鞏三孝

Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about the word 玄關/hsuan kuan/mysterious gate/mysterious pass/etc. The following video has a Chinese teacher living in Canada discussing this concept quite thoroughly in English. He made a lot of points that I think are insightful. For example, he pointed out that there are many different claims about the definition of this word, some of which are really quite different from each other. Also, he pointed out that, as for how to use this concept to practice, there are many different entry points and methods. They can be very different too. Of course, it is unlikely that every method and every theory is right. However, if you have the opportunity to interact regularly with Taoists, you may find that they generally don't spend too much time denigrating each other's "incorrect" practices. Not only that, even if it is absolutely impossible for all people to "achieve Tao" in this lifetime, those Taoists tend to respect those whose approaches to practice can be very different, even totally different. Why do Taoists respect those who use very different methods? It's not just because respect for others is a virtue or because if you are a Taoist who always criticizes Taoists who practice differently you will have zero friends (because nobody practices exactly the same ). There are many deeper reasons. Daoist disciples generally know very well that it is difficult for us to judge whether what we ourselves do is right or not, let alone others. It is also difficult for us to know the karma of others in past lives, the innate wisdom and potential of others, the morality of others, the destiny of others, the luck of others, and so on. These elements all affect the practice. Therefore, it is entirely possible that a person who practices "incorrect" cultivation today will be on the right path tomorrow. Moreover, the reason why he realizes the right path tomorrow might be because he went astray yesterday. Also, there are actually many "unknowable" elements to human existence. Why does one person have a good response with a certain method, while another person suffers a lot of setbacks with the same method, or even has a terrible side effect? Who can really explain it? Precisely because these things are hard to say or know, you don’t hear many people in Taoist temples saying, “This is the one and only way to practice” or “It will definitely end bad if you practice that way.” There are nearly infinite variables in life. So many things really varies from person to person. The meaning of the above is not to say that "everything goes in Taoist practice." It means that in practice, it cannot be assumed that everything is the same for everyone. To judge what counts as "right", one often needs to consider a person's age, experience, health, education level, character, potential, commitment, wisdom, maturity, background, and so on. Therefore, this kind of thing generally needs to be considered and discussed privately between teachers and students, and it is not possible to arbitrarily decide "right" and "wrong" for everybody on the Internet. His suggested practice at the end I don't condone or oppose, btw. I learned exercises related to the Mysterious Gate with three different Taoist teachers. The methods are all different from each other, and they're all different from the methods in the movie. Taoism is really diverse!

Teach teach teach, preach preach preach, what is the big difference? Fine and blurry line in between the two. Just because you are typing here for Free does not mean you did not become Mr Form to the visitors who deeply believe you. I can see you 'not asking for people's time, money or effort'. Even it is true, you use your eloquence to dangle big promises of far away magic in front of hungry people. If they want to satisfy the hunger you help stimulate then......"I keep my teacher's identity quiet because that's what I've been asked to do" (but you can go to Mr Mitchell he is teaching the same stuff, even also has secret esoteric buddhist teachings) (however he is like Mr Franztis, take little bit of this join to a little bit of that: now a complete 'system' with a lovely web site ) U don't owe me information------but I dont owe you not to smell some fishy overlap~~

you too We know that you have a verrry good teacher. To what extent?? Practitioners all over Asia know him, and they will come to him for advice, even help and medical treatment! And the teacher is proficient in English. But besides you, does anyone know him? It just so happens that the method he teaches is terribly similar to that of Damien Mitchell, and he also happens to think that Damien Mitchell is a highly qualified practitioner...So if people want to learn more from you or him, actually best to just join Lotus Neikung. Your teacher...quite a character

Oh no I think this is my mistaken understanding.......in the history of Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholicism I thought they are synonyms. He did not say he is a big deal in Catholicism......."only" said his family a big deal in the Orthodox church. Sorry!! Today heard some more: he is also a master of the stock market and high level poker gambling! Hiked in the himalayas (including Mt Everest) in flip flops and T-shirt! Quite entertaining but also a bit crazy. He has a story about a woman who was being raped by 100 or 1000 men. Lots of his stories are lots of violence, sex, sex+violence. I think we can divide his numbers all by 10 or 100 and maybe he has some reality in his stories.

If you listen to the first 50% of the interview you will know your ears a blessed with the tongue of a master! Of: Advaita Vedanta (he invented this method on his own...meditating for two hours a day as a boy..."I heard Maharashi was kind of a big deal in India") Chan Buddhism ("I even became a Chan Master for awhile") Jiu Jitsu Aikido Karate (the US government kidnapped him in Japan and forced him to teach a suicide squad???) Some secret Japanese Taoist priest sect? (So much a secret it hasn't any name) Pranayama Yoga Kriya Yoga (1 year locked in cave in India) Greek Catholicism ("me and my grandfather are a big deal in the Orthodox church in Greece.......") I-Kuan-Tao (inside of this: Fighting to the death or maiming enemies too many times to count Having sex with more than 1000 women (luckily in Scandinavia different women brought him for sex every day!!!) Taoist ritual (bit strange because I-Kuan-Tao is different than Taoism but close enough hmm) (never heard in Taiwan that I-Kuan-Tao is a fighting and sex ninja cult but okay, these are the deeeeep secrets) Taoist Nei-dan (one time meditated for one week without moving?) Tai chi chuan (Can cure disease worse than hepatitis but it is called hepatitits) Pa kua chang Hsing Yi Chuan Dzogchen Did I miss anything??? Stay online for the second 1/2 of the interview!!!! So I was a little bit surprised he wasn't this man when I checked on his photo: Even more he pushed a Turkish soldier from a locomotive at a top speed because the soldier was going to rape him, while other soldiers are raping 'everybody in the train', something to do with the Ottoman empire? And the other soldiers didnt shoot him?

So you made this discovery? How tall you are now???? How much regeneration did you do already? At least 30 ft??

Ya seems a same writing style

The photos are because the discussion is......ovvvvveeeeerrrrrr.......no more need to try to discuss with a man who will tie himself into any ridiculous knots of poor logic and just sit in the middle of his bundle of confusion and self contradicting while reminding everybody: "I am a master of the Nei Dan!" Yah yah, we see we see, and we also see the naked king is wearing beeaaauuutttiiifffuuullll robes! So I mean to say......You were already out. So the bow is actually a little bit unecessary... But the politeness is appreciated~~~

No no no not the 3rd eye... Different... I used the four eyes! I told you----Lee Fong-mao is a Taoist, but I learned from him the scholarly way, not some Taoist magic. Anyhow what I was saying about you seeming confused or changing your mind~~ Not so hard to demonstrate, only needs a bit of time. But I was pretty busy lately, using my four eyes for other things. Sorry for delaying! So: The reason I am doubting that you really think anger is okay is because of...The words of Mr. Joss Beaumont the Master of Taoist Texts himself!! In other places Mister Beaumont is frequently very much anti anger and anti rage... Even says lots of quite wise things about this. But then for some strange reason when it is Awaken who is the angry one......Very different opinions, then Mr. Beaumont is quite supportive of Master Awaken's regularly showing plenty of firey temper! Why? {maybe I can answer this tooooo, later } But first---what are the wisest things Joss Beaumont the Master of Taoist Text has warned us about anger?~ Section 1 The first part is where Taoist Text gives us translations of ancient teachings---- 100% of them I can agree on! 1~Not Taoist but Christian Bible teaches on anger: It is going to lead people to downfalls and self destruction Very true! 2~Real sages who know using 'the mechanism of Tao' will accomplish their goals {even it is a decisively violent goal} without anger......not put themselves above other people......not spread harsh Qi....... That is another good translation by Mr Beaumont, and a teaching that is excellent! 3~Limiting angriness is the foundation and root......Liu I-Ming lived a long time after Qiu Chu-chih, but they agreed on this. Also a good translation! Maybe you forget some details of what you translated because your work is very prolific? 4~This one has obvious implications that anger, conflict, strife, fighting, blaming......all prevent people from ever finding the Tao. Another important teaching for reflection by all people taking the Path~ 5~Even 內業! This one is also a beautiful teaching from the sages of the faraway past~Good karma and merit for you to share it in translation!! Section 2 The second part Taoist Text has shared his own thoughts about anger, not translating---- lots of wise points as well! 6~Here, Mr Beaumont tells some descriptions of symptoms of "走火入魔 zǒuhuǒ rùmó ‘roving fire, entering demons’": This is some pretty good observations too. We could apply it to anybody with these symptoms......so why doesn't he apply this diagnosis to Master ______? 7~This is straightforward and simple I think (I didn't cut the list, there was only #1 & #2. According to Mr Text, anger is the 1st 'red-flag' ) 8~West and East? Sounds like familiarrrrr description of ______~~so it is OK if it is an eastern Taoist, but not a western Taoist?? Seems unfair to western ones if they are not allowed to do what Taiwanese Taoists can do!! 9~Succinct Really really. Really sad. 10~Some medical advice Good point. Very angry people probably can have some Qi imbalances and should perhaps watch for their health a bit. 11~medical advice part II Have you warned your friend yet? 12~All about: "super angry outbursts of neidan gibberish laced with insults" (Never seen this before......) Well, Awaken does not do those orbits, but......otherwise......Aren't you kind of describing some very similar things?? 13~Anger and paranoia: Yes, seldom too much of one without some of the other~~we have seen that here too~ 14~the Eloquent Conclusion...... Very well put indeed,indeed,indeed。 Luckily we have seen no 'wishing death' but plenty of 'being extremely angry' with 'an opponent in a dispute or on a competitor in the spiritual services marketplace'. ~~~~~ If we study the 14 quotes of Taoist Texts about anger, we will learn quite a bit. If we apply it to the person who he is always saying is being a very normal and typical Neidan master with all of her anger, actually we should be very worried about her, and very concerned. So something is a little bit confused, or somebody has changed his mind...... *Or somebody has maybe a philosophy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend?"*

Okee, but it's just that by using one of the Taoism skills imparted from Dr. Lee Fong-mao (the one who we talked about) it seems maybe you are not being totally....... Straightforward or honest?...... Or maybe there is a little bit of confusion or changing in your mind recently? I am very sorry to be rude and I try to choose the words extra carefully. I am not just randomly saying stuff. Actually: I can really demonstrate what I mean exoterically. But also I can drop it if you want. Mr Beaumont! As they say in France: Ooh la la! This question is very private, even more private than to ask a man what is the size of his 'little chicken' I guess this website isn't so good for shy people! But in fact, no problem. It is already 2022, no need for everybody to be shy and secretive like the ancient period. I can answer you, but I want no confusion. I visited many different neidan groups and temples before, also consulted many different relevant books. The simple fact is not everybody agrees on what is 'THE neidan' or 'i have the neidan' and so on. Some concepts are quite crazy. I need to clarify that we are talking about the same things, please clarify for me these questions: Please define in plain language what your exact meaning of 'the neidan' is Do you have it? What are all of the signs of having it? Which signs did you have? How did you verify it is not the delusion neidan [幻丹] Who has confirmed your neidan? What is the name of the person or the people or Hsien [仙] who confirmed for you? I think that is it, enough to have no confusion or miscommunication between anybody. I promise to reply to you after you clarify with 100% the same candor and directness as you, no funny business. This is not so hard to establish, but needs work. We can finish #1 and #2, then get to the #3 task after

The hasty hasty hasty boy You are welcome! For.......? Didn't you learn in lots of stuff in life it is not good to "come to conclusions" prematurely? That is a good way to make your companions and colleagues a little bit let down. It's the same rule in: Conversations Researching Making sweet sweet love I am observing that so far you are missing the ball in #1 and #2. Hopefully that only is because you are very focused on saving your patience for #3----you must have a verrrry satisfied lover, Mr. Joss Beaumont of Spying & Walnuts........ ............................... My point was: 'Taoist values', it is not possible to define, because the scope of Taoism is too broad and too old. Some people think anything from the Monkey King stories to the Book of Change can be "Taoist values." Some people think Kong Ming in a novel is Taoist values. I can even tell you a famous Hanlin advisor to the Kang-hsi emperor was also a Taoist 'neidanist' who thought buying fourteen years old sex slave girls for yin-yang practice is a good 'value'. Awful but true. Over 3000 years Taoist values is a big messy soup with any ingredient we can think of. So---- I'm just focusing on the basic 'values' of the founders of the Way that Awaken (and you too?) claim to have mastered and represent. Congratulations to you too! I am pleased to notice you concede this problem. Modern politicians are showing us every day: Any so-so mind can find a way to {appear to} win a debate, but only a great mind can see when he has lost one I can tell Before I 'go on' and explain the story of Sun Pu-er throwing rocks and some other stuff let me ask you one question: Do you really mean what you are saying about anger and Awaken now? I don't want to waste time to explain some things if you are just joking and will say 'actually I never meant what I am saying' or something like that ...... Is this sincerely what you believe about these things? Or simply a position in a debate for a little amusement? Sorry I want to be sure

蛤~~~~~? Did you become a member of this website by accident? And repeatedly join the threads about neidan to try to... Disinterest yourself??? Or maybe just here to share some feelings of passionate love for somebody special? No problem with that, Qiu Chu-ji is not here at the moment, and I think we are not monks and nuns, it's ok to have a little crush Actually when you meet a sentence like the one that you rejected it is always best to ask: -Was something lost in translation? -What is the context? What-who-when does it apply to? -What is the meaning in between the lines? -Does it means something different than I think? Thennnnnnn you might start to know if this 'philosophy/religion/whatever......proclaims this', or if we need to keep digging to discover what it is really proclaiming. Mr. Texts wrote '貪愛' as 'passionate love' but that is not the only way

Ha ha, yes I think you are right on that! It's ok, I will stay here since I don't think this thread can "unclog" any more and we are discussing about some things that still relate to earlier pages on this thread. Dr. Lee is a close friend of some neidan teachers in Taiwan. This is public information but I can't tell you what he is learning from them. The only reason is I don't know, because I have learned other things from him quite a long time ago, not neidan. We are not close, so I can't telephone him to say 'hi some people on a website would like to know if you are a practitioner of this or that thing'! I hope you understand I have learned some practices from different neidan teachers in my time researching in China and also in Taiwan. Actually, no you don't understand If you want to know my P.O.V. if a story reflects Taoist values, please say to me: "do you think it reflects Taoist values?" If you ask me this about the flood story, I will say: But what are Taoist values? The Taoist Canon has Hanfei-tzu, Sun-tzu, and Lieh-tzu inside of it! Just from these three books you can find all kinds of strange and even crazy ideas. Lots of people say the Legalist Hanfei-tzu is a favorite inspiration of harsh policies of Chinese communism, which is not so much what we usually think of for Taoism. But if his book can be in the Taoist Canon, this means Taoist values are not too easy to determine......Maybe almost impossible. For this discussion I am only interested in the flood story because you brought it to us to say that Qiu is not teaching some "mundane" 慈悲 (English: compassion) as we think... And you brought this story to justify Awaken being quite cruel to people here, suggesting getting angry and showing cruelty is ok and normal for Taoist masters. But if this story is just some modern comic book, or maybe just some random mistake on a Baidu page (perhaps based on a Jin Yong novel??), or some Buddhist story or folk tale mistakenly assigned to Qiu Chu-chi, then I think your P.O.V. is a bit wacky. This is why I ask you: besides Baidu and a comic book, what is your source for this tale? Does any Complete Reality book contain it? If so, please tell me which one. Then we can have a real answer for the real question I am asking: does this story reflect taoist values Does this story reflect Qiu Chu-chi's or Complete Reality values? For below: you did a very good job in your translation!!! I'm excited to see that. I removed the top and bottom paragraph to focus on the stanza which has the sentences I begged you to review. And you did do very nice work capturing their essence! here is what i have: 其五 神光灿 The Spiritual Light’s Radiance 推穷三教，诱化群生，皆令上合天为。慕道修真，行住坐卧归依，先须保身洁净。内常怀，愍物慈悲。挫刚锐，乃初心作用，下手根基。 欵欵磨砻情性，除贪爱、时时剪拂愚迷。福慧双全，开悟自入希夷。灵台内思不疚，任纵横，出处何疑。彻头了，尽虚空，裁断是非。 Explore the three teachings to the end, they are about the salvation of all living things, everything is given from above by Heavenly will. Those who perfect the truth, admiring the Tao, walking, sitting, standing and lying down should practice it single-mindedly, keeping pure peace in the body from beginning to end. In the bosom constantly there must be mercy and sympathy for all beings. In the beginning, you should remove your hardness and sharpness, this is the beginning of work and laying the foundation. Slowly and relentlessly polish your character, uproot feelings of passionate love, cut and sweep away the fetters of ignorance every hour. Combining both the good deeds and prajna, realization will open, entering into the invisible and inaudible. Then the abode of the spirit inside will not be ill, it will unfold freely along and across, based on this, there will be no more doubts. Having reached the end, exhausting the emptiness, the truths and lies will all be forgotten,. Maybe you are tired of me talking about Awaken. Actually I am too. It is sad we have to have this discussion. But......It's important. Because she is coming here to tell people she can represent the real understanding of neidan (and Buddhism too), and with her confidence and energy and seeming language expertise, I can see she has some people believing her. Please remember that you entered Qiu Chu-chi into our conversation as you were saying that her behavior is normal or at least has precedents for a master and teacher of neidan. But I disagreed with you, and then I reminded you about this poem by Qiu Chu-chi. And look at what he says! In the bosom constantly there must be mercy and sympathy for all beings. In the beginning, you should remove your hardness and sharpness, this is the beginning of work and laying the foundation. Slowly and relentlessly polish your character, uproot feelings of passionate love, cut and sweep away the fetters of ignorance every hour. Combining both the good deeds and prajna Only this simple advice that you expertly translated is what I wish for Awaken to consider when she is so angrily telling people they are wrong, evil, liars, and so on.

Actually Weng Pao-kuang(Baoguang) explained things very clearly in 悟真篇注釋 in the Sung times. In the Yuan times Chang Shi-hung mixed Weng's words into the words of Hsueh Shi in 紫陽真人悟真篇三註. Also Tai Shun-li who slightly changed Weng's words in 紫陽真人悟真篇注疏. It is true this made things more confusing. But if you just read 悟真篇注釋 there is only one section about something like 'transfer method' of moving Qi with your mind. This section can easily be proved to be added because it was copied from a medicine book that is also quoted in 紫陽真人悟真篇三註 and also 上陽子金丹大要. So we can still learn a lot from Weng Pao-kuang Too bad you will not be able to read my post of over 50 % agreeing with you......Instead you will think I am just here for bullying you...Maybe I am not the only one who needed a beach holiday?

I think I need an even longer vacation... In practice am in the way of 趙友欽 Chao You-chin, quite a few years~ In researching kind of in the footsteps of Lee Fong-mao That is for the third nostril to decide This is the 'pity' I mentioned about before. So close to the well. Even translating the sign next to the well ('how to obtain and drink water') into other languages, so very smart. But you forgot to drink? Oops! Pretty lucky for you, the water is still waiting for you to take some sips. But only after you realize that uncomfortable feeling you feel is called thirst...... Since you don't mind to brag, you must be a bold and confident gentleman. This is a good thing! You won't mind to share some of your translations of the poem from Qiu Chu-chih that I have asked you to review 10 days ago. It will be nice to see how you understand this poem, and then we can discuss the details together. Mr Louis Cha Leung-yung made up many silly stories about Wang Che, Qiu Chu-chih, Ma Yu and Sun Pu-er...... These stories made him very rich as well. You think nobody else in Chinese history ever made up a story???? Oh no.... You are a Researcher/Translator/Expositor of classical books and you make conclusions from one sentence in a Baidu article? It's just a little bit of a surprise to me If this 'history' or 'legend' or "story" has been 'in circulation throughout the history since Song times', please provide links to classical documents, such as 神仙傳記 方志 集 of legends Even ancient plays or novels or modern academic research Otherwise how do you know this idea was not the random invention or mistake of the Baidu writer, probably some underpaid and overworked 9-9-6 young graduate in suburbs of Beijing? You mean "here is evidence, I admit it is not convincing evidence unless you are pretty drunk, so I will remind you actually there is no such thing as history at all so I will still get all the points." Philosopher! Always thinking of a way to wiggle, your teachers must have written Naughty Boy on your homework until their pens ran out of red ink

Oh so time consuming to do 'pointing out' for you... Time I do not have today, or tomorrow, or Sunday when I plan to be at the beach I will explain what you are not seeing when I am back... Before then, your homework： Review the three tzu lyric poems where 先須保身潔淨，內常懷、愍物慈悲。挫剛銳，乃初心作用，下手根基 comes from. They are to the ancient tzu tune 聲聲慢 but called 神光燦三首 in 磻溪集卷五. Qiu Chang-chun wrote these to address challenges you now face at this very time, but which many people have always faced. You know old Taoists wrote tzu lyrics for people to sing together at gatherings, so maybe you can try to sing them to see if they effect you more. Of course sing alone unless you have a beautiful voice, then we would love to hear, maybe everybody together at KTV and then I'll sing that Dave Wang song (protect your ears ) Review all of the poems by Wang Che speaking of 開心 or 心開. If you still have more questions about what is the meaning then we can discuss some more I don't only give homework, but do it too... if you have a link please direct me to a historical document about the raining and flooding. I always wish to learn more about Qiu Chang-chun but mangas from China are not so useful, like learning history by watching kung-fu films... (ps this homework is not for the sour old part of you that will ignore this suggestion and not even bother to look at the poems and lyrics. It is for the sweet young part of you that is always full of curiosity and flexibility... refreshing openness like a blue sky over a field, not the stale locked up castle. I am talking to the part of you that is excited to learn new things, not the part that is excited to poke people and see if they flinch. Each heart has a bit of both, but proportions will differ in everybody. luckily, they can change too!)

Classsssssssssssssssssssssic But a little bit different from Mr. 王喆...... 王重陽 Wang Ch'ung-yang

Don't be too lazy to share, great scholar... Afraid if you translate it, might make an error? No cheek at all. And just as sure as I am sure you don't even mean or believe half of the things coming from your fingertips when you type (No need for third eye for that )

Seems to be Taiwan Ministry of Education Dictionary---MoeDict. It is excellent for Chinese, but its English translations are only so-so. Actually, none of the Chinese definitions for 開心 say "to make fun of somebody", unless you modify 開心 with a verb such as 拿 or 尋 in front (alone it will never mean this). So you should use the Chinese definitions to learn from...... and check the sample sentences. 1. 啟發智慧思想。北齊·顏之推·顏氏家訓·勉學：「夫所以讀書學問，本欲開心明目，利於行耳。」 2. 以誠心待人。後漢書·卷二十四·馬援傳：「且開心見誠，無所隱伏。」 3. 快樂、高興。紅樓夢·第二十三回：「左思右想，皆是寶玉頑煩了的，不能開心。」老殘遊記二編·第五回：「或者看看天地日月變的把戲，很夠開心的了。」 4. 取笑、開玩笑。如：「別尋他開心。」二刻拍案驚奇·卷十二：「豈知姊妹行中心路最多，一句開心，陡然疑變。」 #1 is "inspire wise thinking." #2. "use sincerity in heart to meet others“。 #3 is 'joy, happiness." #4 can mean to make a joke, but rarely used. If you are interested in Tao, 1+2+3 are all related. #3 will come to you from doing #1 and #2. In modern Chinese, sometimes. Like 道地 and 地道 are the same meaning In ancient Chinese its is even more common. 開 is verb, to open, 心 is noun, heart. Grammar is extremely flexible (some say no real grammar rules...an exaggeration), so the order of noun and verb can change with the same meaning. You don't know this? Now you do, you can try to read Wang's poems a second time. Huh? So there was a rainy day...? Just to consider http://www.zhexueshi.com/paper/5169 Of course you might be right, I have no proof Cruelty and spite in laughing at people is not 開心, it is 尋人開心... I know that you know that Wang Che was not teaching this But you dooooooooo like to play little games with people. Very little 以誠心待人, mostly wiggling in to say something provocative... asking for a response... then wiggling away to a new little game when the response puts light on how you are being silly. Cheeky cheeky

Ahhhhhh I see. I dont know if you realised it but we're only talking about Wang Che because you use his violence to justify the cruel language of Awaken. And you're only in this thread since you came in and told us she's the most advanced adept on this site. There is a thread running through this conversation, linking to strong statements you made two days earlier (just a reminder). Did you change your mind about what you said? I did not notice, but if mean to say that you did, how wonderful! I think should say 'a pity' to be more clear Yet? You make two errors Actually Wang Che did teach to "open their hearts", even using this term.......You can search his poems for 開心 and 心開... Much of his meaning is a borrowing from Buddhism Two, a path of 'opening their hearts or being kind'... This is not mundanity, it the way out of mundanity. If it was useless for "creating dan, the elixir"... Why do the saints you mention focus on it? Even your inspiration, Qiu Chang-chun calls this "foundation": 推窮三教，誘化群生，皆令上合天為。慕道修真，行住坐臥歸依。先須保身潔淨，內常懷、愍物慈悲。挫剛銳，乃初心作用，下手根基。 Such precious reminders. I guess you know the sentence 出泥而不染, describing a lily or lotus flower to be a metaphor for realization in Buddhism。 Yes the flower is very pristine and above the mud. But it has to remain connected to the mud or it is going to wilt. Mundane is the root of transcending. Transcending is the hidden potential of mundane in bloom. Not two, not one... ____________________ Actually this is not the words of a man who is freeing himself of the mundane: Lots of sticky mud around your feet. Luckily mundane is the best (and only) place we can start from For friends who can't read Chinese characters: 先須保身潔淨，內常懷、愍物慈悲。挫剛銳，乃初心作用，下手根基。 First you must keep yourself clean, internally always keeping in your heart to have sympathy and compassion. Soften {the parts of you which are} hard and sharp, this is the workings of beginners mind, and the foundation for getting started {in cultivation) 出泥而不染 Comes out of mud but hasn't any stains

Yes, it's true, usually not much inner teachings will be in these plays, but there can be salacious stories about Lu Tung-pin, possibly for entertaining the audience... Or the monks? Impressive accomplishment. For people who natively read Chinese this is terribly difficult, and who will usually read such things? To read complete works of Ma Tan-yang and Qiu Chang-chun for a foreigner proves thousands of hours of hard work. Easier if you skip 大丹直指 that I do not think is actually by Qiu Chang-chun...... And Awaken might agree it is written later by other people if she will read my post Since you did not read all of Wang Che's works, then it could be easy to focus on stories of his violence and rage. If he really lost control of himself in a rage, of course this is a problem, no matter if he is also meditation master. We should see him as a human, not a perfect being. So maybe he did make this mistake. Or maybe he was peaceful and clear inside, but acting angry, to teach his close apprentices in a way that was acceptable between masters and disciples in a different culture of 1000 years ago. Even if it is appropriate then for this man to roughly teach people who choose to follow him into the mountains in the Chin dynasty, it should not but not appropriate for Awaken to be cursing strangers on a public webpage in 2022. The stories of Wang Che being so harsh are recorded, he was also teaching softness and kindness. Look at his complete works on CText, it is easy to search for the key words of his teaching poems---- 慈悲 compassion, the Way of Kuanyin, he wrote about it 16 times 仁德 virtue of benevolence, like Confucianism, he wrote about it 3 times And in his note 第六論合道伴 says for friends we choose for learning Tao with: 不可相戀，相戀則繫其心，不可不戀，不戀則情相離。戀欲不戀，得其中道可矣。 This means Tao friends 'cannot love each other, because if they love each other will tie up their hearts. Cannot not love each other, because having no love will abandon each other emotionally. Love without falling in love, find the middle path of these, that is suitable.' So, if Awaken has chosen to come here to share Taoist learning with people, maybe she can think a bit of this before next time she tells people they are so terrible. That is the only thing people seem to ask for, not such a remarkable request actually, even kindergarten expects this requirement for children. For you, I hope your research of these ancient poems slowly opens your heart some more. Sorrowful to spend time so close to the words of Wang, Ma, and Qiu but not be transformed, isn't it?

This is a good paper and impressive research. Thanks for sharing. I think the author is accurate about what Ma Tan-yang said in his own writing about learning from Wang Che. Did you read the original work, Yuan play, and Ma Tan-yang and Wang Che essays and lyric poems? As you say, this kind of research is "professional, not role-player"

Would you advise people to do the spiritual practices taught by a teacher who is still in the stage of hallucinatory siddhis and has yet to manifest "virtue, morals, kindness"?