kakapo

We know of no better options. Our choices are to give up or make the best of what we do have.

Then, if every teacher who is able is unwilling to do so, I guess we have to hope another person like John shows up or stick with what we have. We've all spent tens of thousands of dollars chasing fake systems and teachers.

Certainly, a private demonstration under controlled conditions would be better, but if we are talking about evidence that can be mass produced and transmitted, that's as good as it gets.

If we had been wealthy, retired, 18-year-old, ethnically Chinese Indonesian citizens who began training with John in the late 80s and early 90s and had been able to dedicate 100 hours per week to training until the present day, we might have come away with a lot more opportunity than we have now. Many of the criticisms you and others throw at us are not without merit. Jim only gave us training and video of John up to level 2b; that's as far as his knowledge and experience went. Even now that we do have video of John teaching later levels, which has been translated from Indonesian, we don't have people who can answer questions for us if need be. That being said, what other choice do we have? We have looked high and low for good evidence for other systems and not found it. Give us good evidence for a system like Mo Pai, and we'll jump ship. I think the only reason a person should pursue Mo Pai is that they've examined all the alternatives and found nothing comparable in terms of evidence.

It is certainly not my intention to slander anyone, which is why I haven't pointed fingers at anyone. As to your other question, we offer a demonstration for those we feel are serious and need a demonstration to be convinced. It's all done under controlled conditions at their location, and while it's not as powerful as what John provided, it usually does the job.

If I engage in a game of Clue, then by process of elimination, everyone here can figure out "It Was Colonel Mustard with the Lead Pipe in the Kitchen." That said, I don't even know who you are. If you do demonstrations for people with electric qi, then ruling out such a device is very easy. Strip down to shorts, do your demos barefoot, and show them the soles of your feet. The device we caught the person using has a negative ion generator and a metal plate on the bottom of the user's shoe. Wearing shorts and being barefoot should clear you pretty quickly. It pulls negative ions from the ground and pushes them into the person's body, creating static-like effects like these: I hope that helps.

We don't know of any better alternatives; we've searched high and low and haven't found any good evidence of anything else. We need a teacher who will bring in a team of scientists and medical doctors, travel to a random location they choose, strip naked, be checked for metal, and deliver a demonstration such as powering an LED, all on camera. If we find that, we will all jump ship from Mo Pai to whatever school or system that may be in a heartbeat.

I can't point fingers without serious repercussions. I foresee that making such an accusation would start a conflagration of epic proportions between their students and myself. I am sure the staff here on the forum wouldn't take kindly to such an event. It's best not to open that can of worms.

When it comes to evidence that can be easily mass produced and transmitted to others, we are very limited. We can record the event on video with audio, audio only, or text. We can record personal testimony on audio and text, in which we must take the author's word that the event occurred as they believe it did. We know that the human mind is prone to self-deception, selectively remembers some things, ignores others, and distorts memories to fit worldviews. We know that human memory is fallible. In court, multiple eyewitnesses can give drastically different testimonies of the same event for these very reasons. Video, though it can be altered and doctored, is the best choice to help address these issues. It is why police departments use body cameras, we use dash cams, and banks use high-resolution cameras. Video acts as a safeguard for fallible human memory and perceptions. The best-case scenario I know of is to have doctors and scientists present to do their best to rule out fraud and capture the event on video. Having them record their personal thoughts on the matter in writing is inconsequential. I personally have, yes. I, however, have not seen any compelling evidence for any other system besides mo-pai or tummo. There was a member of a famous lineage who demonstrated such abilities on YouTube, and he was offered $10,000 USD for a 15-minute demonstration that would occur at a hotel close to his house under controlled conditions with no cameras present if he didn't want to be filmed. He refused. Another famous person here on this forum is claiming similar abilities. We traveled to him and found him wearing the device I mentioned in the previous post. Collectively, we could have purchased several homes for all the money we've spent traveling to China, chasing leads, only to come back empty-handed. I and the rest of the group are open to there being other systems that do this, but we've seen no good evidence at this time for it.

I posted the video above. John invited a team of scientists and medical doctors to investigate him. They stripped him down to his shirt and underwear and used a metal detector to check him for metal before getting a demonstration. They then repeated this at a random location they chose, in an effort to rule out some device on his property causing the effect. Certainly in this day and age, not everyone will accept this as evidence, and we all wish that there had been subsequent replication studies of this with different researchers. That said, it is the best evidence we know of. Right now, for other arts, there are a lot of YouTube videos; however, there are no scientists or medical doctors who make a best-case effort to rule out fraud. Much of what we see on YouTube can be replicated using negative ion generators and infrared lasers. Fun fact: A member of our group caught a teacher who is highly recommended on thedaobums using a negative ion generator device that is worn in the shoe and has a metal collection plate on the bottom of the shoe. A device much like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Magic-Electric-Gimmick-Mesika/dp/B00LPC1X80

That may be true; however, we would need at least the same type and quality of evidence John provided before investing our lives in such a system. Collectively, we could own several houses had we not spent thousands upon thousands of dollars chasing dead ends. Other people may not require evidence to pursue a system, and that is fine if they are comfortable with that.

What you claim is true, assuming it's a reader's choice award. We wish people would examine the evidence themselves and draw their own conclusions, though.

I've come here to ask the mods, admin, and owner to please listen. Those I know personally all agree it seems impossible for anyone who likes Mo Pai to express that viewpoint here on this forum. If some member trolls and accuses us of "sticking wires in our buttocks," or that our practice causes cancer, or who knows what else, if we say anything in defense of that attack, we are suspended for spamming, and then eventually banned, while the people slinging the mud are allowed to retain membership here. It doesn't seem to matter how polite or respectful any of our members are, it always results in suspension for spamming, and then a ban soon thereafter. We are labeled as the aggressors, the trolls, and those who hate the practice are allowed to continue on as they always have. Other people come to this forum to research Mo Pai and come away with the impression that we all stick wires in our buttocks, die of cancer, and belong to a cult. None of that is true, but that is the impression they come away with. What can we do as a group to counter this misinformation without you perceiving us as the aggressors and trolls? What can we do to prevent being suspended for spamming when we say "no, we don't put wires in our buttocks"? From our perspective, this behavior is bullying, harassment, and cruel. Words hurt, and not being allowed to defend your friends, family, and practice only adds insult to injury. It seems to me that there has to be some middle ground here.

John taught Kosta and Jim; they were part of the lineage. Many of our members received direct training from them. We retain their videos of John providing instruction. That is how lineages work: transmission from teacher to student. Teachers die, and students become the next generation of teachers. We'll have to agree to disagree if you feel otherwise.

Let's say this were a pottery forum, and Jane and Co. made pottery. If 20 different forum members started claiming that Jane and Co. stuffed their pottery in their buttocks, used chemicals in their pottery glazes that caused cancer, and had a cult that used slave labor, how long do you think Jane and Co. would stay in business? I would venture to guess Jane and Co. wouldn't stay in business very long if the entire pottery community started repeating those claims. That would be libel and defamation of character. Words hurt, whether we pretend they don't or not. Imagine now that Jane from Jane and Co joined the pottery forum to state that no, we don't stuff pottery in our buttocks, we don't use cancer-causing chemicals, and we don't have a cult filled with slave labor. Imagine her surprise when she is suspended for spamming and then banned for it, and the same for all her other employees and even happy customers. There is nothing even remotely similar to spam in that situation, and Jane isn't the bad guy.

I am sure it is funny, just not to us. Personally, I think you should have the right to express your opinion here, no matter what it is. As to "Western" Mo Pai, if I boil a chicken egg for 7 minutes at sea level, I get a boiled egg; it doesn't matter if it was cooked in the USA or Indonesia, or if we had the chickens' blessing to boil the egg or not. In this regard, there is no such thing as a Western boiled egg and an Indonesian boiled egg. There is only what John taught, exactly as he taught it on video, or something different from that. It would make all of my group happy at least if you didn't refer to us as "western" mo pai because the connotation is that western mo pai follows different teachings and thus isn't the same as eastern mo pai. Thanks.

The staff contacted us directly and invited us to their forum because they felt bad about our treatment on thedaobums and promised us a safe haven on Originaldao. LOL. We did not save all the discussions in our private forum, but a few key replies were saved. The gist of the situation was that an individual named Shadow_Self, who went by Pegasus1992 over on Original Dao, was able to convince the staff that we were evil and needed to be dealt with. He seems to be very good at that sort of thing. He went so far as to persuade the staff that McMillan and Dervenis were not John's students, and we practiced some other art. The staff demanded we choose a new name to be known by, and we chose "So Mad" students of McMillan and Dervenis. We were told we couldn't post more than once per week right after the name change, and then we were officially banned from the forum shortly after that. Of course, we all still had accounts there; we just couldn't correct lies and misinformation about ourselves and our practices. Just like we all still have accounts here and on various other private forums, but most of us just remain silent.

Just one recent example.

What has me and the rest of the group scratching our collective heads is how "no, we don't stick wires into our buttocks" constitutes spam and is worthy of being banned. The only fair solution appears to be to give both sides a voice or to deny both sides a voice. Right now, the situation we have is that it's acceptable to claim our practice causes cancer, we stuff wires into our buttocks, and our group is a cult. Saying that those claims are not true is considered trolling and spam. I understand life isn't fair, and no one is entitled to free speech on a platform they don't own, but this seems unreasonable to me and every other member of our group.

I love Naruto!

I am Kakapo!