Lucky7Strikes

Hmm, this thread has jacked itself off to the max... . It's good seeing people really invest themselves to these questions. Too often I find myself amongst people who have no idea where to turn to. . Haha, as Marble says, Be Well!

In defense of the Kunlun forum, not many new practices were given. I think there was really one major practice and other methods were more like grounding techniques and remedies for people over doing things. Max also gave several tips on having the right attitude through the practices. And I completely agree that the discovery is entirely your own. Satori is just doing his own thing too in a way. As for all the other races...well COOL!! It'll be like a talking dolphin visiting you for a cup of tea or a new found insect species appearing at your doorstep. It's just cool like that I guess. .

Ah, see you don't agree with those schools. So much for a clear path. Oh it's so clear...to you... This is how religious bigotry happens. Common people are nice to each other because they view others as others. You don't have to be a Buddhist to be the virtue and compassion that it preaches. Ask Jesus. Reading Ramana is incredibly confusing. People just puts quotes from him said years apart on a 'similar' topic. But that's...irrelevant.. . Self-inquiry is how it all starts and what motivates the seeker through and through for the Truth. The potentials and means to realization are infinite and unique according to every individual. The Path is not an imitation. Investing in a guide probably has more pitfalls than going through the forest yourself. I mean there are literally too many example of where the teacher/disciple relationship has gone wrong. It's great that you found a teacher who you believe is a great master. But I wouldn't advocate that this is THE way, the 99% way, to Realization. As for the whole violence thing, Tibet is not without its own shady past, Buddhism didn't end violence in the East. Haha, I learned a lot from you bro and others in the forum, we're trading, learning, representing ideas here .

Well, There are countless sects, schools, sub-schools in Buddhism that all interpret the doctrines differently. Buddhism isn't such a clear cut Path and the its philosophies and contradictions are innumerable. And, surprise! there is worship in Buddhism and all the traces of Theist traditions. The most non violent...only compared to few other major religions (statistically maybe?). But that's irrelevant. The refined bliss body through merit...sounds like good old compassion to me. 4 Noble Truths and the Eight Noble paths are all good, but as you said, they can be realized personally without a labeled direction. And the interpretations of them are many. I personally believe that self-inquiry and contemplation can get you to the understanding of the Truth (at least conceptually) without a teacher showing up to tell you that there are alternatives. A true questioner wouldn't stop at the source of I Am because it would never explain fully the cause of your existence or a supposed God. Even in Taoism, the very held belief that the human body and the near-world is a miscrocosmic representation of the workings of the Universe can get you there. Perhaps science will get there as well as it is approaching newer concepts of duality, dimensions, interdependence and consciousness these days.

They do...maybe the length of the fingers are different... They all lead up to the same mountaintop. The world does not hold its Truth because of Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. What you call the dharma here may not be presented the way it is in other realms. You yourself wouldn't have understood the depth of Shunyata as you do now if it wasn't for all your experiences studying Vedanta. And it doesn't even have to be understood theoretically. The theories are only based on experiences or else they will just be intellectual musings. A The mind can grasp at all these concepts and ideas but realization comes through various means. You can label emptiness as emptiness and emptiness as self and emptiness as Brahma or whatever. It is the understanding and total grasping of that Truth that is important. Call it what you will. A being can reach the Truth in anyway without the teachings because he himself is a proof, an evidence, of that existence. It doesn't have to be Buddhism in any way whatsoever. I'm sure Buddha didn't just sit there and go.."hmm...what if...(as I do)"

He thinks enlightenment is easy as 1,2,3 and is willing to lead any hard working disciple... Why would he stick around and contribute for the good of everyone here?

Wow. It is true that the wise can sum up all the books and sutras into a single sentence. That was awesome. .

Dwai I agree that they all point to the same moon. So why not contemplate what Shunyata truly means? I really didn't get it fully until Xabir showed me Indra's jewel (oh and VH's endless rants... ). It really comes down to the simple fact that we can observe in our daily lives. There are people around you and they all hold their subjective realities as you do yourself. And these subjective realities account for your own existence as you do for others. Even God exists in relation to your existence. Not one, and not two either. IMHO, the interdependent nature of the existence of the "Self" is only very subtle in Vedanta in phrases like "God exists, but there is only the Self that is your pure consciousness as it is...that by God's grace that I am...I am God" or something like that.

Definitely! I attribute it to the chicken, the egg, -o-, and of course, Santiago....

2 cents... I've done AYP meditation with other energetic practices without a problem. I'm not sure what you mean by process/ground the stillness. The stillness lets the energy do its own thing which is usually grounding itself. You don't have to take the mantra either. That's just so the mind won't drift into its rising thoughts. After a while, just observe the scenery as the body resets itself and filters things out on its own.

It's realizing that the Self is created interdependent to all the other consciousness luminous realities including that of God, a cockroach, or whatever. They are all in you and you are in them in the form of a reflection that lacks an inherent existence on to itself. There is a "I Am" only BECAUSE it is dependently originated. You are absolutely right that without consciousness nothing exists. And that consciousness cannot be without being dependent on other luminous Selves. Your understanding of the Vedas is also incorrect in continuously asserting that there is an "underlying" thing called the Self. It is not underlying, but it is the only existence that is, as even objectless consciousness is an existence. Ramana Maharshi often declared that meditation into various states was not the way to realize the Self. Only switching your perspective on what you truly are can make the Self "apparent" as it has always been as always is even your ignorance, sins, joys, etc. Only after that realization can meditation have fruit, for if you meditate from the perspective of an imagined ego, you'll just chase your tail around! .

I'm not sure I understood your entire post, but my experiences sound somewhat similar... I noticed that the "clearing" happens in cycles. It amplifies the drama and makes the ego more sensitive to events and happenings. It's as if the practice is stripping away the identity it has compounded throughout our life. But that sensitivity gives rise to motivation and a new sense of structure and repeats the cycle. It is as if the energy clears up and needing to hold on to a form of awareness within the body, discriminating the new experiences to form a greater "self." This stopped for me when I stopped holding a sense of an "I" clearing up itself against the outside world. It is important to let that energy spread into not just your body, but also to the world that you inhibit (which is not different from your Self). One must give, give, and give as you go down more on the Path. Virtue and compassion must be integrated.

That light shines to due its interdependence on other "lights" There is no self inherent light. It is a light without a source. A mere reflection. Identification with that light will lead you to go into the creation cycle, where in all dissolves into that light and back out again as creation. One must go beyond this. God is because of you and you are because of God.

Xabir, Am I on the right track to thinking that even this Awareness, the pure "percept" you speak of is dependently originated by other "universes/mindstreams/Awareness"?

Because if I was the only consciousness there was, it would go against the very idea of the existence of others. You are attached to the states believing that they lead you closer to realizing the Awareness which you are of now. That is the Self. It cannot be attained, but only realized.

The universe that is the "I" yet exists only in relation to the various other planes of existences and consciousness creations. Hence I guess you could say that my own existence is empty... But the scripture do talk about how one only IS because of God's every present grace. I sleep. I think that's enough. Don't you know the tale of the Yogi who went into Turiya desiring water, only to come out of that state calling for water while being immersed in a flood? .

I still don't think you understand what the Self is. It is phenomena. That Consciousness is not devoid of objects but IS the objects themselves. It is not local anywhere because Awareness is the only thing that exists. Your confusing various states of that awareness with the very nature of Awareness that shines always as reality itself. You are misinterpreting the words "it simply "is"" to point to something else then...what truly "is." If you think meditation will "get" you there, you aren't meditating right. You're furthering the delusional ego's attempt to carry you somewhere. Meditation is a cure of the ignorant habit energies you have gathered for eons thinking that there was a separate "you" or an awareness experiencing an objective world.

Ok um, reading this post...I think you have misunderstood Atman/the Self or whatever. It is not beyond concepts, it IS the concepts. If you peel away all object phenomenon, well maybe you'll be left with that "state" of awareness alone (if you go deaf there is the state of deafness), but really all there ever was was that Awareness (note: capitalized). Awareness is not a separate thing. It IS the rising phenomena. Isn't there a quote that goes something like "there IS no God, God IS" (you might be the one who typed it). BTW, I am more inclined to agree that Hinduism and Buddhism actually do point to the same moon. So you have a convert here... . But then again, I have not fully understood what is meant by 'total extinction' in Buddhism, as I cannot fathom whether it is even possible for Awareness to extinguish itself by any means...

Ok so they exist as wavelength according to the eye's perception... But then who perceives the eye for it to exist not as a wavelength or a probability but a definite thing... And who perceives that? The very fact that reality "changes" and is dependent on the observer just messes everything up since the observer is not exempt from the rules of reality.

Yes the dharma, the one law, change, relativity doesn't change. But what is that law without the perciever or phenomena? The physics can't exist when there is no one there to observe it. Does that mean the Buddha is immortal because he has directly perceived the change? Has rather become it than be subject to it? And that everyone else really is an immortal too but "dies" because he/she identifies with the object of change? Hmm, a traditional Theravadian (?) would slap you up side the head

This is really interesting. The endless cycling and the multiple simultaneous dimensions according to each planes of consciousness creation... The actualization of all "probabilities" of existence...a dream with out the dreamer...argh! Can the endless cycling be broken? Or are we to only realize it in order to be free from it... Haha, I think it is leading me to insanity... .....

Some day someone should gather up all this and write a book on it. Maybe make up a fictional character and follow him down. Reptilians, aliens, illusions, ghosts, Yoda, light body, the drama, the dimensions, the bums, enlightenment, valley orgasms, wisdom, ego, spirit travel, witches, wizards, the bliss and the tragedy... All in the making of the modern immortal... ... Well I'd watch the movie at least... I think the message is simple but a difficult one to digest: Take the practice and go down your own path. Make it your own and not the teacher's. I now see why Max often points this out with the fact that the practices are ancient ones and not of his own discovery. It's a manual, a tool. But since it is so new and extraordinary compared to what we are used to in the Western mindset, there can be an immediate desire to cling to the teachers who have "given" these practices.

I do not believe that that pure awareness, presence, etc as written by Thusness and several other so-called modern enlightened masters is the final stage of liberation. It is only a liberation of view point. One has simply seen what he/she has been all along, accepting the rising and falling of all myriad things, and how this world phenomena has occurred due to one's own illuminating light. I have just found out what I am....uh ok... I see this stage as the creator (you) becoming one with his or her own creation (the world). Even being infatuated with it. You (creating consciousness) have just come full circle into the origin of creation which in itself is illusory, only to create again and again and identify with the creation and thereby falling into samsara. This is more the case since is not only one sentient reality but countless ones. Interconnectedness and Karma will just cycle through as the various planes of existence influence one another. I'm just browsing these ideas and not at all certain about them....