Sahaja

For me qi has such a strong somatic expression in the body during practice that it seems it is a something that exists, not just a concept or something very faint or ephemeral. Because of this, these debates seem strange to me and it’s difficult to figure out how to contribute. Transmissions and other emissions of qi don’t seem that unusual to me either, I sort of expect a good teacher to have this capability at some level even if it’s just a subtle transmission of internal skills through proximity directly from nervous system to nervous system. Not that I am at that level but when I see how the qi behaves at even my elementary level (pressure, movement, contraction, expansion, circulation, “squeezing of the toothpaste tube”)it seems more like some very early phase on the same continuum than some crazy, distant magical skill set. Whether I will ever have the capability or the qi level or the karma to ever get to that point I don’t know, but it doesn’t seem crazy impossible nor is it a particular obsession of mine. So for me on fa qi - I am - “congratulations, cool skill set, nice accomplishment , way beyond my skill level, nice skill to have as a medical practitioner” and then I’m back to my practice. Now if someone starts talking about “fa stillness”, or fa emptiness” or ‘Jhanic state fa -I am sure I will be all ears - lol!

It is interesting to read others experiences with standing practice. Thank you for sharing. Some of these experiences I’ve had, like the shaking or difficulty staying for long periods, others I have not so much - emotional response. Though sometimes I do get cranky afterward which is a sign I over did it. My definition of standing practice may be broader than some as to me classic ZZ holding the tree is only one of many, many positions where the main principle of standing, hanging the flesh off the bones and turning off muscle contraction and listening to the body, can be practiced. Qigong/neigong, bagua, tai chi and Xing yi all have static standing positions as part of their traditions. I think that shows how important they are. The benefits are quite wide ranging from physical strengthening and building energetic lines in the body to support energy flow in movement to developing yin fields in the abdomen and elsewhere to mental absorption in the body that can take one quite deep. Personally I find that they generate a lot of endorphins (much more than other physical exercises for me) - kind of superficial I know - but still it’s a nice feeling implying both a physical health benefit and mental benefit (much more smiling afterward!) I image some people might get annoyed by my silly smile afterward, my apologies! Now when I stand and allow the flesh to hang I immediately experience both yang chi movement and yin chi contraction of body tissue. There is also much more internal connection than there used to be with individual finger, hand, shoulder, wrist and foot placement/adjustment creating energetic responses in the tissue in different parts of the torso. While they are systematic and repeatable, their complexity makes mapping their specific patterns difficult. I surmise there is a correlation between this chi mobilization and the endorphins though I have not ever been told this by any of my teachers. Even when my awareness touches certain points chi gets mobilized. It’s pretty cool when you have strong somatic responses where the points are on the acupuncture chart. Actually where your awareness and how stable it is really an important key to the practice. If your mind is somewhere outside the body during the practice the benefits are limited, sort of the same as in yoga. I am now at a stage where the Jin is moving up , down and out in the body in standing practice which does feel like it widens the body and further stretches the tissue. Back and arms spreading from the Jin movement start to feel like I look like a gorilla - lol. . I still struggle staying a long time but the struggle is more a weariness of mind or body than specific body pain. Though my arthritic knee and shoulder provide some fireworks from time to time. I have to observe my own personal cues to work around these health challenges (my karma talking to me!) . . Shakiness still arises but is shorter and more of a bouncy energetic response to a cue (which there are so many of like in Santishi which must have 20 plus cues to consider when practicing). I think the cues are really important to keep you on task with your awareness continuously monitoring the body. This mental monitoring can also take one quite deep into absorption in the body. I find that this absorption is transferable to my sitting practice. I do these practices daily and highly recommend them. While it may be helpful at different points to have a goal of how long to build endurance, I think it’s more important in the long run how you do it. A few minutes where you’ve really released the tissue and turned off muscle contraction to the point you almost fall down and are really absorbed in observing and practicing the cues to the point you forget about everything else can have a lot of benefits for your life. I have been told that some of the standing practices can take you as far as the sitting practices can in your sadhana. . best wishes with your practice.

Joining and Rou shou (which are the terms for these practices I am familiar with) are pretty cool. It’s an internal martial arts/neigong skill that can be learned. I think the cool part is seeing what is possible to develop using your mindbody not the martial skill or power. I understand there are a number of ways to do it. It’s a skill not magic though it does have a little woo-woo.

Lots of old texts, particularly in South Asia, talk about siddhis (one whole chapter in Patanjali’ s book with 4 chapters talks about them)They arise naturally as a consequence of the practice and how we respond to them to affects where we end up. I think making a certain capability the focus of your practice is limiting, even showing it or talking about it can carry some consequences, particularly if it’s a show off or carnival type approach. On the other hand teachers sharing their qi with their students, (or in this case with a patient) can be a useful normal process if done correctly. Having powers doesn’t mean someone is spiritually advanced either. I’ve seen people who could do many things end up unwell physically, mentally and reputationally because their experiences made them view themselves too highly and they took advantage of others. The negative, cynical energetic reaction we see to this topic in these comments and elsewhere on TB is just the flip side of people over excited chasing powers. They are like the negative image of obsessed fans.(negative fan boys) I would say it’s equally as destructive for them as it is for the over excited fan. The advice I have received for responding to weird things arising is to maybe acknowledge, maybe laugh or say wow, then move on with your practice. I think the same thing goes with responding to others that have something arise in their practice. Finally sometimes I see teachers talk to other teacher’s students talking negative about their teachers. I think this can carry some pretty serious karma if it’s done to for the wrong reason. It’s easy to think you are doing someone a favor when a) you don’t fully understand what is going on in that relationship b).it’s really done to steal that student away. For students I would say take any comment from a teacher that disrespects another teacher or school and that they alone possess the right way to practice as a huge, glittering, waving red flag.

Sorry, tried and failed. It’s just a 25 second video of Damo Mitchell treating a patient. One of the treatments shows him putting the chi into the patient’s torso and the patient having muscle contractions head to toe. Then there is a short description that I quoted (e.g. 16 types of chi emission ) The name Zhen Fa could relate to Zhen qi but that’s just conjecture on my part.

As a follow up to my comment on seeing something familiar before to the method Rudy used. I found the reference I was thinking of but it might be different than what Rudy is doing so apologies if that’s the case - it’s called Zhen Fa - a type of Qi emission used by a TCM practitioner to treat a patient called vibrating shaking chi. Patients reaction was similar to other videos posted as was the method by the person applying it (pushing the chi down his arm into the patient and the patient’s muscle’s contracting) . Apparently there are 16 types of qi emissions that can be used by medical practitioners. It’s presented as an example of a tool that can be usedin a descriptive manner in the video. Not as an ad. Couldn’t figure out how to link the video but it’s on Internal Arts Academy Facebook page - search for acupuncture. Posted in 2020. As I said before, I believe qi emission is something that can be developed. I don’t think you will get a job at a shipyard as an arc welder with it -lol- but it definitely is a tool with a purpose. Actually the more mysterious part to me is getting the energy to the right point to be medically useful without injuring the patient.

Sex not much of a Jing issue for women. Childbirth and nursing are big consumers of Jing for them as I understand it.

Yes. I can think a person is attractive or desirable and not have the physical steps of sexual arousal take place which are specific physical changes in the mind/body.

My understanding is that it’s lost through arousal not just desire. It’s the body’s physical response that burns it. Arousal could be sexual in nature or it could be something else like stress starting a physical fight or flight reaction (arousal) in the body. For men it’s not the ejaculation, it’s the body physically getting ready for ejaculation that burns the Jing. I think it’s an important distinction because it provides a better opportunity to manage it.

Some lineages consciously avoid use or reference to energy centers below the belly button for puritanical reasons. Sometimes they are referred to as secret for similar reasons.

Based on my familiarity with the exercise Rudy does in the video to generate/move the qi (particularly the part where he has to do it a couple of times to get it going), familiarity with the exercise’s effects on the tissue when one does it as a qi gong form to move and thicken the qi, having seen others move qi into their hand the same way that Rudy demonstrates, and the limited level of reaction of the young ladies receiving it (no falling onto the floor and rolling around or other drama) I would say that it’s a simpler solution that it’s true than that he learned how to effectively hypnotize people to believe it and successfully deceived all his students. I guess the only way to be sure is to ask him to demonstrate it on you. I am not one of Rudy’s students nor do I have an interest in chasing abilities as I don’t think it’s the correct approach. Not much to say about the other videos other than I don’t plan to visit the school of magnetism and mesmerism anytime soon.

So only 10% feel it? From all the examples of debunking of phenomena I’ve seen here based on the widespread, foolproof method of hypnosis, hypnosis only works on 10%?. my cynicism feels dashed and I am aghast!. I hope I don’t have to start believing in esoteric phenomena now.

That is my understanding There was another guy Prakasatman after him that specifically tried to clarify “Maya and Brahman together constitute the entire universe, just like two kinds of interwoven threads create a fabric. Maya is the manifestation of the world, whereas Brahman, which supports Maya, is the cause of the world.” Hmm sounds a lot like Siva and Sakti. It also sounds like a lot of other philosophies where one guy says something and later a cottage industry is set up to explain and defend what he/she said often fundamentally changing it in the process.

Good question. We need to ask Shankara what he meant by maya being conceptually distinct from Brahman. Though saying that siva and sakti are two views of one thing that is indivisible subordinating Maya to a lower tattva isn’t exactly clear either, though I do prefer living in a world that is real to one that is illusory.

I think the Buddha had a break through insight with dependent origination. However trying to graft on prevailing views such as karma and transmigration on it was not intrinsically a good fit. Though his reorienting of karma away from actions more to intentions probably saved a few yogis lives!. Advaita Vedanta’s secret sauce of illusion is a good concept but becomes a bit unwieldy when it gets separated from Brahman. Still Advaita? I guess any philosophy can have a part that is a little clunky though perhaps a leap of faith would create less headaches than trying to prove everything logically. Since most of us are still subject to duality trying to have a nondual discussion based on logic is pretty tricky.

When I think of karma I think of those phone wires on poles in some countries that are impossibly, crazily tangled in huge mazes of wires. The phones work but I can’t imagine how any utility employee could make sense of them to try to fix them let alone someone as lacking in skills as myself. I can only be grateful when they work and understanding when they don’t. Knowing how precarious the whole thing is I just try to be careful not to pull on the wires or bump the pole to make matters worse. Actually this metaphor may be more apt for dependent origination than karma though I think the two must be related somehow.

I am familiar with some of these qigong forms that GM Doo Wai taught (San gong, golden flying Pheonix, Tibetan burning palm, etc). Have been exposed to some other forms that might be related some of which use a similar approach to the breath (percentages) and am curious if they are related. Have you heard of a qigong called Heart Piercing Palm?

Seems there is lot of focus on the height but my understanding is there is more mistake made on the depth of it. people get mixed up by sensitivity of ren 6 Qi hai and are too close to the surface of the skin in centering their attention - based on my experience it should be about at the level of ren 6 (roughly 2 finger widths below bb) but in the physical center of body on a direct line between the hui yin (perineum) and bai hai (top of the head). yoga has different centers but I would say the kanda is the closest in location to ldt. Kanda is the center point for all the nadis in the body and is quite energetic so if you are slightly off the ldt you are still in good company. Also some marmas, chakras and adharas in the neighborhood. Very energetic area (not to mention the energy of the kua which is nearby and can also be quite pronounced) my understanding is that accupuncture points are helpful guides but are built for needles (so are small). Points and lines from an energetic experiential perspective can be and often are bigger and wider so people’s somatic experience will differ.

In the tantric yoga I practice we use mantras to support the practice of asana, usually silently, usually based on bijas or Sanskrit alphabet sounds. One of the effects of using mantra during asana practice is to trigger kumbhaka. These gaps in the breath are not imposed by the mind but naturally arise reflecting an internal process at work extending the breath. There are also other practices based on listening for sounds and using specific mantras at more advanced levels. In tantric yoga sound and speech (vak) is quite important to the practice and are central to its cosmology. I’ve also have used mantra/dharani in other lineage practices as well. Generally I found those mantra practices based on simple sounds that direct energy down into the lower abdomen to be the most useful.

Is there any connection between Sherab Chamma of Bon and Daoist Queen Mother of the West? Had an interesting, very unexpected interaction with a painting of Sherab Chamma at the Lukhang exhibit that I don’t really understand.

Is there a spiritual lesson in the safety video on airplanes about putting your air mask on first before helping the person next to you with their mask?

Lately in thinking about the subject of teachers, gurus etc the importance of accountability has come to mind. In my experience, without some external accountability or some external check, teachers/gurus can easily go off in the wrong direction and abuses/delusion arise. This is particularly insidious if the teacher is getting lots of accolades from their students with no counterbalancing feedback on their own behavior/teaching from some authoritative figure, such as their own teacher or organization or spiritual lineage. Quality of the practice lineage is obviously very important but accountability of the teacher is pretty important as well. some thing to consider when both choosing a teacher and assessing the teaching you are receiving.

These tantrics actually were inclusive in that they provided for practices at the dual level, the mixed dual and non dual level and at the non dual level, depending on where you were.. They also had the concept of paramashiva/paramabrahman that seemed to go even beyond non dual (kind of tattva 0) in which siva/sakti were nested though talking about this is way beyond my pay grade.

The non dual saiva tantrics take a different view. Man is actually is actually a manifestation of “God -Siva/Sakti” or consciousness in a limited form.. Consciousness/God uses this restricted form to rediscover himself (Lilla) through the sheddings of these self limitations. Process of recognition of this is the insight associated with emancipation from these restrictions and return to true nature. just giving a different view.

In nondual saiva Tantra many things come in threes (particularly in the Trika sect) - siva/sakti/nara (Nara is man) Knower,knowing, known. Para/apara/aparaapara (three goddesses) abheda/bheda/bhedaabheda and advaita/dvaita/visistadvaita - nondual/dual/dualnondual , iccha/jnana/kriya - powers of will, knowledge and action, tripura - 3 cities or three goddesses in one, 3 upayas or yogic methods -gross/subtle/highest