Lucky7Strikes

......

The ego can be so fragile...dangling, dangling, dangling...

HAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!

I used to think Dwai was a "marble" head, but I really appreciate his inputs from Hindu perspective. The words may indeed represent the same realization, we don't know that, so let that be that. The Self, the state of Pure Consciouisness needs to be realized anyway, so it doesn't take anything away from the Hindu traditions that view the Self as the ultimate. After that, it is a matter of choice and personal will as to where further inquiry takes them. These arguements over history, language, etc. are useful only until they cease to have relevance to our very experiences. On another note, Some people think these threads are quite useless and filled with bickering words, but I disagree. Everyone here is sincere and passionate about their Path and understanding reality. Who cares if some insults are exchanged as long as the greater goal is not reduced to ego-fulfillment, arguing for arguing sakes. We are good people here, the passion is good, it humbles, incites, inspires, angers and at the end of the day, I (well at least myself) learn much from it. Thanks everyone. .

MAMA MIA!! CAN'T ANYONE TAKE AN INSULT??? WHY... SO... SERIOUSSS???? Anyways, when did I bring up determinism? You posted as if that was my way of seeing things...

You miss the point. My post had nothing to do with this. But I do respect your compassion and displaying it oh so valiantly through a web link. No you are talking about a state where consciousness is seen for what is is: isness, beingness. But that's beside the point and I don't really want to talk about that with you. I really have nothing to gain from this discussion, because I can't follow it. And you aren't reading or listening. No one cares, it really doesn't matter and this says nothing about anything. This is your ego entity getting the better of you. OH I"M SO DIFFERENT!! MEEEEEHHH!! And dude, the teabagging was an example to illustrate the concept of disliking "intellectual philosophizing" just because you can't grasp it. Had NOTHING TO DO WITH REPUBLICANS (or even with being open minded)!! Did I ever write anything about the definition of determinism? WHAT WHAT WHATTTTTT??? BWA BWA BWA. :lol: :lol:

From my childhood I had misalignment of knee joints and the legs. Staying in full lotus for more than 2, 3 minutes was excruciating to say the least. I tried the stretches but most were of no use. With inquiry, I sat, almost spontaneously, in full lotus for 25-30 minutes in complete bliss. 2 cents.

Then do explain. What the hell are you talking about? When did I ever say these things? I have no way of relating to you my experiences. I can only show the symbolic representations of that experience which is language itself. I never speak straight from scriptures. Everything I write I have investigated and inquired by direct experience of existence. You sound like a teabagger who dislikes liberal intellecutals because they are...elitist. Suffering as a choiceless karmic process? What the FUCK? I spent more than 20 pages with Xabir arguing against determinism!! Why don't you pay more attention? OH wait but you don't know what that means. You moron, the philosophical constructs ARE how you experience reality! The mask is your goddamn reality. There are only so many words I can use to describe the mystical. Beyond that it is indescribable and the very act of describing hinders progress. You linked about a girl who died because she was married too young. WHAT THE HELL DID THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WROTE??? NOTHING!! There is no teaching that I need to integrate. My insight is my teaching. I don't read stuff and try to follow it, I look directly into my being. Right here. Right now.

I think your comments are worthless because they rarely have anything to do with the conversation itself. It's like in the middle of a debate about the chemical make up of an apple, you go "NO, APPLE HAS TWO P's IN IT!" and continue arguing about using two P's and how the other person is wrong because two P's are unnecessary in spelling apple. Then you say "YOU ARE SO NARROW MINDED!" You don't even understand what people here mean when they mention "no self" but you keep arguing from your misunderstanding. Now, if you are new to these ideas, I wouldn't mind at all, but you've been doing this for quite a while. And I don't think you are stupid, so I'm not sure what the hell is wrong with you. But all in all, you have had absolutely no positive influence what so ever, especially to yourself (which is really what matters most), because your mind seems to be frozen into bits and pieces (it's just a guess). So if you don't understand, kindly question. If you are going toss in random comments for your ego's sake...shhhhhhh....( we know you studied philosophy and like to play poker, but so what?).

YES!!! This comment is awesome!

Sorry, I can't spell too well. Thanks for the correction. Most other times though, your comments and thoughts are pretty worthless. Like the one above. It's crap.

I hope Xabir doesn't post a 50 page quote anytime soon. But anyways... I hate the idea just as Marble does that Hitler is no different than a pice of rotting tree (ok, now if you are one of those people who believe in tree spirits, let's just assume trees are insentient for a second here), because then all this journey towards enlightenment and what not is no different than that either. Like one can say, oh the Buddha just grew up as a prince, got dissatisfied, and became a Buddha like Hitler did. Which is...kind of sad. The primordial I AM, the Pure Consciousness of an individual (Not some Universal one, because we can never know what is Universal outside our own experience), is like the sun, and the things we experience, the material things, are like the earth. See the sun simply shines, it doesn't really purposefully "do" anything but shines and gives life. Consciousness is like that, it just simply IS. Now what comes about from the union of the two? Life! Existence! One became two, then became three, then 10,000 things! But one must understand that this creation is not separate from Heaven and Earth, it is a composite form, an overlapping element of the two. This is the Heart/Mind. Cultivators who keep barking out that there is no I without seeing the Consciousness, identify themselves with the ever-changing aspect of phenomena (to Mikaelz, this is Kunlun 1 IMO). But then cultivators who identify with the Sun aspect, the pure Being aspect, see themselves as the Sun, the Witness (I think this is Kunlun 2), and detach themselves from Earth. IMO, both are incomplete. But the final goal is to unify the trinity, and all the things we do here is to merge to that unspeakable state of unity of these elements, and that comes by understanding that all these elements are (Kunlun III?). ahem, *puts on sunglasses EMPTY AND DEPENDENT ON ONE ANOTHER. This can be said to be an I, but a wholly different I, so perhaps we can't even call it that. But the I just doesn't "disappear," it liberates into everything (Heavens) and nothing (Earth). But before that, one must learn to see both elements and play around with it. To be free "of" comes from seeing the every changing aspect of phenomena and the free "to" comes from the infinite possibility of creation. So one can play around freely! YAY!

oops.

The self is just relative. It doesn't mean there is a self and it doesn't mean there isn't a self. But I don't think you should say that there is no self, that's a bit extreme. People who say that there is an "I" act from that presumption, so you can say that for that person, there is an I. Since you seem so adamant that there is no "I," well then for you there is no "I" but just phenomena I guess. Or for Dwai who like the Self, not the ego self, but the clear, ever present, immortal, Clarity, Beingness or whatever, then that is his I. It's just how each person wants to experience reality.

Heaven (Pure Consciousness) crosses with Earth (Phenomena) and in the overlap there is Man ("I"). Imagine a van diagram. All three coexist dependently, it is the basis for existence itself. Suffering arises when a conditional Man is grasped as an identity, and a false duality is established. The imagined ego believed to be separated from Heaven and Earth, struggle in a cyclical existence of attachments. The merging of all three elements, wherein Phenomena, Pure Consciousness, and Heart-Mind unite into a unhindered existence, the Alchemy is complete. Yin and Yang cease to have meaning: I am Phenomena, I am Pure Consciousness, I am I, and so forth. It is indescribable.

I sense...uh what do you call this...sarcasm? passive aggression? mockery? kekekkeke....

I'm not sure what inquiring into the self has anything to do with figuring out magic tricks. I guess I can figure out magic tricks if I really wanted to, but why is that so important or have anything to do with finding the "mindstream"? If you've been disappointed with the Gurus or what not, I suggest you look in Ramana Maharshi. His life may suit your vision of an exemplary guru.

The works above make sweeping narrow minded generalizations with limited knowledge of teachings of Yoga, Buddhism, and cultivation in general. It's kind of like those oriental drawings. And at times, they're just forcing it...like the Dalai Lama section of Stripping the Guru.

And what will you do with your powers?

"Everything has its "that," everything has its "this." From the point of view of "that" you cannot see it, but through understanding you can know it. So I say, "that" comes out of "this" and "this" depends on "that" - which is to say that "this" and "that" give birth to each other. But where there is birth there must be death; where there is death there must be birth. Where there is acceptability there must be unacceptability; where there is unacceptability there must be acceptability. Where there is recognition of right there must be recognition of wrong; where there is recognition of wrong there must be recognition of right. Therefore the sage does not proceed in such a way, but illuminates all in the light of Heaven.6 He too recognizes a "this," but a "this" which is also "that," a "that" which is also "this." His "that" has both a right and a wrong in it; his "this" too has both a right and a wrong in it. So, in fact, does he still have a "this" and "that"? Or does he in fact no longer have a "this" and "that"? A state in which "this" and "that" no longer find their opposites is called the hinge of the Way. When the hinge is fitted into the socket, it can respond endlessly. Its right then is a single endlessness and its wrong too is a single endlessness. So, I say, the best thing to use is clarity." Much of Chuang Tzu is on relative perspective of things.

Yes, but when this process is understood in its cyclical nature, the "First" ceases to have meaning. And it is said the the 10,000 things are at once the Tao itself, that the Yin and the Yang forms One, but by co-existence. In addition, the dependent nature of phenomena and relativity is clearly outlined in Chuang Tzu.

Hmmm? Interconnectedness is a valuable concept in Taoism. All things rise with the harmony of Yin and Yang, one cannot do without the other. And by result, we cannot say anything exists independently. All practices that build towers, build an entity, a God, a demon, or whatever, are bound to fall. So the path of Yoga is always conclude with that of tantra: effortless being.

It's not about the self existing or not. It's whether it exists independently, inherently, apart from phenomena.

We came to an understanding. And if there are two different interpretations, isn't it obvious to discuss and argue over which makes more sense? To reach an agreement?

Maybe the whole point is that they don't define it.