Lucky7Strikes

What do you mean by demonic?

Who here has studied Osho's teachings in depth? If anyone has, can you give an honest feedback?

This just feeds your head with useless thoughts. Go see for yourself.

No. But that's not the point of this discussion is it?

@ C T A similar exchange between us took place earlier didn't it? From a post you wrote: Problem is exactly this: people think there's so so (sooo) much to figure out. Actually, what 'things' are there to be figured out? In the process of dismantling and re-assembling one's head-mind so much precious time is lost. Just drop it, drop everything, a little each time, especially those ideas that lead one to believe that one is making progressive inroads and getting somewhere finally, a destination perhaps worthy of note, but its all nonsense. Go visit the terminally ill, speak with them, look into their eyes, hold hands with them, listen to how they breathe, and see what life is all about. Puts a lot of things into perspective. Then, if we are wise enough, we might learn a little about priorities, as well as how to sensitize oneself to face one's deepest fears, and then keep going at it, again and again and again, until death is finally understood. This is the only key to freedom -- not those ideas and concepts that need figuring out. So I asked you what you knew about death. To which you replied: That when it happens is extremely ambiguous. And also, those who focus too tight on getting healthy and staying healthy are the ones who get hit hardest when they realize time's up. Just recently, my sis-in-law was admitted to hospital for some condition undiagnosable by her GP. She is 27. Then, 2 days ago, a good friend, perfectly healthy 22-yr old law student, suddenly had an epileptic seizure. Talk about perspective. I'm ok with this. Your practice is dropping everything and you think figuring things out is nonsense, so letting things be is your practice and then a soothed mind. I genuinely think this is a great practice. But let's not kid ourselves and write "death is finally understood" (followed by..."death is extremely ambiguous"). Or the bardo states. Or the function of "clear light" in the bardo states. Or about little deaths or little bardos. Or about liberation (if by that you mean the buddhist sense of liberation from karmic rebirths). Or about this being the only key to freedom. What a grandiose statement to make!

No one is making "clear light" into anything. You brought it up. I've only noticed how you have made a fascination from that term linking it to a broader story of sorts involving words like bardos, liberation, little deaths, and so on. In fact, clear light was brought up because you spoke about its possible function in the so called "bardo" states, writing with some convictions as to what will happen in these states and that the only way to truly measure someone's spiritual progress was upon death. Is this an "observable fact" for you as it was for Xabir's Mahayana teacher? Or are they speculations learned from spiritual texts? I will not dismiss anything you say based on some teachings. That is opposite of what I'm trying to do here. But I will ask you to clarify what you know from experience and what you think you know but don't actually have a clue about except in others' words. BTW, as a small pointer amidst this, if you have experience of luminosity, then I'm surprised you asked where knowing is besides the head, because precisely luminosity is unfiltered knowing beyond the head.

In my opinion, and please correct me if I'm wrong, What you have here is dreamy nonsense strewn with spiritual jargon and "knowledge" compiled from here and there with very little direct experience. You have experiences with basic mindfulness exercise (that very well could lead you somewhere, I'm not saying it can't) but from it you have derived an entire story about bardos, clear light, the after-life, liberation, small liberation, small bardos, and more ridiculous fascinations. This is bad. This type of spirituality is everywhere in Western circles. The whole new age movement is basically wishful interpretations of spiritual ideas and over glorification of the mundane, and stems from the inability to distinguish what is belief/conjecture and what is true knowledge. And I am as guilty for doing this for a period of time with Xabir, Vaj, TCO, and others. But the taobums has been very watered down from the first time I joined because of this type of intellectual spirituality that gets us no where. Edit: I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit harsh, but a bit of straight talk instead of abstractions would be appreciated. Sectarianism arises because people begin to have a clash of beliefs and speculations instead of means to honestly examine what one knows and what one doesn't know. In this case, I really think you are unwilling to assess your own limitations.

Everything that happens at death? Have you gone through death beforehand to make comparisons with it to these "little deaths"? And has this "clear light" arisen in you? You seem to have so much knowledge about all this, yet I doubt you have experienced a small fraction of what you believe is supposed to happen. What you have here is a mindfulness exercise using the breath. What bigger things have these "small liberations" lead you to? More mindfulness? Ok. But let's not bullshit ourselves here. That's all you have, just being more mindful. It doesn't mean "little deaths" or some understanding of "everything that happens at death" or some supposed "clear light." You just believe it will get you there...how long have you been doing this? Has it gotten you any closer? (I'm surprised doing mindful practice makes you question where else "knowing" happens besides the head). Miniature bardo! Come. on. "Try it and see"....why don't you try it and see if suddenly "everything that happens at death" become apparent when breathing in and out. I believe your sense for poetics have clouded you from any practical understanding.

Yes, your Mahyana teacher didn't have to wait until death to find out, he just went ahead didn't he? It's not a theory for him. I think you are missing what I'm getting at. I'm not saying these experiences are unreal or just in books.

These are all textual knowledge. All beliefs. Hopeful beliefs. If at the point of death some other phenomena happens you'd be totally lost. Talk about a soothed mind! You have all this in your mind you are hoping will happen. What if it doesn't? Now your path is entirely dependent on an idea in your mind of the future.

Maybe...we'll all see what happens down the road. We're all a bit blind at this point.

Ok....so why can't it be seen without you/I right now instead of waiting until death?

Can you answer Simple Jack's question? I'm curious as well.

The siddhis simply show what he is capable of and how much he understands the realm beyond the body. Realization is a type of siddhi. But I'm more interested in what he knows besides his views on the nature of reality as of this moment. What does he know about his own being, and the material world, its energies, the after-life, etc. My guess is his knowledge is very much incomplete so he doesn't share anything in those terms.

And my point was why can't you see that now?

Yeah, I can't wait until I get hold of the intro to the new book where Kunlun is transmitted by an alien species or Egyptian priests and go :blink: . Lol. This time they can't really make the excuse that Chris did it, or that it was for marketing. I'll definitely post my reactions.

Of course.

Yeah. And that's what I think of your soothed mind.

Oh really? Btw, I'm not using mind as Mind, or some over encompassing awareness. If you are going to say mind is everything, then the word is no longer meaningful I'm using mind as your analytical mind, the brain to be more specific, the linguistic mind. C T said "head."

You asked me where else knowing occurs. So I gave three examples.

Yes, so the system and the teacher you choose to adopt for such occasions is important. As for do-it-yourself retreats, my guess is that only applies when you are certain a technique will require that much focus and intensity to be accomplished. But that requires confidence about the instructions.

Sure there is. Ignorance can be bliss. Until it isn't.

Your body has its knowledge. Your body knows in fact much more than your do about how to operate itself. If you get on a bike your body knows how to ride it without your head going step by step how to operate it. Whether you are conscious of that or not is your choice. Your energies have their knowledge and patterns. You can see how it reverts to its knowledge when you interact with others or when you begin to become more conscious of your energetic patterns. Strong sensations such as lust come from an energetic movement more than your head. People who are not as aware of this aspect attribute it as intuition. So does your emotions and feelings. They carry memories and knowledge of their own to function. You saying that knowing is in your head is probably a big problem in itself because you have only seen that dimension of yourself. Your being has tremendous layers to it that's unexplored. The head is just a part of what constitutes your experience.

Yeah, unfortunately I don't have the means to do one at the moment like you pointed out. And to do a retreat like that...I don't have enough knowledge or trust in a certain teacher/system to do it. I mean there have been instances even in daily practice where I'm freaking out because I don't know what my body and energies are going through and there isn't anyone to guide me. Around a year ago I had a tremendous breakthrough but couldn't handle what I was going through so after about two to three weeks of being out of my mind I crashed badly. But as a foundation a three year retreat I'm sure will be more than adequate.

...Are you really just limited to your mental constitution? Do motives only come in my head? Isn' there a motive to my body, my energies, my life? Our aliveness/inquiry is much more immediate than a mere passing thought isn't it? That's right, turmoil and conflict go beyond language and the mind. What is there beyond knowing? Feeling? A soothed mind? Knowing isn't just in the head. A soothed mind in ignorance is a false safety. Fall from a building and it's euphoric until you hit the ground.