Lucky7Strikes

Good theoretical investigations. Nice word plays. But it could be that you're just babbling through those gate as well. Who is it that questions? . Acceptance...that's a tricky word.

There are no two "types" of selves. It is just the subjective experience you call the "self." The "first" self you speak of can teach itself, because it is part of the experience of a latter self as well. An illusion can teach illusion about illusion, because all there is is illusion. That is why people call it "self-awareness." Yes people attain enlightenment. This "no one attains enlightenment" is only from the perspective of seeing that there is no longer a sense of individual within that person. This is only logically judged from the popularly conceived notion of an individual, and NOT the correct notion of attaining enlightenment. So to take this statement and say "oh there is no way for a person to become enlightened" is to be misinterpreting the notion of anatta.

Well yes, the physical body may be the cause of ignorance, but I might still want that ice cream. Craving can be much more than being hungry and going to get food, But it could be as simple as that. Isn't that how a mental formation is created? Pure Vision while having a body...I agree that that's a state one can only assume... unless you're a Buddha . Cool! This should really be posted on posts where people come here with problems with wet dreams or doing finger locks. Visualization methods are very much underrated by practitioners today. People tend to think they are imaginary, too religious, or something in that line. It's good to try to "feel" the energy itself, but these methods can be incredibly effective. Ancient Mao Shan texts value visualization techniques as a "bridge" to carry the adept to higher realms. I also speak from experience after failing a bunch of times with trying to mentally force the energy to places. Not a good idea!

I agree that the questioning of the doer is an effective means of investigation. But do all attachments and cravings arise because of the sense "I"? To put it in a more practical sense, let's say I want ice cream. And I know it isn't good for me. But my body craves it. Will the mind questioning "who is this "I" that wants ice cream?" divert the body's conditioned love for ice cream? Especially within that precise moment at which the desire arises? I think not. (Haha, and I KNOW not ) The "I" might not be there, but the body has its natural desires that are conditioned. A "mental formation" if you will. Generally, desires are rooted deep in one's self yet too subtle to be noticed until they surface during our daily interactions. A moralistic dogma can be a great veil of a man's hidden longings (see Confucius in Chuang Tzu). But when the "I" and attachments ("mental formations") are destroyed, would a desire truly be a desire? Perhaps not. I find that to truly carry this out in practice is indeed difficult, because the ideas of suppression, manipulation, and change are all mental formations themselves. Even the 12 links of dependent origination is a mental formation. Maybe it is the right approach to let the mind wander its own musings until it has burned out....

Yup, This is also a big part of desire: Habit. Habit can be seen as an aspect of desire, but is really an attachment at its core. It arises from the tendency to define, organize, and distinguish experiences. And so judgments, concepts, and suffering arise. Hmm...perhaps the sense of security, even though false, is what really drives ignorance.

Vajrahridaya, is that like internalizing your desires so that it is "fulfilled" without external exertion of any sorts? Reminds me of visualization of union with a dakini. Marble, I think what you're saying is much easily said than done, especially when living within society. Getting "rid of" artificial desires and realizing one's own nature sounds great, but I think the path that people take to control and repress their innate yearnings for the sake of doctrine can really mess them up. IMHO, "repressing" should be done through understanding of why desires cause suffering in the first place.

I think that it means that to affirm it in any way is to lose its essence. Right understanding is therefore no understanding. Right, so to try to define a cause over and over again is not the Way. Just like the viewless view of Buddhism, the Tao that can be grasped is therefore not the Tao. . Just as a coincidence, I'm reading this passage from Zen master Soho on being a Samurai...and fighting ten enemies at once... "The effort not to stop the mind in just one place, this is discipline. Not stopping the mind is object and essence. Put nowhere, it will be everywhere. Even in moving the mind outside the body, if it is sent in one direction, it will be lacking in nine others. If the mind is not restricted to just one direction, it will be in all ten...the Right Mind is the mind that does not remain in one place."

Just as a relevant post to the thread... One of those rare beings must've included Master Chuang: "Everything is "that" in relation to other things and "this" in relation to itself...Therefore, it may be said that "that" derives from the standpoint of "this" and that "this" is dependent upon "that"...Every affirmation is a denial of something else, and every denial is an affirmation of something else. "This" and "that" are mutually dependent...For this reason, the sage does not subscribe to, but sees things in the light of nature, accepting "this" for what it is. It is all a result of their understanding the mutual dependence of "this" and "that." To have achieved this understanding but not be conscious of why it is so is called "The Way.""

Ah, so you know the love has to be transcended! And that a true "teacher" is like an assistant who let's you learn from the "grand teacher" called life! And how the Buddha said in the Kalama Sutta how one must even doubt the teachings of the Buddha if it lacks virtue! Oh ok I see you now!

Same here. And, Samsara is my guru. And I plan to destroy it. . No one's saying there is no merit to learning from teachers. That conditioning itself is empty, so you can't really say you are a collection of what you have received from endless selves. So it's not a question of whether your individuality exists or not. To deny or affirm it, I believe, is to miss the point. Why should I cry for the Shepard who has merely done his duty?. If I were Him, I'd think it odd too. . This is what I see with you Vajrayana, Attachments...value... Which leads to suffering...frustration...anger...(you know what comes next!) Where the Yoda at?

I have nothing against teachers and I myself want to learn from wise masters. But I don't think I need a teacher to tell me I have no value than the dust of the floor I walk on. I can just go strolling in the graveyard for that. And if I had to choose, I'd rather meditate among the tombstones than have some guy tell me that life is impermanent. Ultimately the two ways of learning are not at all different. Why, why, why is so much importance placed upon a single guru? It shouldn't be so. BTW, I think the insults are fine. No one gives a damn about whose ass is royal or not! .

Samsara is not a good guide? Buddhism says that? Really? Really...?

Krishnamurti's message was simple... LISTEN! OBSERVE! THINK! His teaching is not impractical. He urged people to break through the conditioned mind and to always question. But when one has abandoned the true guru within himself.... The beauty of Taoism is not in following the "natural" ways, but letting nature and the existent condition be the ultimate guide. The sutras, scriptures, gurus, etc. are all secondary sources.

I really think the whole preserving Jing thing is pointless when one's energy is directed outwards through desires and external attachments. I mean, your body is constantly interacting with the environment. Unless you think you can physically spread semen throughout the body, which would be pretty damn gross and impossible , you should know that the the essence is NOT semen itself. I'm not saying those exercises do not help, (check out cloud and rain technique on Trunk's site), but without rewiring the mind, your body and intent will be crashing into each other...hence oppression...hence stagnant qi flow...and then...the dark side..

BAH! These arguments are incredibly fruitless. Some are meant to carry on the tradition, and others are meant to go their own paths. Aren't you on the Taobums to learn as well? Vajrahridaya, where do you study in New York City? At "Kundrolling"? Perhaps I'll visit when I feel I am ready.

Xeno, weren't you going to write an epic summary of jing cultivation and CCO for the bums? Maybe you should do a comprehensive summary rather than christoff...

Well when you write so much about it (D.O.) repetitively, one has to guess that you are attached to the theory. I guess it's really hard to convey an attitude through written words in this case. Haha, your ego is a great type of guy...so says your other ego... Humbling yourself to a great teacher...hmm...sounds dangerous! "New age" has its pitfalls, but IMHO you shouldn't get so caught up in tradition. Perhaps the vajrayana school has had its masters...but what school doesn't? And master of what? Their own sect? Figures... I didn't mean to say one shouldn't study under a teacher. But the world does need people to carry tradition on I guess...

True that. It'll still hurt when you get hit. .

My 2 cents... Karma is an illusion. Just like you sitting there...so a very real one. The cycle of cause and effect itself is also an illusion. Although it "happens." As long as you are stuck in the delusional realm of karma, you will reap the benefits. And, No method is also a method. It's just a matter of perspective. You mentioned that you have a book on Buddhism but not one of a primary source...does that mean you've never actually read what the Buddha taught? Just curious....

A lot of cleansing! Nice! God will end the homosexual community in 1995...kekekke.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwNdHJozu98...feature=related

People have shared their experiences here without getting too bashed. And some of it has been great contributions. But I've only been reading the past year, so I don't reeeealllly know the full history. BTW, I really appreciated that you shared your experiences. *Bows But sharing experiences doesn't necessarily mean that you post/talk about certain meditative states you had and so forth. The content of what the person says and the way he conducts himself (even though this is an online forum ) is what really shows the amount of wisdom he/she has attained. I personally find it odd that you dove yourself very deeply into Hinduism and then "converted" to Buddhism. I don't think any true seeker should belong to a particular sect or a religion nowadays, especially when so much of the original teachings have been muddled. I mean, isn't it good to be a bum? Haha, it is also human nature to act high and noble by pointing out others' so called "human nature" . And the visualized sword shouldn't only cut the Hindu deities, but the Buddha as well.

It's often mentioned that one should cultivate every living moment. I believe this is especially important today since we all live in a very busy age. IMHO, there are different "methods" in cultivation, like sitting meditation, qigong, tai chi, and yoga. And a basic ground for cultivation like virtuous intent, mindfulness, and so on. Which can be said to be the same thing really. I'm curious on how people go about doing this. I, for example, while standing in line would do Yogani's spinal breathing or lower dan tien breathing. When conversing with someone, rather than thinking that the other person is speaking to me, I'd try to see that we are speaking with each other. When a distressing thought comes up, I'd trace its roots. Etc etc. Oh yea, when I do have time, I would definitely do sitting meditation or other energetic practices.

Cultivation doesn't have to involve crystallization, light, or opening up to call it rightful cultivation. Don't get me wrong, I also think they are great milestones. The greater changes within happen most subtly. They are almost unnoticeable, because your whole being and outlook is transformed. There is no "you" of the past to judge it according to past principles. Ordinary mind is the Tao...isn't that how it goes? Haha...maybe I've been reading too much about wandering Zen monks. .

I'm sorry if I offended you. Zen Buddhists hold koans too. I guess it really depends on how one understands such phrases. .