diggorydogood

Deviation related to lung channel. Which are extremely important

You just proved yourself wrong a few sentences later It isn’t necessarily an endless stringing along. As most will say if you just want an active lower dan tian and nothing else, that’s perfectly fine too. Pretty sure on the website the minimum is 10 years. For most that can it’s more. Technically not how it is structured either. If you want to learn just level one you can and that’s it. And I believe that’s about 400 gbp which is a bit of a steal. Or alternatively you don’t have to learn with this path either. But judging from your expertise on the subject, you already know this I suppose…? Well as they say about assumptions…and given that you didn’t know the texts where much of this is described and your name is Taoist Texts while dismissing a sect of daoist philosophy…may be the assumption tracks? The jig is up. I have been found out. You discovered our true purpose is to get others in our cult and meditate…? Our nefarious plans have been cut short thanks to the courageous efforts of Taoist Texts. Huzzah and parades will sing praises unto thee

Very true. I think we mostly need to give that perspective but clearly on the practices to generate proper cultivation, steer clear of it

Not just that - it does cause a major block to the lungs which does heavily affect qi cultivation. It enlivens shen but at the cost of imbalance which will invariably lead to deviation (and over time a lot worse). I think if a person wants to still do it then it’s their choice. But it isn’t for cultivation as it causes deviation almost immediately.

Most teachers will tell you (including Rudi) that out of the thousands of try, a few will be able to do it. I think most understand that expectation and still do it. Much like those that want to be physicians, lawyers, and etc overall who go to university and find this isn’t the trajectory they want in a job or in life. There’s very little difference to that. But it is also explained from the very beginning that it’s not all that. And frankly it isn’t. Bland diets, lots of exercise, some practices you have to do every day, less alcohol and etc to generate energy that feels like an electric current that can do some demos but that’s about it. For most that’s not living. And yet people still do it. What a person decides in their life is their decision of course. But the argument here is that based on your lack of experience with the phenomenon, it must be mass hypnosis or something. Why not visit one of these healers who can do these things and see for yourself?

Yeah this is actually helpful. First off congratulations on your marriage (love is always nice even if it is an initial change of sorts). Obviously acupuncturist will be able to better narrow which organs and channels are out of balance but I can provide a bit of advice here (coming 3 years into a marriage myself while doing nei gong practice / Buddhist practices in between): Diet is so important here. Bad diet probably deviation to stomach or other channels. This directly affects the practices you’re doing and the fatigue. In addition as we know sleep is critical. We are constantly told at least 6 hours in China (but optimum sleep is 7-8 hours if you’re doing any sort of meditation based practices). Less sleep will affect meditation and well anything else you do in your waking life (including the stress of shared space - I know that struggle but it isn’t so bad once you get a rhythm). As for the qi deviation, it can happen in a multitude of ways honestly. Improper diet, improper sleep, improper practice, myriads of things actually. Understand that the initial foundation practices that we have to do focuses on getting qi to flow evenly to the organs in a free and unobstructed path (among other things). Once it is blocked, you still generate qi but at a much less state. I think the acupuncturist can help with the sleep. But you have to amend diet and stress from the new marriage. This does take time but it’s much better investing in the time (or going to a retreat where a healer can clear simple blocks) so you can maximize your practice. But again just my 0.02 on the matter.

This is also not what I meant given the follow up questions. Wholeheartedly agree. Especially given the risk of deviation and overall misconceptions about what’s happening.

I'll also ask why you think these are signs of progress because in most cases, it isn't a sign of progress. It's a sign of deviation at its worst and something less at its best

I’m not understanding what you’re doing exactly so I need to take a step back and ask some follow up questions. To understand: 1. At some point in the day you are performing what is considered stillness (for some period of time). How long are you doing stillness 2. You go to the gym to support your physical body and that you are feeling fatigued quicker. 3. You then place focus on the LDT because hey you felt heat and such and assert mentally hey if I focus here I won’t feel as tired 4. You finish a set and then an hour later you feel fatigued again Is that correct? Also What is your diet consisting of? Sleeping pattern? Stress? Sexual health? Sensations you feel during meditation? Physical sickness (e.g. cold, flu,) and etc. All of this and then some affect on your practice especially in the beginning of your practice. Generally, you’re not necessarily supposed to feel heat radiating over your body during stillness per se. It’s supposed to ideally stay in the lower dan tian so the location of the heat should be minimal and at that area (amongst a few other sensations I won’t really get into). But it sounds like you have some deviation. Have you gone to an acupuncturist locally so they can inform you which organs are out of balance? Are you over concentrating during stillness? Because it sounds like to me you’re not entering stillness you may be entering the void which again it happens to everyone in the beginning. It also seems like you don’t have a proper anchor to the area either and you may be assuming what the area is supposed to feel like and what it anchors to (just from reading a bit of the book you referenced for the actual practice itself). My suggestion here is to find an acupuncturist and potentially get some herbs. I think for most starting out what you’re feeling is health related with knowing the proper practice and proper breathing method. But also, I think you need to understand how to properly focus on the LDT and what sensation should be your anchor. These are also not excellent results nor what success of the LDT practice looks like at all. Again I refer to any Daoist texts which actually describe what happens with proper meditation and what should occur: Perhaps you should read a few of them and come back. For your own education.

I did in another thread. I think you lost it as the only thing you did was laugh but here you go: I thought it did even though you truncated most of the descriptions of the clients who saw the healers who themselves are trained acupuncturists. So I just did a quick google for the tuition for acupuncture school in the United Kingdom for instance in my area: For a bachelors in acupuncture to receive a BSc in Acupuncture the cost for 3 years is about 28,000 GBP for a three year course. For master’s degree (to include herbal medicine and the like) it’s another 20,000 GBP. Overall one is looking at about 48,000 GBP. Uniquely the United States offers similar rates for learning acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine (not including the CCM burgeoning curriculum). The amount of time to complete both is 6-8 years in both countries. But that’s not a problem, right? Understand that while people are learning to fa qi to heal (and it does cost money), many also are learning other healing methods not necessarily disclosed to TCM in theory. I would contend it is like grad school for TCM both in theory and in application. Even if one never learns to fa qi, there is a lot of TCM application that helps their own healing practices. Why is that an issue here?

Talk is very cheap and since I have no idea to validate who you are mkay I guess? They were elderly folks in the Santa Cruz area. They really didn’t travel far. A friend of a friend made a recommendation for them to be seen based on their condition and the little impact acupuncture had. The conditions included: Rheumatoid Arthritis Cancer Parkinsons Diabetes But those are the standouts. Most were in it for just pain related to their advanced age. The folks didn’t have trust in the healer. But had trust in who organized the healing sessions. This is actually very common where people have skepticism with the process, but will put some sense of trust in the person organizing the healer(s) to visit an area and heal. And? This happens a lot of the time especially for those who aren’t trying to learn it. Skepticism is fine and the healers are more than happy to actually prove they can do exactly what they say. No fuss. But you are making a ton of assumptions. I mean considering with your years of experience and you’ve never heard of this that raises some eyebrows. Even native Chinese in the poorest villages have experienced this. But your name is Taoist Texts and there’s tons of texts on these processes? And you’ve never heard of it. Strange with your expertise…

Chiming in on this one as I have experienced fa qi several times since 2017 and I think some editorializing is necessary. The one thing about fa qi is whether you as an individual believe it or not does not change the intensity, process, or impact. You will feel it and it is substantial even if you don’t believe it. The healers I received fa qi from had those who did believe in it and many who did not during my very first experience in 2017. And everyone felt it. Every single day. It did feel electric and impactful to everyone who had the process completed on them. I will say on this point you’re emphatically wrong on. That isn’t to say that after a bit it can feel pleasant as the body opens up (because again this is healing and the primary goal is healing - more on below) but you still feel the electric phenomenon. Not everyone I’ve received fa qi from uses a towel but the towel does make sense. But I also think you may not understand what is really going electrically on so I’ll briefly explain this point. The healers create an electric circuit. The towel grounds the person so the qi flows into the body and out safely without major damage. The wet towel (rather damp) is a good ground to ensure the energy doesn’t kill the person. Primarily the goal is to ensure nothing bad or unwarranted happens to the person being healed. For the healer it means they won’t use as much qi to get the intended therapeutic effect (which in one lineage is to clear the jing luo promoting proper flow of qi to the person being healed). That’s really it honestly. And it doesn’t really seem like you have a ton of experience with this or even basic electrical so I thought it would be a good idea to explain this for a bit. Without the grounding there is a large risk of damage to the person being healed. Much like when there’s an electrical appliance without a ground when an electrical surge happens. It kills the appliance for the most part. This is also wrong. First time the only thing I was told is to breathe. No theory, no lectures. Just breathe. Lectures aren’t given to people who go see these healers as most of them can’t speak English and the people that are healed don’t want to know about the how (unless they want to learn how to do it too). More often than not, no amount of description really prepares you for the impact of what will happen even if there were. For the people I traveled with during that time, there was a lot of skepticism and apprehension and not necessarily what you describe. From your post, this tells me that you have no idea nor have never experienced what happens during these sessions. I don’t think (given that) you really have any subject matter expertise on the subject and you’re kind of shooting from the hip because you don’t know. Not knowing is fine. There’s a lot of things we all don’t know. Pretending to be an expert on something you know nothing about is a problem. I’ll echo in on what @Pak_Satrio already mentioned. Being an armchair philosopher doesn’t necessarily mean you understand it if you have yet to experience it. No amount of smugnorance will change that fact. That being said, there’s quite a few lineages that have this ability. Not the easiest to find but it isn’t impossible. It burns the healer’s karma too by healing people. I mean heck if folks were in Santa Cruz, they could experience it in October if they’re so inclined. So I think it works in that way if you are interested in the experience. But again the goal is to heal and tune the body. That’s really it.

Never learn from a book. I think it depends on what you're looking for. No matter what path you choose, cultivation of lower dan tian is necessary. I think given the training and going through the courses myself, Nathan Brine and Damo are missing critical elements about health and practices that won't activate a lower dan tian. But This teacher does https://authenticneigong.com

You won’t find texts that outline both nei dan (goals) or processes for students (methods). The books on either aren’t good and that’s for a reason. These are oral traditions and esoteric for a reason. As close as the translations are by Fabrizio Pregadio (few others too), there’s something missing. They really aren’t meant for westerners and I don’t think in the centuries many considered lay people or westerners would practice it. Most wouldn’t like that we are practicing - even the ones who have gone to attain a very high level. General rule of thumb is you won’t find a lineage in a book. You won’t find the full methods in a book. And you won’t find an explanation of processes in a book either.

Your entire premise is based on if it isn’t codified in a book therefore it must not exist. But in your survey you dismiss the copious amounts of books and translations on the very subject. For instance: The wuzhen pian https://www.amazon.co.uk/Foundations-Internal-Alchemy-Taoist-Practice/dp/0984308253/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=pCDVW&content-id=amzn1.sym.b23cb387-9a65-4c5f-8523-6979ddb19d2e&pf_rd_p=b23cb387-9a65-4c5f-8523-6979ddb19d2e&pf_rd_r=7GR5KN7H40MWQYXWWXVM&pd_rd_wg=dq9NQ&pd_rd_r=2f21dd76-cfac-4bb9-977a-1f4166c9977e&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_mbl The xiuzhen boubian https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cultivating-Tao-Internal-Alchemy-Masters/dp/0985547510/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=pCDVW&content-id=amzn1.sym.b23cb387-9a65-4c5f-8523-6979ddb19d2e&pf_rd_p=b23cb387-9a65-4c5f-8523-6979ddb19d2e&pf_rd_r=7GR5KN7H40MWQYXWWXVM&pd_rd_wg=dq9NQ&pd_rd_r=2f21dd76-cfac-4bb9-977a-1f4166c9977e&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_mbl The world upside down https://www.amazon.co.uk/World-Upside-Down-Internal-Alchemy/dp/0984308261/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=pCDVW&content-id=amzn1.sym.b23cb387-9a65-4c5f-8523-6979ddb19d2e&pf_rd_p=b23cb387-9a65-4c5f-8523-6979ddb19d2e&pf_rd_r=7GR5KN7H40MWQYXWWXVM&pd_rd_wg=dq9NQ&pd_rd_r=2f21dd76-cfac-4bb9-977a-1f4166c9977e&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_mbl And myriads of others if you really look at the older Chinese anthropological texts often found in caves and such. Secondly as pointed out the method is often taught orally. I have yet to see a text to describe actual methods across the different stages a person will experience in either Chinese or in English. Sufficed to say you will never find Taoist Texts to outline nei dan / nei gong processes and results like the texts for qi gong (which again are plentiful)

No tags but I'm new to the community. Call me diggorydogood and I am a humble guy that tries to...do good. I sometimes practice some Chinese language and exercises but I have a background in psychology and IT which works very well for my career. Lately I've wanted to do more in terms of learning Chinese philosophy so I was driven to make an account here.

What you're looking for potentially are Shou Dao practices. This isn't golden body as defined in Buddhism. However with any practice, it requires foundation and to wit you would need to foundation PRIOR to focusing on those practices (which there's not too many western practitioners of these practices). Understand that within the context of Daoism, there's technically several branches that do not focus on health and longevity as its main goal. Those that do focus on that goal are primarily of the Xi/Dao Gong path which are umbrella designations of Shou Dao. This differs drastically from the common health / medical qi gong in multiple ways but by and large health and medical qi gong is effective in health and healing (which is a given). But if the discussion is prolonging life then it's not effective by definition. In fact, I would argue that a proper diet, exercise, less stress, folks tend to live a lot longer than those that practice health/medical qi gong. But again this is NOT golden body.

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone! Hopefully it’ll be a fun experience