Sahaja

From a internal martial arts perspective I am talking primarily about static stance work - wuji, Taiyi, Zhang Zhuang ,Santishi , daishi , other static positions some with various hand mudras or body shapes, etc. this work is static on the outside but on the inside there is movement and changes in physical and energetic structure take place that support internal skill development and build capacity/build qi. There can also be other work as well like seated work or breath work or moving qi gong or work on opening certain body areas but the static stance work is the most common. Each style or lineage have developed or adopted those supplemental practices they feel are most important for their specific art or their specific approach to their specific art. there is also the neigong process that is not specifically attached to any particular internal martial arts style that prepares one for spiritual work/nei Dan/meditative work or medical work but also can provide a foundation for internal martial arts. it is more in depth, more comprehensive because it focuses only on internal development rather than having as it’s focus the teaching of a martial art form and applications as well. Unfortunately I am probably making this sound more organized and standardized than it is in real life but hopefully have made it a little clearer.

Pursuing internal skill only through practice of the external, physical form can indeed take a very long time - if at all. That’s why many martial arts systems have their own unique process of neigong to supplement their forms that is in addition to and separate from the form. They may not even use that term but that’s what these supplemental practices are for. These practices build the capability and the external forms are used to mobilize and express the energy. Unfortunately some people don’t know this and just practice the external physical movement forms thinking that something more will arise. In my opinion this is the real misconception.

Here is an example of how internal skill (nei gong) is applied in Baguazhang (one of the 3 main internal martial arts) to develop the body through moving the qi using the eight directions. The qi is not just a concept or a metaphor for physical activity like breathing… it’s an actual internal pressure that can be quite strongly felt that fills the area of the body in the direction it is being sent. Filling and emptying have a literal meaning that can be distinctly felt. In order to do this basic body method one needs to have done a lot of pre-work (opening laogong, building qi, absorbing the awareness into the body, etc.) using qi gong or a neigong process. Once one learns to apply this internal skill in each palm posture then one learns to apply it in the form sets and applications.

Here is a video about qi rising to the head and to the chest that might be useful to you. Doesn’t directly address the heart chakra opening but might be useful to rule other simpler possibilities out.. There are actually three videos on the topic of qi but given your comments this may be a place to start.

Sorry to hear of your struggles. We all experience emotional and physical difficulties and psychological ups and downs on the path, no one is immune to this. . However, when it starts to interfere with your health, your relationships or daily life in the form of pain or depression or dissociation from shared reality it’s time to seek some professional help and curtail/end self cultivation activities, at least temporarily. from a Daoist model of self cultivation many of the practices you have described having done or are considering can free up yang qi in the body that naturally rises towards the head. This can result in many of the symptoms you describe. A disturbance of shen could also be involved particularly if the heart center has opened prematurely. While there are practices to ground this energy as well as to develop the subtle body to manage any excess , once the energy gets out of control exceeding your capabilities to absorb and manage it, it can be very difficult to rein it back in on your own without help. So I suggest ending all practices for the time being and seeking in person help. Once you've worked with someone to get things sorted out and feel back in control you can resume your practices slowly assuming this is what you want to do. My understanding is that self cultivation practices are not advised for people experiencing emotional or mental difficulties as they can act to add more fuel to the fire which is not helpful if you are already struggling. To tread on the challenging path of cultivation you really need to be in good health and well grounded as a starting point as it’s not an easy road as your experience shows. sorry if I sound kind of extreme but it’s from my heart. Best wishes to you.

Probably the term qi is one of those terms that should remain untranslated, as its basis unique to its cultural source. The early Chinese philosophers viewed qi as the fundamental force/building block of the universe that from a cosmological perspective preceding the division into yin and Yang, heaven/earth/humans and the 10000 things. It was viewed as being every where and in all things in some way. So it shouldn’t be surprising at all the designations for qi reflecting its different attributes and all the confusion that can be created because of this. Adding to this confusion are differences in language and world view based on time and place. In my understanding, from a self cultivation perspective it will manifest differently depending what layer you are working at. What manifests at the physical layer is different than at the energetic layer which in turn is different than the deeper layers (mental, causal, etc.) this in turn affects our experience of it. At the level of the physical we might experience it as movement of the breath while at the energetic (e.g. qi gong or internal martial arts) we might experience it as electrical or magnetic or pneumatic pressure deep inside and so on with each layer being experienced in its in its own way. In fact the progression through these layers back to the source in self cultivation is predicated on moving away from both the experience and definition of it at the preceding level, though the manifestation at the preceding level can be used as a tool to bridge to the next layer. since science generally operates at the physical layer it’s difficult to rely on them for a definitive view of qi as it transcends the physical. However, for those uncomfortable not having a scientific basis for their views there is the concept and term dark energy. It is accepted by science as the force driving the expansion of the universe at a rate faster than is expected based on known measurable factors and is calculated to make up 68% of the universe’s total mass. Though scientists accept its existence they have been unable to measure it or even directly observe it and haven’t been able to define what it actually is. At best they say it seems like a kind of pressure without a known source. Sounds a like qi to me.

Some great comments in this thread. I have an old friend that has just entered hospice this week and these suggestions are very timely for me. Thank you for sharing Sorry about your loss “don’t know much”. My wife of 35 years ongoing health issues have made me reflect on this possibility. Not sure how I would cope with it. From what I believe I think you interpreted your experience on the couch of her smiling and saying goodbye correctly. I hope the memory of this experience brings you peace. .

Sorry don’t have a video. However I think it’s in a text from a different tradition - something like - let it keep running until it’s done

Given they have not yet been able to directly observe or measure dark matter or dark energy which theoretically makes up 95% of all the matter and energy in the universe (or even agree on what it is and whether it even exists), I think it will take them some time to get around to dealing with qi. Of course then they will have to also deal with shen and the list goes on from there! in the meantime I am more than happy to use these terms as heuristics because they are both useful and meaningful in cultivation and reflect my own and others experience quite well.

Interesting analogy. However mine seems to have had a bump stock added as it will just keep shooting the arrows without reloading.

It’s sad that you have spent many years practicing these arts and yet not have a direct experience of qi. It actually comes from deep inside of you and it is not subtle when it shows itself. Took me a long time and a lot of work to find it. Hope that one day you find yours. I think you’ll find it quite interesting.

My understanding of waigong (external skill)is using the bodies muscle contractive force and hinge joints together to create energy and movement. It is how we normally interact with the environment though it can be trained to be quite strong. My understanding of Neigong (internal skill) is learning to generate and transmit energy and movement through the soft tissues of the body generally using release rather than contraction. It is not how we naturally interact with the environment and requires work to develop. This skill can be developed generically (building the yin field in the lower abdomen, opening the tissue and joints, building channel capability particularly the extraordinary ones, building and learning to mobilize vital energy, learning to stabilize awareness and turn off some of the body’s natural reactions to application of physical force/stress, building the internal transmission capability -the internal wet suit, opening specific points and connecting them, etc.) and then applied in individual martial arts based on that art’s philosophy and strategy. This same internal skill can also be brought to bear to support work in the healing arts or in spiritual development.

My understanding is that focusing on the sensations on the skin is much less effective than having your awareness listening deep inside of your body observing and influencing the qi and Jin movements there.

Stone hard perineum sounds painful. Hope it’s not catchy.

My advice is different. There are arts that view the mingmen as an area and use it to connect upper and lower among other things. Acupuncture points are for acupuncture but often the area in the vicinity of the point has similar functionality and is easier to use in the related self cultivation arts (e.g. laogong, yung quan, etc). This functionality can be lost when the points for acupuncture are overemphasized to the exclusion of the areas surrounding them as happens with the proliferation of acupuncture charts. It’s often works better to use an area rather than a point and is less prone to over focus which can impede song (release) . Ayurveda marma points do a better job of integrating their medical functionality with the South Asian cultivation practices (martial arts and yoga)than acupuncture points as they are defined as both the point and the area. Marma point maps look quite similar to acupuncture maps (e.g. hrt in the palm connected to the heart vs laogong in the palm) though there are distinct differences as well. While I don’t advocate mixing systems in cultivation, I do think a familiarity does give perspective and context.

1. Strongly held views by people on this and related topics that don’t agree with his views 2. Some of his posts on social media can put people off or appear unnecessarily provacative.(my opinion) 3. He openly critiques some approaches that people are quite invested in (qi gong, yoga, sexual practices, martial arts, breath, intellectualized meditation, visualization, etc.) Let’s see if our experiment can keep the discussion on item 1. Would be great if people cannot only disagree but can give a specific alternative scenario that replaces it with justification.

This is test. Am posting something relevant to the topic that will be controversial. Let’s see if we can have a discussion without it’s my way or the highway coming up. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_1m_Kuurou/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== it’s kind of sad when the subject is spiritual and people devolve to trying to prove they are right and drown out the efforts of all to learn. It’s also sad when people are presented with new information they are unwilling to reconsider their views given that the concept of change is at the base of the approach being discussed. Perhaps an acknowledgement to agree to disagree and accepting the reality of different views would be more in line with the topic of discussion if change is unacceptable. Don’t have to hold hands and sing kumbha ya but it’s also pretty ridiculous to argue and resort to anger given the topic.

‘lately I sometimes practice at a nearby park near a group doing tai chi to music. They have kindly accepted my presence and I’ve made a few new acquaintances even though our practices and languages are different. Makes me feel a little less conspicuous practicing near to another group doing something similar though historically I’ve practiced a good deal in public (qi gong, yoga and martial arts) on a solo basis and I am quite accustomed to it. . .

I agree that learning internal martial arts online is problematic because there may be no opportunity to do the partner work/push hands which is very important aspect of learning the art. This is important in both tai chi and in bagua which has its own version of push hands. However what I like about Damo’s approach is in all three internal styles (Yang, Cheng and Xing yi) he teaches along side Neigong (which is his main focus) he includes teaching of the internal movements of Jin and qi. If you look closely at this short vignette you can see the Jin move in his body during the palm change. This is the part that is seldom taught but is the part that makes these arts internal.

Perhaps since you have studied for some time you should share some specific points why the approach you take is superior to what Damo teaches. Otherwise people are just making decisions based on innuendo and people's emotional opinions (e.g. Damo is a friend of Adam so he must be a bad teacher) with little or no direct experience of the approach they are critiquing. here is an example of what Damo teaches in Cheng style Bagua including some comments on the internal components of the movement….perhaps share your views on this https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_plxi0Pctp/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Why qi gong a joke Video uses some interesting historical terms but in the end doesn’t say very much nor does he answer his own questions. . I agree there is a lot of qigong that is about waving the arms and feeling a buzz on the hands or skin that will do little more than relax you or for some who get no exercise will help with improved circulation. However, there are other approaches that are a lot more work and that can be incredibly intense in their effects. Hard for me to believe these doctors have experienced the second version and then don’t even speak about it. The internal pressure that arises in these approaches is so intense, so immediate and so physical in manifestation that cosmological philosophical considerations seem of much less immediate interest or concern.

If you decide to try Damo’s internal arts academy for Nei gong (qi gong), suggest you combine it with some Neigong zoom classes…gives a chance for feedback on your efforts and questions…one of his senior instructors is in the south of England and has two hour zoom classes on Weds evenings. She also does in person retreats periodically. https://sophiejohnson.offeringtree.com/offerings

this is my understanding but I’m sure others know more. Zi fa gong or spontaneous movement is generated by active energy that is released/arises (‘yang” qi) during energy related practices (mantra, mudra, breath practices, qi gong, hatha, etc). The body’s natural way of dealing with a temporary excess of this active qi is to automatically seek to balance it with receptive form energy (“yin” qi). The earth’s yin qi is used by the body to balance this active Yang qi. It’s analogous to electricity being grounded into the earth. Yang qi tends to rise in the body so the head and hands are often involved in this grounding to the earth’s yin energy in spontaneous movement episodes. The torso can also be involved to maximize this grounding. This rising of energy to the head can lead to health issues if not managed, so it’s always good to close down well at the end of practice bringing this active energy back down. Through practices that build/strengthen the yin energy center in the abdomen (Dan tian or kanda) one creates a controlling mechanism/repository for this active energy leading to less spontaneous activity as well as less exposure to issues from active energy rising to the head. Regardless still always a good practice to close down well to be on the safe side. this excess active energy also has many other manifestations than this seeking of grounding (speaking, shaking, dancing, forming hand mudras, etc,) all are the body/mind’s efforts to normalize and respond to this excess energy. They are akin to the body’s natural response to digesting food (belching and passing gas) and should be viewed similarly (politely ignored) so that people don’t overreact to the experiences generated. there are many types/levels of absorption - from the basic- soaking one’s full awareness into the body or into sound vibration during yoga or qi gong practice all the way up to the very advanced nirvikalpa samadhi. There is even a Sahaja samadhi - 😆. Different traditions use different names for seemingly related concepts.. My understanding is that meditation is a state one arrives at rather than something one does. hope this is useful.

Seems like they are conflating relatively easy to achieve entry level qi gong experiences (zi fa gong) with much deeper, much harder to achieve shen gong level outcomes (chakra opening and kundalini). However does have good zi fa gong pictures showing people grounding yang qi to the floor (head or back or hands or front torso to floor).

Am curious what you mean by qi gong MCO. does it include the following? 1. The physical establishing of the circuit 2. The rotation of Qi a. ‘neutral’ Qi b. Yang Qi c. Yin Qi 3. The rotation of congenital fluid a. Ding fluid b. marrow washing 4. The rotation of light a. refracted b. pure 5. The rotation of the alchemical pill I think these are what is in his definition of the MCO.