Sahaja

Curious why the “zi” in zi fa gong is translated to English as Spontaneous (without external stimulus or cause). Based on my experience with it the last two years a more accurate translation of zi would be “naturally arising”or “issued from the self”. For me it usually arises after I take an action - for example the spinal wave starts when I sit up straight opening Ming men - whether I am intending to create the wave our not, it happens. The turning of magnetic energy in the abdomen (counterclockwise horizontally or up back and down front ) starts when I stretch open my palms or use a hand mudra while sitting with Ming men open The bouncing in the body in standing practice gets triggered when I actively drop the pelvis (or even gently touch the abdomen or sacrum with my awareness)I initially discovered a number of these relationships through trial and error as I didn’t have a teacher at that time that was familiar with them and my initial experience came in a yoga class where I was the only one having this experience. At the time I was not seeking nor really aware of this phenomena and was genuinely surprised by it. Since then I found a great teacher who is familiar with it and what I have learned has reinforced these relationships (as well as shown me more) I have also now seen others experiencing similar movements (presumably with similar triggers) For me zi fa gong has been like a teacher. It initially showed me many of these relationships and now provides a feedback loop during practice about whether I am applying the practice principles. It can even get triggered while doing asana if I approach them in a specific way. Having googled electromagnetic energy I found some basic physics diagrams explaining counterclockwise energy movement as well as up down energy movement having to do with north south polarity and the existence of an electromagnetic concept called a solenoid. Very interesting how the solenoid looks a little like representations of the spine or sushumna or central channel or a caduceus I have seen. North and south magnetic poles seem alot like the energy centers at the top of the head and at the perineum in both Hindu yoga and Daoist systems . I am sure I am oversimplifying all this but it’s interesting connection to the zi fa gong movements I’ve experienced and helps me to make sense of it. It also ties in with the definition of zi as naturally arising or arising from the self (from our inherent bio electro magnetic fields). while I believe that both Hindu and Daoist systems go much deeper than this I think this may provide a reasonable model at least at a superficial level.

The matricka sounds found on the chakra petals (used in antar matricka Nyasa practice) are also manifest “externally” on different parts of the body in a related way called bahir matricka Nyasa. This may be interesting for you to explore relative to the Chinese meridian systems as well as to your meditation practice, if you have not already been exposed to the bahir method. Just search on your computer for “Nyasa” or “matricka Nyasa” or “bahir matricka Nyasa” and you can find the lists showing the matricka to external body part correlation. If you have access to the Scribd app there are also additional examples (including a couple of charts that also includes additional mantras associate with sections of the body). It’s an impressive chart but it’s kind of busy to use. You can also look at the chart of marmas to see if this resonates with your practice - marmas are from the Indian martial arts and health systems and have many similarities to the Chinese point systems. My own experience has shown me that South Asian and East Asian systems have many similarities but also there are some important differences that can be confusing when viewed or used together. Even within East Asian systems there are differences. Maps are not the territory. Cheers!

Interesting to see all the energy in the comments about spontaneous movement. My understanding and experience of it Is that it’s a natural consequence of internal work and relatively simple to trigger. I am surprised it’s not more in the public sphere. When I first experienced it I didnt realize how common it was (or that it had a name) and I didn’t have a teacher available that could explain it in any specific way or help me navigate it. On the plus side this did allow me to experience it without many preconceived ideas about it. I can see where it excites people when they initially experience this and I can see how it would be possible for a misinformed or abusive teacher to take advantage of this. I can also see how someone could become habituated to it and not let go of it when the time comes. Personally I think the secrecy/lack of information/lack of proper context around it actually makes these errors and abuses more likely. Based on my experience of it I can see where it can be a useful tool in the early stages of the training process. It can make the training much more tangible, more real. For me it got me to search for new training to help me better understand it and it gave direct feedback on my posture, use of awareness, sinking, use of mudras/hand positions , breathing, etc.that turned out to be quite useful and reinforcing. Perhaps my experience of it has been more positive or more benign than others - all the more reason for more openness and information to be made available on this topic.

It’s a hatha yoga style. There is a book on it called Shadow Yoga Chaya Yoga by Shandor Remete and a documentary movie called Agniyogana.

Thanks for sharing these. Video number 9 (lesser MCO) provides a very good description of an experience that arose unexpectedly some time ago in my shadow yoga practice and now generally shows up whenever I sit still with my back straight. While there are a number of things in common between what is presented in these videos and what is in my yoga practice, the MCO is not a specific quality sought in yoga as far as I am aware. I’ll have to ponder this a bit to understand what it’s message for me is.

Thank you. Do you know which texts originally used this term? Seems like this definition is out there on the web but I couldn’t find any reference to a source text nor timeframe of original usage.

Came across a term called Huan-Ching in a paper I was reading but there was no reference associated with it. The full quote in the paper was “The yogic technique China sent back to India is called huan-ching, or “making the Yellow River flow backwards” Anyone out there familiar with this term and what it’s provenance (text/author/timeframe) is? I am interested to read more about it. Thank you

Found some contacts for good teachers and practices that helped me reconnect with what I had learned many years ago in martial arts and to explore some automatic/spontaneous movement I experienced in my current yoga practice.

I am new to TDB. Interests are in self cultivation from both South Asian and East Asian perspectives. Introduced to external and internal martial arts as a young man in a traditional setting 40 plus years ago. Last 15 years have been also doing shadow yoga and nrtta as well as some kriya. In the last year or two have been adding additional forms such as Yigong, Wu bagua, some GMDW forms to my practice along with revisiting the martial arts I learned 40 years ago. I feel I get something different and important from both yoga and from the martial arts/qigong. Have found it very helpful reading about other’s experiences on this site. Also using my time in retirement reading about the history of self cultivation practices in South, Central and East Asia. Lots of interesting papers on these topics on Academia.com.