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I'm looking for what opinions are on here esp from experienced posters on this topic? I just want to take responsibility for this side of my life and be able to experiement safely while tying up some loose ends from my past and bad habits I've picked up that are causing me spiritual and magical issues. I've had some shitty experiences in the past before dabbling with stuff irresponsibly. As in: bring up traumas, become a sex addict, fuck myself up energetically (or something - idk what it was), have nightmares nightly, etc. I more or less /have/ to do it because I need to tie up some loose ends and my way of dealing with issues is to lean towards them by informing myself rather than turn away. I'm currently looking at Josephine McCarthy's book on the topic, and Jason Miller. Are these authors good? I swear Josephine makes my OCD act up like hell even though I generally like her. BTW part of the reason I'm seeking this information is because some healing methods I have used work incredibly well for me, but the problem is their authors are new agers - meaning, they assume everything is light and fluffy. I don't. I want to be ready if something goes wrong, and want to know what can since a lot has in the past, and I'm not in a place in my life where I can afford needless risk. I'm sorry all my posts are these questions, I'm not trying to be lazy. I came here to ask after spending lots of time researching multiple book lists, listening to different opinions, and looking at what people from different traditions seem to think regarding this stuff.

Hey guys! I apologize if this isn't the right section, I wasn't sure where to post this question since it's not just about one system or other. Please move it to the appropriate section if this isn't the right one for it! There's going to be a lot here, so here goes: I've been doing occult stuff since I was like, 15. Some of it worked really well for me, and I credit it for helping change my life. Though obviously, I can't know what was just caused by my brain developing.. LOL. Either way, I used to struggle with /everything/ as a kid, including basic social awareness - hell, I used to do echolalia for hours on end, and whisper to myself in public. Some of this stuff seems to have helped me get out of that. It helped me feel empowered and like an actual person like other people around me naturally seemd to. But obviously, if you start that young, you'll do stupid shit! And I did. Lots of stupid shit. I've even made the most classic rookie mistake of all time: Mantak Chia's stuff! Though I didn't do the 'energy' stuff, except once or twice. I've never trusted stuff like imagining energies going into my brain or anything - I don't even trust medication without a few google searches, let alone energies. I even avoided the third-eye point when doing EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques). I did the Mantak Chia stuff because I thought it was just a Kegel exercise type thing.. lol, does doing it just like that harm you? I can believe it might since the nerves in that region are pretty sensitive. I do notice some side-effects. As you guys can probably tell, I am a bit OCD. Now I'm in my 20's and I've been wondering: what are best practices for safety? I don't mean, "Is x method the safest?", I mean what are general principles to maximize safety, how do you deal with Qi Deviation and psychosomatic issues, how do you mix things like Qigong and western magic without well, blowing up? So far what I've heard is this kind of stuff, but I'm a beginner technically so there may be errors: Always stay calm - don't take things too seriously, don't assume off the bat that spooky stuff is happening, don't take psychosomatic events like tingling to be real as a beginner and lose your cool. Mentally: Don't strive and contrive, get good at acceptance, develop self-awareness and self-knowledge, practice critical thinking, practice being at ease, don't load everything with intent, etc. Physically/magically/energy-wise: ground by doing squats and progressive-muscle relaxation, banish energies (for western magick), find a teacher if you can, don't mix methods unless you absolutely know what you're doing, don't do magick carelessly, respect the rules of rituals, etc. What would you add to this? Also, what are practices or technologies/methods every practitioner should use? In the Western tradition that'd be stuff like the LBRP and its variations, right? I want to use occult methods to help me get to a functional baseline - I have no problems with methods that require patience and long-term work as long as they're structured and produce minor daily results. For instance if someone says: "Do the LBRP, it'll help you get a routine and give you a boost of energy" I'd be fine just doing that for a few months. I'm familiar with psychotherapy and most psychotherapy stuff seems to take up to six months to work, so it's no big deal to have to build up. Sorry guys, I know this is a lot. I've honestly just been bursting with these questions for ages. I'm open to advice regarding a better way of seeking advice. Actually, I'm open to advice in general, esp from the more experienced posters here. You've helped a lot in the past! To round it up: 1) I've been doing stuff for like 10 yrs now, but started when I was young and so got up to shenanigans that backfired a little, but also good results (imo) 2) I want to know what the best general guidelines are to maximize your safety. I'm fine with some level of risk - you incur that even just washing your hands. I just want to go slow, steady, and get to a healthy baseline. Especially since I have had side-effects. 3) What are methods and practices everyone dabbling with this stuff, eastern and western, should know/use? Includes stuff like: Total beginner stuff, fundamentals, things that'll help you always, and so on. 4) I've had bad results from mixing methods in the past. How can you mix eastern and western methods without effing up? I ask because I have used eastern methods in the past (EFT) and they work for me, but using it with some other stuff seemed to cause issues. I was using subliminal tapes and so I actually don't know what energies or things conflicted and so on. The creator wasn't transparent about what he was doing. I use EFT, which works with qi (I think? It's acupressure) for psychological aid - how can I do this without trouble? 5) What are the best firefighting methods? Ideally you don't get a fire, but once you do, what do? I know Zhengyongdaoist tends to recommend you call upon a certain Daoist deity of compassion, for instance. I also know you should take rest for a few weeks if you fuck something up - this, generally, has worked well for me as well. Likewise stuff like physical exercise, going out for a walk, etc. Sadly I'm stuck at home and struggling with mental health and the pandemic, so can't do those. I had other questions too but these are enough for now. It's fine to just direct me to resources btw! I can do my own reading, though I don't have any money right now. As for why I want to use this stuff, and what for: I just want to be able to live in peace, and use it to make small steps towards getting better - for instance, boost my energy a bit, more mental clarity, make the odds work in my favor when I want to find doctors so I can find good, ethical ones, do better in my studies, etc. Also, without causing stuff to get worse, lol. My country is not the safest one to be in, and I struggle, so I just want to develop this skillset so I can do a bit better and preferably live with contentment. I'm fine with total rookie methods as long as they work. If you've read this far, I appreciate it. I know it's a lot, I just need guidance since I feel a bit lost.

That's interesting. Thanks for the advice, Lairg. I'll take it into account when looking at what to do!

That's interesting. I already try to maintain a right relationship with the stuff inside me, though I mostly use Internal Family Systems-type stuff and Inner-Relationship Focusing to do it. I just struggle due to my OCD and internal tensions and ridigity. Would that be similar? It's more or less just being accepting and curious towards whatever is inside you and finding out why its doing what its doing.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, isn't this Spirit Replacement Therapy? I think it was made by William J. Baldwin or something?

How though? There's so many different views on this issue, and sometimes it's conflicting info. As a total beginner it's pretty confusing, especially since there's magicians who advocate for a kinda, "Fate matters, don't fuck with anything, your attempts to make things better might itself draw predators" type view - idk if that's what they mean, but that's what I'm getting from it right now.

Lol! Nice one. I doubt I'd be able to invoke if I banished in that case.. This makes sense to me, yeah. I settled on not doing the LBRP and mostly just sticking to easy, low-weight folk methods instead of using it as I felt like I don't know enough about these somewhat nuclear-grade methods (compared to lighter ones I mean..) to be deploying them in a house I share with multiple people and animals during a pandemic where any changes may be harmful. Also felt like the 19th century western schools were kind hardcore and that I don't know enough about what I'm summoning/calling upon. Basically, just felt not ready enough and an inner sense of discomfort.

I saw a post on r/occult today that basically asked, why in Golden Dawn adjacent magick do people in the outer order banish and not invoke, and how does this not lead to a huge imbalance of energies? I'm curious since I've been considering the LBRP for a while now (haven't done it, since I'm learning about all this stuff before doing anything) but now am hesitant.

Dw I was just kidding. I think it didn't come over on text or something. Nurses are normal, the ones I've met either didn't talk much or were nice to me. Are these Satanists the real deal or are these guys like the Satanic Church I think it was, who're just trolling to make a larger point? Yeah I think the bad ones are probably a vocal minority. Now doctors on the other hand.. genuinely 50/50 in my country! Must've been a really annoying one if you wanted to physically assault them hahaha

What do you mean, brother? Of course Satan would like vaccines!!! Nurses are evil, I tell ya hwat! Here's something that'll tickle your funny bone, though: when I was about to type 'Satan', the poltergeist activity in my house acted up again. (((internal screaming)))

If it's ok with you, can you explain how it works? Also, what is that? I've actually never heard of it before hahaha. Google turned up nothing when I searched for LBRG

This makes a lot of sense. I agree w/ this, and your other comment has given me much to think about. I live in a bit of a chaotic environment so connecting with it is difficult, but I believe I can make it work somehow. I think I'll start with just developing a healthy stretching routine and simple things like that and build up. Thanks for the advices, friend!

Wow, thanks for the informative reply!! Much appreciated. This makes a lot of sense. Does the LBRP banish anything that is beneficial? My mother for instance thinks my grandfather likes to visit and well.. I don't know how much sense that makes, but better safe than sorry.

This is amazing! Right down my alley. It reads a bit like Han Shan, in spirit at least.

The Dao that doesn't wear cool hats is no Dao, my brother!! I once knew a sage who would constantly talk about how many hats they wore. They even had cool names like 'Father' 'Mother' 'CEO', etc.

I'm happy to get a reply from you, as I consider you very informed! Thanks for clearing up my doubts. I'll keep this in mind! Do you have any advice for a beginner on how to start and do so safely?

How do you follow what the Dao de Jing tells you to do? My completely mundane, but interesting experience: when I keep my body calm, and my mind relaxed but alert, sometimes everything seems to flow well. I also connect to my 'gut' easier, and know the next step more easily and can draw upon my experiences to create new ways of dealing with things easily. I don't think that's the Dao, but it does show the importance (imo) of training your mind and body to be calm but alert.

I have, from all of the above. In regards to the Christian methods, it's harder to do so if you're using methods like discursive meditation, just contemplating the goodness of God (note: not meditative contemplation, I mean verbal contemplation) and also the Christian prayer I did generally relies in my personal experience on the power of God to empower you to pray - I've been able to pray for upwards of an hour or two on end with high intensity with little harm. It is cleansing, uplifting, and efficacious. However, if you use 'Charismatic' or Pentecostal methods you can absolutely get fucked up bad in my opinion. They nick so much from New Age shit you don't know what you're mixing with what. Likewise with trying to do stuff like force the 'Baptism of the Holy Ghost' without any clue if you're doing something recommended and appropriate or not can lead to delusions, I think. I have also had poltertgeist-like activity start around the same time I started mixing up stuff and getting lazy and impatient, which I just took as a punishment for blasphemy, lol. Either that or it was caused by me thinking that way! Re the qigong stuff, I've come to harm by mixing acupressure-based methods with Western magick stuff. I don't know wtf I was using at the time since I'm so unfamiliar with western magick and the guy whose products I was using was completely untransparent except he mentioned energies and so on. There are also some popular methods like variations on EFT that are popular for wrecking people. Likewise I think there's a real risk of reifying psychological and psychosomatic events and conditioning yourself when you try to play with chi/some force you're imagining as real (even if it exists, your imagination is a problem imo), and that's one of the harms I deal with - constant tingling bullshit and low-level sexual arousal! Also weird urges and shit. I can turn it off by grounding, though, usually. So no biggie.. I kid, it's irritating! I wanna be a cowboy, not a deviant.. As a Christian, I did 'meditation' - that is, internalized prayer with eyes closed, trying to use rigid phrases and stuff, briefly. Generally speaking, I found that trying to use prayer to control my inner experience was very bad for me psychologically, whereas praying in a verbal way, to God, was fairly harmless. But any attempt to control or condition my inner experience lead to altered states of consciousness and shenanigans like sexual hyperarousal and such. Annoying, and harmful. That issue was unfortunately inherited by meditation in general for me. So no breath meditation for me without being able to focus on the external world, or everything gets wonky. I tighten, start to strive, my lower back starts to tremble.. all that stuff like that. Depends on what I'm doing. Not intense or anything, and I believe it's linked to intent. A greyness arises in me, and I get headaches and a sense of malaise within. A fuzziness type of thing. It's just classical conditioning or dissociation, or my brain getting confused, imo. Mantras have energetic effects on me that are not unpleasant but that I feel I need experienced practitioners to explain: for instance, chanting the Nembutsu even once sometimes makes me feel a lot better, but it's a blissful experience almost. I don't think it's dangerous, in fact it seems to make all the general negativity I feel go away but since idk what's going on and I feel like other doubts I have regarding Buddhist doctrine itself make it feel disrespectful to the deity, I've reduced it for now. I want to chant honestly if I chant, not induce effects due to on some level wanting effects. I do believe Deities exist, I think, either way, so there is merit in honoring gods (or whatever they are) by keeping your distance when it is necessary, I feel. Those are my side effects and experiences with various spiritual practices. I generally these days mostly rely on language-based, abstraction reliant methods. So like Internal Family Systems and Inner Relationship Focusing, imagining pictures, externalizing my emotions, etc. Head-based stuff, but with bodily engagement on some level. I've heard from another person who has issues with meditation that stuff like that works well for them without the intense side effects that they got from other methods. Long post, but I wanted to share! I hope you can find something useful in my reply. Note that I believe everyone is unique, and I understand that the problems you experience will probably be manifestations of your tendencies - so in my case, excessive control, tightness, rigidity, pushiness is how I've been internally since I was a kid. I take responsibility for that. It was a huge factor, along with my clinical OCD, in experiencing side effects. I don't mean to dismiss the methods themselves, or the traditions they came from. It did me a lotta good. I first learnt self-love and acceptance by doing Christian prayer at the age of 12 - it was shoddy, bad prayer, but it seems whoever heard had mercy on me. It helped a LOT. Defined my life, in my opinion. Potential side-effects and harms, and spiritual issues in general, are now being worked into actual medicine - look up stuff like Qigong syndrome (I think it's called?), Trance Possession Disorder, and the whole section in the DSM called 'spiritual and religious issues' I think it was. So basically, you can't just get called a schizo if you think there's a demon (or deity) possessing you.

The methods that person mentioned can be pretty good, and the modality I'm somewhat familiar with (EMDR) is fairly complex, and high level. However you need a professional for it, and one trained specifically to deal w your issues. re the method you mentioned: I don't think Dave Asprey is a trustworthy source of info. Dude's an online marketer type feller. Many of these methods are in their infancy, it might better to just wait. It's likely he's just popularizing stuff that's linked in some way to helping him make $$$. Not to mention, the "Vagus Nerve" stuff really oversimplifies the neuroscience and biology from what I've read. Hydrodissection seems to have nothing much to do w the vagus nerve from some googling? It seems to be a method for dealing with compressed nerves. I think he's just speculating here, considering the vagus nerve is a huge wellness fad right now.

Hahah, my bad. I'll edit the post to explain the abbreviations. I tend to get anxious and over-write or misapply myself. I'm from India, btw! Oh my lord, I didn't know how to quote properly either :L fixed it

New user here, used to lurk a few years back. Recently been perusing it again. I've found this forum pretty useful in dealing with my OCD, and the posts of some of the members here - the more experienced, grounded ones - have informed my approach to the occult (and even stuff like meditation) a lot. Figured I'd join since I've been getting more actively involved with exploring techniques and technologies and want to do it safely and slowly.