Sahaja

Thanks. Interesting to look at the various you tube videos showing TRE therapies and compare it to ZFG. Would be interesting to expose these TRE therapists to people having zi fa gong to get their take on it. They might find some of the manifestations a little weird and some of the causative factors to be outside their paradigm but they also might see some things that seem familiar and related to their knowledge set.

Read the study. Thank you for sharing. Thought it was good. - I think they ought to expand it to include more qigong/neigong energy practitioners. I think the somatic energy experiences in these practices (including many with physical, observable effects like zi fa gong) are a bit more common than in just straight meditation. I think these traditions also seem to have more knowledge of them as in why they happen and how to respond due to the fact that they work directly with these energies in their practices. Not a new topic in Buddhist meditation. I have been reading a translation of a 5th century Chan Buddhist text by Eric Greene called Secret Essentials for Curing Meditation Sickness that was referenced in the study.. Interesting to see this topic addressed in such an old text, particularly things that sound a lot like zi fa gong with the Buddha giving answers to Sariputra on what to do when they arise. Might be a good reference book for those going on long vipissana retreats particularly if you have an instructor that says these energy manifestations are not part of their tradition!

Is the twisty bit the human being (between heaven and earth) or is it that heaven is the part holding the food?

For me my practice has been very rewarding and healing and even a bit surprising at times. I hope that yours is the same for you.

I haven’t been practicing consistently that long but here is what I have found so far to be the most beneficial from a self cultivation perspective (medical might be different IDK) - Suggest you find someone who teaches the foundations - a lot of standing practice hanging flesh off the bones (bones up flesh down) , a lot of sitting practice learning to keep the attention stabilized, how to open laogong and yongquan, ldt and reverse breathing, how to relax and release muscle tension, how to sink the mind and soak the awareness into the body and how to use your attention/awareness to support the process without too much intention/agenda. It’s been my experience that if these foundations (and a number of others) are in place then whatever else you practice - qi gong or internal/external martial arts or yoga - will be a different experience - learning the foundations well , in my opinion, is more important than which set of practices you choose. In fact once foundations are in place your own qi may even give you feedback on the efficacy of different static and moving sets as well as even how to practice them - if you listen! my opinion based on my limited experience - subject to change as I learn more.

Sorry this guy upsets you so much.

Yes I have as well. Thank you for making it available. Not sure the translation always gives a clear meaning but I recognize as familiar a good deal of it. I am curious about what blue stone means. Was reading an old text - Netra Tantra - recently and came across a Sanskrit term “Spandanam” self arising vibration that was also called by the translator(and I think a later commentator -Ksmeraja - as spontaneously arising vibration in the chapter on subtle body yoga. It reminded me of zi fa gong. Given your comments on spontaneous gong I thought you might find this interesting. 是的，我也有。谢谢你提供它。不确定翻译是否总是有明确的含义，但我知道它很熟悉。我很好奇蓝石是什么意思。 最近在阅读一个旧文本-Netra Tantra-，遇到了一个梵语术语“Spandanam”自我产生的振动，翻译也称之为（我认为后来的评论员-Ksmeraja-在关于微妙身体瑜伽的一章中自发产生的振动。这让我想起了zi fa gong。鉴于你对自发功的评论，我想你可能会觉得这很有趣。

I recently read a description of kundalini as the creative power of Siva after I posted the note above. Interesting parallel.

https://yogicheritage.myfreesites.net/articles/sixteen-adharas-application-and-effects the siddha siddhanta Paddhati, a key Nath Yoga text, says to chant Aum while meditating on nabhi. Note that some more meaning behind this when using the Sanskrit and dealing with the kalas of the moon. The Naths are considered by many the founders of hatha yoga.

Here are the marmas for reference. http://www.edkishtur.com/yoga-articles/2016/4/10/-the-108-marmas-vital-junction-points-

i am familiar with the 108 marmas but not the secondary or tertiary chakras you mention. Is there a textual source for these? Thanks.

Qi for me is not subtle at all and feels more like currents of water moving than breath. I find that it is actually more constant as a point of focus than the breath because it doesn’t seem to automatically have long pauses like the breath does when actions of the mind and body slow down. Qi movement is more machine like for me.

In The lineage of yoga I have followed there is something called the 16 kalas or phases of the moon. On each day during the month the energy is in a different “adhara” of the body (big toe to top of head and back down again) and based on which area the moon energy is in, different practices are recommended to take full advantage of that energy. On full moon day the energy is in the Brahmarandhradhara (top-of-head)and it’s at its strongest. Because of this strong energy, caution is recommended on the full moon to avoid injury (particularly physical practices). Whatever you do will have more juice behind it on full moon to the point you might not realize or be in a position to control its effects. Easy to get injured that day because of this. This topic is covered in the Siddha-Siddhanta_paddhati (Nath Yoga text that lists them and some very limited info for how to work with them). I think It’s also referred to in Tirumantaram (without much detail ) as Chandra yoga. My knowledge on the Daoist side is more limited. Having said that I did once see a document from a Daoist source that showed the phases of the moon correlated with points on the ren and the du channels that seemed quite similar. In this version full moon was also at the top of the head. I thought that similarity (and some of the other points) was quite interesting. Just noticed it’s the same in the document Wilhelm posted above (assume the unshaded moon above the head is the full moon) The Daoist document I was referring to was not the same as posted above but seems like the same idea. Sorry I missed it.

I don’t know whether this is the best definition but I liked it when I read it ‘De is the creative power of the Dao (the natural Way), which engenders, nurtures, and perfects the world. ‘ i agree it requires wu Wei and likely wu Zhi as well. Kindness too and definitely humility

Seems there is theoretical discussion of Ming to Xing or Xing to Ming but whenever it gets to discussion of application seems the two influence each other in such fundamental ways that making the differentiation seems more of an academic framework than a practical guide. The other comment I’d make is it seems to me that the concept of wu Wei (and the other wu concepts) are a pretty important underpinning to what Damo is saying in the video yet I haven’t really heard them spoken directly to. Would seem to me these concepts are the basis of all of this, including ting, song, the ba men energies etc. everytime I write something here I feel like I am setting myself up to be wrong when I know more but hopefully where I am (at the beginning) I can still contribute in someway to the discussion. Thanks for your patience while I try to catch up.

About 12 years back I was repeating a mantra silently as a yogic meditative, concentration exercise. Sometimes this practice would make me sleepy, and I was at that point between being awake and falling asleep where dream type images arise and mix with wakeful consciousness where your wakeful mind identifies the images as unreal, dream images and says, - hey you’re starting to fall asleep again come back to the mantra. All of a sudden something different arose that was not like the dream images - a female presence who looked like images I had seen of Kuan Yin. I don’t recall any words transmitted only feelings. It just made me smile and feel good. It was a feminine presence that primarily conveyed a sense of loving kindness and compassion but there was even a small portion of it containing a feeling of sensuality as well. For a long time after this anytime I saw a picture of Kuan Yin or thought of an image of her I would get the same pleasant smiling experience that would make me thankful for the experience and feel a sense of compassion towards others. Over the years since, this sense when viewing or remembering her image has faded. The mantra I was doing at the time was a Sanskrit yogic bija mantra (not a Buddhist mantra or dharani ). I was not looking for any experience like this at the time and really have no religious or cultural background to explain this experience. The recurring pleasant feelings when seeing her image did not involve practicing the mantra or meditation just viewing or remembering her image. Curious whether this type of experience has any context within Buddhism that would help me understand it or put it into perspective.

There is an interesting piece written on this called “the wu and the shamen” by Gilles Boileau of Tamkang University on Academia.com that looked at historical writings and inscriptions from Shang and Zhou periods and compared it to studies on the role of the Siberian shamen. . His conclusion was that the Wu had a different, narrower , more negatively viewed role in society than shamans had in hunter gatherer society so shamen should probably not be used as a direct translation for wu.

Definitely feel nice from the chi, even at my beginner level. Nicer still when it shows externally as kindness and service. Sad to see so many obsessed with phenomena hunting or the most perfect system/teacher when they could redirect that energy and find something much closer by that is still worthwhile. Like the perfect being the enemy of the good.

it is interesting how when the awareness sinks from the head to the lower abdomen how the tissues/body moves/reacts when it arrives there. I am sure I am far from using ting effectively but even from a novice perspective I can see the efficacy of the practice. The fact that my first physical experience of this phenomena was before I’d heard about ting or the sinking practice sort of reinforces this for me too.

While I believe there are things in yoga and martial arts (such as bagua) that have their source in spontaneous gong, from my experience there is also a lot of random noise in there as well particularly with verbal utterance. From a tantric yoga perspective the power of mantras is very deep and a fundamental part of the universe creation/maintenance/destruction cycle. The verbal utterance is only the 4th most gross level of the mantra’s manifestation. I would advise some caution in automatically equating spontaneous verbal utterances with something so deep and profound.

I agree. sensations in the fingers are not important but when their movement stretches the tissue deep inside near the central channel area I think there are some benefits that are difficult to access and target through conventional stretching.

i don’t think so but I can see how the comparison could be made.

A lot of people mistake experiences with Yang chi for kundalini. Yang chi manifestations are pretty common. Kundalini …hmm.

The way it’s been described to me is that the tongue in the inverted position closes off the throat allowing the Amrta to flow directly to the bottom of the mouth at the root of the tongue where there are three subtle channels that suck up the essence of the fluids. The khecari mudra is central to the Nath process of “internal alchemy”. There is a lot more to it than just the amrta cycle or even just khecari mudra, of course. There is a new book available on Amazon that goes into quite a bit of detail on the overall Nath process called the Taranyali Tridha Dhyanam byShandor Remete. Due to the level of detail included I would think it would be an interesting reference book for those involved in Neidan to give them another perspective on self cultivation from an old tradition (Kanphata Naths)

It’s interesting that in the tantric yoga tradition cultivation of the Amrita cycle is associated with khecari and avoiding losing its benefits (by consumption by digestive Agni) due to the inverted position of the tongue (position of tongue behind nasal passages both stimulates production and conserves it). In the nd traditions seems like same fluid/source but no apparent concern about losing its benefits through the digestive process. Interesting conundrum. Perhaps beyond my pay grade to understand.