I just think you are thinking too linearly. The causal links definitely mix. This is like saying the body is a linear link in itself which may only seem so, but when we examine what constitutes body, the causes are interconnected with everything else in the universe, the food, the molecules, the activities of cells, interaction with other bodies... If there is interdependence of events there is interdependence of causes, hence causal links. Not necessarily karmic, in the sense that I pay for your wrong actions, but a causal link, as in you step on my foot and I feel pain. I think you are solidifying a mind stream too much, it is just arising of memory imprints. We don't have a disagreement over concepts here. Just emphasis. I think it's same for Gold.

Yup, the separation of terms into manifest and unmanifest is too coarse when it's not really like that in daily experience. But I am not as sure of this as you might be, because it seems that the unmanifest is often the "knowing" aspect of experience while the manifest is the vivid experience itself. I am holding a bottle of ginger ale and my body "knows" that it is something I can drink due to my knowledge of all the unmanifest things, conceptual knowledge of it--that is is drinkable, sweet, etc.--and the knowledge of the dharma, or dependence is also like that, a knowledge of the unmanifest. Actually perhaps all knowledge is like that, never direct, but idealized. But I cannot say that the unmanifest and manifest arise together, that wouldn't make sense because experience itself is the definition of manifestation. Rather the knowledge of the unmanfest is there, and although one can completely immerse oneself into the timeless pure existence of manifestation, the janas, etc, that would be to do away with that knowledge, so Buddhism says see the unmanifest knowledge as the manifestation.. Union of the knowing of emptiness and luminosity! of samatha and vipassana, of maha and spontaneity! (haha, sorry, I'm getting too excited over words). .

The word "link" is where it gets really really tricky in my point of view, because it's not as if there is this one thing being linked to the next, but rather only the impression of a link via imprints of memory. There really is no link besides that, the whole world is linked via abstract "delineation" as Gold put it anyway, so no need to stress a single link above another. But think about the context in which the causes and conditions produce that dream. It is infinite as in, it is not only the waking state that conditions that experience, but the position you are sleeping in, the temperature of the room, a memory from a very distant past or just yesterday...one upon another, an infinite regression of dependence upon dependence...which includes the karmas, actions, deeds of all sentient beings in the very moment of that dream! And then the next moment, then the next and so on...a grand process but with nothing to be defined! All in one and one in all, Indra's net! Nothing is continuing but the sense of continuum is what I am trying to say.

Yes, yes, Gold you put it much better than I could. Call it seeing flowers in the sky, but the flowers are still seen. The unknown potentials are as important and unsubstantiated as the known moment of now. No thick walls. There is no cosmic self, but a cosmos that works through relativity between the known and the unknown! But the unknown is precisely that, unknown. We do not know all the causes and conditions because we are the manifest, the recognizing of this limitation rather lets us be open!

Hi Xabir, The karmic deeds of the mind seem only substantial when one creates a false sense of entity creating and being affected by the karmic deeds. But I disagree that the karmic deeds only belong to specific mindstreams that would solidify an inherent separateness to each streams which I believe is false. There is only an impression of continuum. I agree that one's karmic deeds only affect oneself, but again, this is only the case when there is a grasping of a "self" to do and be affected by its own deeds. But karma, I remember, is only a part of the whole of causes and conditions, and not the entire picture. Luminosity as not a shared essence, but a shared taste...? The "roundness" of basketballs, is not an essence, but their taste.

I'm not so sure what relatively infinite means, but if a thing is relatively infinite, I'm not sure if it is a thing at all. lol. The thing that baffled me over and over is this aspect of "individuality" of mindstreams such as the Buddha's. I think there was a discussion of "how can there be a sense of a continuing sense of self without a link between each moment"...these concepts were in contrast to the uniqueness of each moment's arising and ceasing, anatta, no-doer etc... but the meaning of "imprints" struck me as each moment not disappearing at all, but leaving an effect. My moment of awareness is simply a cause in itself, not any more special or important than other causes however, giving rise to this moment then the next and so on. So if we take the fire example where the fuel and the fire as indistinguishable, the fuel also is a cause and condition for the fire, but also the fire itself from branch to branch, so hence the "sense" of continuum, but nor really a thing there. For most people this sense of continuum results in a sense of selfhood, but for the Buddha, the moment of realization dependently originates as the dharma, realization of the nature of all phenomena simply confirms itself for...eternity...the awareness of a Buddha is eternal! So it struck me that the Buddha is nothing but the dharma, there is no Buddha, but the dharma!

Yes, I think the sense of "stream" is precisely due to the imprints of those memories making it seem like a continuous "thing" but it's really only the impression of continuum we can only be sure of. And I also agree that the moment is unique to itself, which is, at this moment, "me".

Small scale wars are already happening in the Middle East. Oil prices rise every year. Food prices are bound to rise. Europe India Japan and Korea are already hurting... So... What's the prediction?

Seth, Kan tells the story later in the video. He doesn't meet Max with the shaman. The shaman just tells Kan that he will meet someone important to him in Japan. I heard the story from Max and he told it the same way. Another Kunlun misunderstanding...

Wow.... Just...wow... Oh and your pic too...wow..

"there must also be a total new paradigm shift in terms of view; we must free ourselves from being bonded to the idea, the need, the urge and the tendency of analyzing, seeing and understanding our moment to moment of experiential reality from a source, an essence, a center, a location, an agent or a controller and rest entirely on anatta and Dependent Origination." _/\_

I only reject is because you asserted it. :lol: :lol: Balance of Yin and Yang?

One who is at the source does not think about the source nor seeks it So one neither asserts that there is a source or that there is no source So what, for the enlightened being, can the idea of a source ever mean? I say not much

This is just your ego's grasping at an identity.

Oops, I must clarify further. The discriminations of mind arise from habit. When I say that there shouldn't be discriminations, I mean that there shouldn't be descriminations as pertaining to a "self" or grasping onto those discriminations as being absolute (I think I'm falling into meaningless words here because they've been used too much). The mind and the body do not need your discrimnations because they are already well conditioned. The conditioning can play it self out very smoothley, although a rough ride at first, without "You" grasping onto anymore concepts. This is how one's karma plays out. Actually, I find that the body's mind and body's function operate quite well without discrimination.

Ah I'm sorry. Language is tricky conveying these things. When I say no boundaries, there is a difference in saying "no-boundary" and "no boundariness" whence no such thing as a boundary enters the mind. This is just experiential, and I don't think we should delve too deep into their logic. My point was to say "it is" and "it isn't" or "dual" and "non-dual" is a mistaken way of perception. Understanding of one inevitably comes from the other, and so one's mind never escapes the trap of discrimination.

Investigate deeper into the "knowing" of location and it will be difficult to ascertain a thing called Earth. You can do this both from the perspective of You, or from the Earth. I think you're misunderstanding non-dualism with the opposite of dualism. You shouldn't think of things as with boundaries or without boundaries. I'm not saying the Earth exists or doesn't exist, but that the frame of seeing things as either or both are contradictory and cannot be said with any certainty. So I think your seeing them simultaneously is wrong. . But this is just my belief and conclusions; do with them what you will as it fits into what makes you happy .

Where is this Earth apart from your awareness? But more importantly, where is this "you" that sees the Earth? Are you the Earth looking at the Earth? Maybe, there is no Earth and there is no You, or maybe just Earth. Is it only habit-energies? Which you cannot find because you are that is the "finding"; a play of creation... So the Jalus is a manifestation of the true nature of the physical reality: that it is only Mind. Non-graspable and unfindable. The Sutras say that this reality is a belief reality, constructed on imaginary boundaries. But I think you are making this too complicated because you choose to draw the boundaries where there is none. . Too many discriminations...breed more discriminations...