GreatAutumn

Very convenient and not at all suspect.

You payed that to a different electric teacher, did you not? We are debating specifically Rudis Authentic neigong here. And disregarding the fact that guy openly admits to charging from a socket, do you have any evidence that it's not faked except for you getting electrocuted? Did you take any measurement, any infrared videos, anything at all? Did the master strip to show he has nothing on him? Why does one electric qi master charge so little while another charges 100 times more? Doesn't that raise any red flags to you? Did this electric master detect your training with the other electric master? Why doesn't everyone from Rudi's school just go to this other dude that's so much more cheaper? It just raises more red flags and questions as far as I'm concerned You guys keep saying come and see, but it's never shown that going to these guys proves anything at all, you just get a great show, some tcm done on you and you get electrocuted . And less money in your wallet.

This is a false analogy. The dispute here is not whether electricity exists, it's whether the fence can generate electricity on it's own, without being plugged into a generator. And if someone touching the fence can differentiate between a self generating fence and a fence that's plugged into a socket. I know for a fact that a group of users here have asked one of these electrical qi masters for a remunerated private demonstration that would be recorded and measured with scientific equipment and they declined. As far as I understand it the guy is the successor of the first master of this Rudi guy that we're debating here. So things aren't just as straight forward as you make it out to be. But go ahead and prove everybody wrong. Next time you pay to meet them, buy a infrared camera and handheld metal detector and see how that goes, maybe post it on the internet for everyone to see. I even find it quite incredible that out of all these people that appear in the videos and payed so much money for this experience no one even attempted something like this, unless of course it's not really allowed

Maybe you are overly sensitive to a silly joke and are a bit overly defensive about the whole thing. I'm guessing some cognitive dissonance might rear it's ugly head every hear and there. I'm wondering, it's clear these guys make a lot of money with this stuff, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars here. How expensive is a good metal detector and an infrared camera to detect any electronic equipment? Why isn't it standard with these demonstrations since people pay some much money to meet them? Meet the students, pass a metal detector and perform while being recorded by a infrared camera, seems pretty non invasive and much more dignified than getting stripped. Is there a reason why none of the videos I see on that guys youtube has at least such a minimal setup except that they don't want to? Is there any protocol at all that these guys do to confirm this is real other than just electrocuting people?

Luckily enough these people ask for big enough sums of money to "feel their qi" that only people who already believe it's real would ever consider it. Luckily enough it works in their favor. How much did that guy said it cost to do a healing dance with them? 5k? I wonder if for that amount the guy that zapps people goes through at least a metal detector before each session to at least minimize foul play. Otherwise just going there, giving some money, getting a massage(hopefuly not with a happy ending) and maybe getting some electro therapy doesn't really prove anything at all

Well it makes sense to first prove the simple things and if these are indeed proven to be true, then maybe people will start actually looking for the big things. If you guys can't even proove such basic stuff, there is very little sense in talking about other more advanced accomplishments

If you guys link up in order to bring to the world qi disclosure or to debunk the debunkers, that would be a crossover that would make all those superhero movies pale in comparison

Electric eels have specialized organs that can store and release electricity. Humans do not. Literally have a bunch of unaffiliated scientists(lets say a medical doctor and an electrical engineer, with provable credentials) and perform in front of them, preferably while in your underwear(thats totally not gay btw, it's for science) to exclude hidden devices. Using a metal detector would also be advisable. Then take some measurements with an ammeter and voltmeter and call it a day. Yes, something like this can also be faked, but at least it shows a real effort to prove this is real and not just made up. You don't have to go full disclosure and it's really not such a hard feat, I'm sure most scientists would jump at the chance to see and study something like this. It's at most a few hours in an afternoon, it's not some herculean task.

Well, the facts are as follows: -the master used to sell the devices used to fake these "qi" demonstrations -the grandmaster can clearly be seen performing magic tricks in a lot of the videos -affiliated school uses electronic device to charge themselves up -master of the school admits there are ways to charge yourself up from a socket, it's exactly the same as a qi zapp but pinky swears he never did it tho - the name of the school and the lineage is ""secret"" -this is supposedly an ancient secret technique that very few in the world know but they sell it for $50 a month and advertise it on tik-tok. -I assume most of the students can't electrocute anyone, but a few very "special" ones do.(this is a classical one, get some of your guys to be part of the audience to make it look more believable, all the performers do this) -they ask for large sums of money from their students in order to receive "healing" or to "advance their progress" -they claim the most beneficial qi they can give is the one that doesn't give any sensations and keep the electric one just for special occasions -they claim they got qi electricity running through themselves and yet they say they get sick just like everybody else when electricity has been proven to kill viruses and bacteria, so someone actually supercharged should probably never or very rarely get sick https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.13.991067v1.full -You're telling me China has superhuman people that can kill with a touch and they just let them openly teach to anybody this secret knowledge? They were all up in the Falun dafa business but people that can set fire with their qi and electrocute with their bare hands are just allowed to roam the world free while posting their exploits on youtube and tik-tok? "EDuCaTe yOuRsElF sWeAtY" doesn't really cut it as a response, this sounds fishy af and you sound like you're experiencing cognitive dissonance full on as the inconsistencies and "coincidences" keep piling up. Maybe at some point you'll look at all this and stop coming up with excuses for them, because that's what has been happening so far. But that's enough for tonight, or I might get sued for wrong think or get accused of trolling

Oh please, there are thousands that swear by the miracle healers they visit. Personal experiences can easily be manipulated, especially when one really really wants something to be true and when an authority figure is involved. where has he proven himself exactly? Show us the studies, the videos of him under scrutiny, the medical tests done on patients before and after his qi healings.The only thing he has proven is that he outputs youtube videos and that he has a small army of believers around him. This sounds like one of the biggest copes I've read about these things, even bigger then the one written by that Pak guy from before. Humility would be to be open and frank about his limitations, not to add cheap tricks to make himself look better Clearly people do and people should as it's indicative of the general mindset he has. If he thinks a small deception is acceptable, especially when people pay thousands of dollars to meet him, then there's not such a leap in reason to assume he does the same for bigger deceptions. And btw, while we're at it, are you guys gonna sue these guys too, or nah? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq9ID1z_l2U

That option is ignored because it's not part of your school nor is it in any way indicative of whether this system is legit or just a scam. The head of the school asking for large sums of money to ""heal"" or to accelerate the energetic progress of his students is very relevant though. Also, the sufi guy you went to is open about charging himself from a socket if I read some threads here correctly.

Oh, that's just how they start, they degenerate as time passes and as the leader stars to believe his own bullshit. But to each its own I guess, if you guys want to pay that much money to get superpowers, than do it, I'm sure its all real, keep us updated and be sure to post videos of that scientific study that you guys intend to do down the line. Or even better, post it on tik-tok

Now it definitely makes more sense from a business perspective. Make a small community around a bunch stories of superhero powers, make the poor ones pay a monthly fee so you get a decent living doing nothing and make the rich ones fork up 5k for a healing session so they can shoot lightning from their fingertips(no guarantees tho, maybe they're just lazy or something). If 20 people show up at your healing circle you get 100k while if you have 100 students subscribed to your wisdom you get 5k a month. Shoot man, I should start my own cult, this stuffs pretty profitable.

So now you're just dancing around without actually answering, and I'm pretty sure I know why. I'll ask you again, this time without ambiguity: How much do the medical trips to master Zhou cost, like the ones from the videos posted earlier itt? I don't know why you're referencing other masters and not your own, to quote you And how long does it take for your average person of moderate health to be able to start zapping people? And please no vague answer, give me an approximate timeframe in years for how long it usually takes so we can actually calculate the subscription fee for all of it

So I can visit this Rudi guy or this master Zhou, pay 50 euros and I get an electric qi demo? Is that what you're saying, because in that case without any irony, sign me up. I can go get the demo and report back here if I've been swayed by the evidence

Yeah, we're the conspiracy theorists, not you guys who know this very esoteric secret practice to emit electricity from your hands that you advertise on tik-tok, but which you can't demonstrate after a years of practice yet you know people in the school that can do after a few months and which can be faked with a device that's pretty much identical to the ones your master used to sell. I genuinely hope I'm wrong and you get to zapp people and phase through walls but I have a suspicion they'll keep stringing you along for years without any real result In the mean time please be kind and answer this for the class, would you. I Have a nagging feeling I know exactly how you guys are being dried of your funds

Because I care about my money and won't waste them on some make-belief peddled to credulous people. There is literally zero evidence this is at all real and plenty of "coincidences" pointing towards being a scam. But just to entertain the idea, answer these questions for the class, pretty please: How long will I have to practice and pay monthly subscriptions until I can zapp people? How much does it cost to get a demo from one of the people that can electrocute people?

Show the videos of these great effects, the stuff that's documented is literally identical. The negative ion generators are literally the devices used to FAKE these demonstrations and so happens he used to sell them. How gullible are you? Right, very convenient, especially when you want to avoid any legal charges. I'm willing to bet Master Zhou probably not even his real name, makes it so much harder to file a complaint with the police, for example. Right, master Zhou is among the main masters of the school, as per their site. I can only assume he knows about the device and agrees with it "Yeah, bro, I totally want to do this but I have some logical problems right now, maybe next year, I'll totally do it bro, also I'm a bit sick and the dog ate my qi but I would totally bro, trust me" Because they are listed on his website as one of his teachers? Right, I'm also sure these guys have no direct connection with the master, they're completely foreign and aren't planted in order to make you people believe this stuff even more. It's literally textbook lol. Let me ask you this, are you able to do it? If not, why not and how long have you been practicing? What goalposts? There have been no real answers, just more "trust me, bro" and "it's all a coincidence". You guys sound like cultists

muh "empty your cup" nonsense. He is right, even tho a bit rude about it, The facts are: -every single one of the displayed powers can be put either into being magicians tricks or done through a electrical device - your master just so happens he used to sell such devices - the lineage and name of the school is secret knowledge(of course, they don't want people to have a proper place where to voice any complaints) -a different school under the same master admits to using electronic devices in their "training" -the master doesn't want to do a proper testing because he doesn't like attention, yet he has tik tok(it's true, i just checked) where he advertises his teachings of this uber old and secret method -other masters with similar claims refused testing as well(i know for a fact people here proposed quite a lot of money to some master in China for a private scrutinized demo) This is exactly how these type of scams usually operate. Say you have some super secret knowledge that only you know and promise grand things, do some parlor tricks to woo the audience and maybe have some "pupils"(aka people in cahoots with the main perpetrators) in order to show that it actually trully works and people are making progress. Then scam everyone of their money. I'm curious, how many decades they told you you have to pay your subscription before you'll be able to electrocute people with your bare hands?

You literally said a few posts ago that "I know of doctors in thailand who use a machine to charge themselves up, then emit the electricity into people as we do with faqi. The store the energy in their gut and use intention, breath and muscle activation to push the energy out. When they are empty they go back to the machine to charge themselves back up again" And also : "The above mentioned doctor can do that, you will not find an electrical device on him and he can hold onto that charge for weeks and run a current for quite some time" So it's not just a "tiny bit" of help, it can literally charge you up to the point of emitting it outside, and you can hold that charge for weeks. Also about your master, who exactly is he? Ok, so he has some nice videos of him doing stuff on youtube but of what lineage is he part of, what type of neidan does he teach, who are the patriarchs of the lineage? At least previous people that made such claims provided some background to their school, this is all based on youtube videos of questionable feats.

And what machine exactly is that, why the secrecy? How do you guys know if your master actually is able to generate his qi rather than just taking it from a socket if the results are basically indistinguishable? As far as you guys know, he just uses this machine to get his results while telling you that you need decades to meditate and pay him money. And even if that's not the case, what is the difference as far as results go between getting internal electricity from meditation as opposed from getting it from a wall socket? Why would anyone waste decades on it when they can just plug in and get the same results? At best this needs more transparency at worst it's kind of fishy

Tbf I registered here quite some time ago, I was just silently lurking

Oh yeah, cause saying who you are, where did you learn from and who authorized you to teach is definitely a favor to me, rather than a minimum requirement to try and legitimize your school. let me quote from your own site and maybe apply it to your own ""system"

No sane person would in our day and age. It would still be at least a step up from "just trust me bro, I would never lie to you" he has going. I looked through that webpage and there is literally 0 information on who this guy is, why exactly anyone should believe a word he says or from where he comes from. The fact that he mixes traditions including neigong and dantian cultivation with western practices is also a pretty big red flag

Exactly, let it be noted that my amount of demonstrated feats is of the same amount as his. And so are my credentials btw