YMWong

I have been told you are a student of this fellow or belonged to the group http://hk.geocities.com/loktooyatsin/myhistory.htm Is that right ? YM

Reasonability of a price always depends on what one receives in return vis-a-vis his expectations, so some people will tell you what they receive is priceless and therefore the cost is extremely cheap. Everyone has a different standard. Anyway, I am afraid to tell you that a 5 star hotel in a main city in China is now in the range of 1-2,000/day AT LEAST and that if you ask some of the (millions) who are managing quite well nowadays they will tell you 22,000 RMB is nothing. An average/decent office job in a city is now about that much, people who search the garbage to collect carton and other recyclable material and run around the city like coolies make an average of 15-20,000 RMB/mo. Things have changed quite fast in China in the last few years ... YM

To "devote your life helping others" you dont need any 'level', you only need to be compassionate enough so you can do it NOW But you choose not to, apparently, so good luck for your search of the 72 YM

http://hk.hkjebn.com/products_cate/products.php?lang=en&cate_id=4&shop=hk Best YM

The author and Frank Kai ("master" Kwan Sai Hung real name) did not take money from Blofeld pockets (thou they may have from his descendants, depending on the copyright situation of his works) but they DID stole money from the gullible who bought their books thinking they were a (real) biography and by teaching others directly (Frank Kai has a school and quite a few students). Please check my old message here http://thetaobums.com/topic/8102-master-kwan-sai-hung/?p=122152 for more details and info. While there is no need to demonize them, I find it unacceptable to excuse them and even less to present them as the good Samaritans. They are just two business people into making money, even if that mean cheating their "customers" YM

[...] according to a book written by a guy you don't know, about another guy you have never met But of course, if that is "acceptable for your purposes" ... good luck! YM

You know a lot then So you don't personally know JC, please correct me if I am wrong, so you don't really know "his level" (to use your words) and yet you are convinced that "there are only 10 ecc ecc" Nice YM

If that was the matter in discussion then I guess your point of there being "10 beings at or above JC's level alive on earth, out of nearly 7 billion people" should change more to something in the range of hundreds of thousands, no? YM

I am sorry but I don't get your point: if those people you mention are "beyond a level you could ever dream of reaching" why would their practice be garbage? YM

MPG, somebody who is in kindergarten does not need a PHD from Harvard as a master - any primary school teacher can do The problem is that people have too high expectations and, very often, think so high of themselves that cannot accept anything less then a Nobel Laureate for mentor YM

Of course, but even with jobs you can have a great one, with lots of career opportunities, where you are treated well and you make good money ... or you have one of those shitty positions in a meaningless company that you hate Life YM

If I travel of my own volition to a different country I am bound to follow the local law If then I commit an offense and I get arrested I cannot say "nobody told me" or "in my country we do otherwise" even if that is the case. It doesn't work like that So while, as I said, one can empathize with Jim's situation that is not a reason to put the blame on the "cultural diversity" alone Moreover, as I said, Jim seems to accept easily that somebody (Kosta) get kicked out from the school but when the same thing happens to him that is not acceptable anymore. This again rules out much of the "cultural diversity" problem, in my opinion YM

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AJ51Y05MNW0JT/ref=cm_pdp_rev_title_1?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R3O932P2LE0Z0J Dao for dollars., May 1, 2013 This review is from: Tao Jiao Lei Fa: Taoist Thunder Magic Traditions and Their Relationship to Nei Kung Meditation (Kindle Edition) The work listed here, and others attributed to "Shifu Lin" have no real Daoist content, but are made up by the behind-the-scenes author for the purpose of making a profit, misleading readers both into believing that such a person as Shifu Lin existed, and/or is an orthodox Daoist. The Muo Pai school is also not a legitimate, recognized Wushu school, readers must be warned of the fictional (ie, made up)content of the actual author's works. The use of my name in "contributing" to these works refers to e-mails in which the author's erroneous ideas were hopefully pointed out. Works like these can be catalogued under the general title "Dao for $$$). Not to be recommended for purchase.

Dear Jim, as I read in another thread you are having health problems let me first of all wish you to get well soon! While most probably we can all understand and sympathize with your disappointment may I ask you why you seem to be ready to accept that another guy like Kosta is removed from training: but when it comes to you this is not acceptable anymore? If you have been working, like most of us, you might have been fired before. This happens for various reasons, where "right" or "wrong" very much depends on which side you belong to, but in any case it is always at the discretion of the person who hires you and not to yourself to decide. He may have his own reasons, which you may find hard to understand as you are not in his shoes, but once you are fired you simply look for another job and let this one go. Isn't it that simple? Best YM

Master "Kwan Sai Hung" (actually Frank Kai, born in New York) is a fictional character and Deng's book are totally made up, profusely copying existing works. Also see for instance Poul Andersen, "A Visit to Huashan" in Cahiers d'Extreme Asie 5 (1989-90): "It may be added in this connection that the book [Hedda Morrison's Hua Shan: The Taoist Sacred Mountain in West China], with its fascinating pictures of monks and landscapes, has evidently served as one of the sources for an interesting forgery concerning Huashan, namely Deng Ming-Dao's The Wandering Taoist (San Francisco, 1983). The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself. Thus on p. 59 we read, as part of the hero's account of his experiences during his first ascent of Huashan: "The East Peak Monastery was plain stucco and tile and was composed of groups of four-square buildings set in quadrangles. There were also smaller huts of wood and clay. As they passed a hut set behind an iron bell topped with a stone cup that collected dew, Saihung saw a willow-thin man sunning himself on the terrace. He wore grey robes and a black hat with a jade rectangle sewn to its front. The accolytes told Saihung that he was a sorcerer." But comparison with Plate 38 in Morrison's book makes it clear beyond peradventure that the description is based upon this photograph, and not possibly on independent observation at Huashan. No doubt the picture shows the dew-collecting stone cup above the iron bell, but closer scrutiny reveals that in fact the cup is standing at some distance behind the bell. It is thus only the photographic angle that makes it possible to see "an iron bell topped with a stone cup" (in itself, of course, a rather unlikely concept). " YM

Qingcheng Mountain suffered a lot during Sichan earthquake a few years ago, some of the old temples went to rubble http://cd.qq.com/a/20080606/000137_7.htm YM

Transmission (from Encyclopedia of Daoism by F. Pregadio) The simplest form of transmission in China was pedagogical. A teacher such as Confucius orally passed on his learning to his pupils who recorded his wisdom for later posterity. An erudite might also personally present a text containing his wisdom to a deserving recipient. Another type of transmission appeared in the “weft texts” (weishu 緯書; see *taoism and the apocrypha) that were popular during the reign of Wang Mang (r. 9–23). Those texts were the repositories of myths, and each was associated with one of the Confucian classics. A “dragon-horse” bearing the eight trigrams (*bagua) of the *Yijing on its back emerged from the Yellow River to convey them to Fu Xi伏羲 who copied them. A yellow dragon bearing theChart of the [Yellow] River (Hetu) on its back crawled out of the river and presented it to *Huangdi. A giant, black tortoise carrying a talisman in its beak came forth from the water, placed it on an altar before Huangdi and departed. A numinous turtle with theWrit of the Luo [River] (Luoshu) imprinted on its cinnabar red shell in azure script emerged from the Luo River and transmitted it to Cangjie 倉頡, a divinity known as the inventor of writing. (On these two charts, see the entry *Hetu andLuoshu.) The trigrams, chart, talismans (*fu), and texts were tokens that confirmed Heaven’s conferral of the mandate on the ancient sage kings, and they became essential elements of Taoist rituals and ordinations. On June 11 of 142, the Most High Lord Lao (Taishang Laojun 太上老君), i.e., Laozi deified (*Laojun), descended to Mount Heming (*Heming shan, Sichuan) and bestowed the Dao of the Covenant with the Powers of Orthodox Unity (zhengyi mengwei 正一盟威) on *Zhang Daoling. This tradition, perhaps a later fabrication, was another sort of transmission, a personal revelation to a living human from a deity. What Zhang precisely received on that occasion is not at all clear since various sources supply different titles. Evidence seems to indicate that the works of Zhang or other *Tianshi dao leaders included registers (*lu), talismans, petitions, and codes. Later in the Six Dynasties, the priesthood, Zhang’s successors, was responsible for inducting juveniles and young people into the faith. The rites involved transmitting registers. Scriptural transmission. The *fangshi introduced another form of transmission involving arcane texts, some of which made their way into the alchemical tradition of Taoism. *Ge Hong traced their transmission back to *Zuo Ci (fl. ca. 200) and was one of the recipients of works at an altar (tan 壇) in the mountains of what is now northeast Jiangxi. There he received from his master three texts on alchemy under an oath of covenant (meng 盟) as well as secret oral instructions (koujue 口訣) on their meaning that could not be written down (see *Taiqing). Originally, a deity (*shenren) had bestowed them on Zuo who in turn transmitted them to Ge’s uncle, *Ge Xuan, who passed them on Ge’s master, *Zheng Yin. Ge Hong mentions another form of transmission involving the * Sanhuang wen (Script of the Three Sovereigns). Immortals hide copies of it in caves on all of the sacred mountains. When a person qualified to attain the Dao enters one of the mountains and earnestly meditated, its god will open the grotto and permit him to view the text. The process, however, was a little more complicated, as there were two traditions concerning the revelation of the scripture; but in both cases the text appeared spontaneously on the walls of grottoes after the persons stared at it or meditated and fasted. When they were able to discerning the writing, the two left pledges, copied the scriptures and departed. Transmission and revelations in the Six Dynasties. The oldest reliable accounts of divine transmission to humankind date from the second half of the fourth century. Between 364 and 371, a dozen or so of the Perfected appeared to *Yang Xi in nocturnal visions to bestow upon him more than ten *Shangqing scriptures and hagiographies as well as more than forty scrolls of oral instructions. Of all the Taoist revelations that occurred between 142 and 400, this is the only one that appears to have been the product of true ecstatic experience because Yang and his patrons, the Xus 許, kept detailed transcripts of the epiphanies. The influence of older occult sources is evident in the scriptures; the visions may have been nothing more than instruments for reshaping earlier writs and procedures to conform to Yang’s new insights and agenda. In the fifth century, the *Lingbao order added a new twist to the lore of transmission. They contended that their scriptures had emerged before creation as coagulations of *qi (pneuma). After the gods appeared, the Celestial Worthy of Original Commencement (Yuanshi tianzun 元始天尊; see *sanqing) had the texts cast on gold tablets and stored in his celestial archives. Thereafter, he granted lesser deities access to them if they underwent the proper rituals. Five eons passed before the Celestial Worthy decided it was time transmit the texts to a mortal. At his behest three of the Perfected descended with a cortege of carriages, an escort of cavaliers and a retinue of immortal lads and jade maids in the millions. That host landed on Mount Tiantai (*Tiantai shan, Zhejiang) where the Perfected bestowed the scriptures, one by one, on Ge Hong’s uncle who had made himself worthy of receiving them by suffering through innumerable reincarnations and having compassionately vowed to strive for the salvation of all mankind. Transmission and ordination. These traditions, however fanciful, served a purpose. They established the sanctity of the scriptures as direct gifts from the gods. They also laid the foundations for mundane transmissions of sacred texts. Once the texts found their way into human hands it was the responsibility of the recipients to pass them on to worthy recipients. By the fifth century with the appearance of the first liturgy for ordinations, compiled by *Lu Xiujing, the process of transmission became codified (see *Lingbao shoudu yi). Taoist investitures were the liturgical confirmation of a master’s transmission of texts to his disciple and were overwhelmingly juridical in nature. There were three legal formalities required of ordinands. The first were covenants by which they bound themselves to the gods and promised to venerate the scriptures. The punishment for violating such pacts was condemnation to the dark prisons of eternal night in hell. The second were vows. Ordinands gave their word that they would be temperate, chaste, compassionate, humane, benevolent, tolerant, and filial. The third were oaths. Ordinands swore never to transmit the canon indiscriminately, reveal its contents, violate its admonitions, converse or disparage the scriptures, or bestow the texts for a fee. To guarantee that they would never breach their word, they had to submit pledges in the form of gold, cash and textiles.

Yes, I stand corrected, nice to see somebody with knowledge and wisdom once in a while on this board YM

Well, if you want to start your spiritual journey and become a "monk" based on a lie with the authorities or overstaying your tourist Visa (this is what many young foreigner do in China) I would personally question your motivations in first place. Sorry to be straightforward Best YM

In China too, according to the law you need a degree to obtain a real Visa Among all the traditions you are interested in, and they are a lot (too many IMHO), I would say that Tibetan Buddhism has the greater amount of good teachers overseas. Just find one such group near to you and start to get acquainted but don't look too far, just take things easy and walk step by step. You will realize that most of the pre-conceived ideas you have might be totally wrong so, on the way, you will make HUGE adjustments to your plans Best YM

Are you white? Do you have a degree? Do you have a TEFL? YM