Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

What was you trying to get at then?

Just curious if it is a matter of scale or nature, when it comes to experiences.

Appreciate the refferences. But part of me would prefer to do mushroom and play dums in the artic.

I am not confident on the spesifics either. I read in a book called «tracing old norse cosmology» that this, the world tree with 7 or 9 realms, was a common (or at least known) element of siberian cosmology and there might be a connection. Ultimatley tho, if we tried to reconstruct it we would be in for a hard time. ______ On soul: yuch÷" peivrata ijwvn oujk a[n ejxeuvroio pa÷san ejpiporeuovmeno" oJdovn: ou{tw baqu;n lovgon e[cei. A preliminary translation, based on the standard text, can be: You will not find out the limits of the soul when you go, travelling on every road, so deep a logos 2 does it have. «Consequently, the implication of the fragment is not that one will not find out the limits of the soul, even if one travels every road. It is rather the paradoxical message that only the one who travels every road will not find the limits of the soul. Travelling all these roads is not an idle and necessarily mistaken attempt, going in the wrong direction, as it were, but rather the precondition of having (a soul that has) a deep logos. It is because of one’s ‘travels’, one’s comprehensive experience and understanding of the world, that one’s logos (or the logos of one’s soul) has become so deep, and this is why one will never find the limits of the soul—only such a person will be aware of the limitless- ness of the soul. And at this point the syntactic ambiguity can take effect: you can also become that person.» https://www.academia.edu/383189/The_Limits_of_the_Soul_Heraclitus_B45_Its_text_and_interpretation

Is it not a bit of a paradox to be in conflict with one self? «loosing your soul»

This reminds me very much of Asgard, Midgard and Udgard. Gard meaning «fence» or «enclosed area.» The fortress of the gods surrounded by the of men, middle earth, once again surrounded by monsters, trolls and other… forces of chaos out in the utgard, beyond the fence: the unknown and foreign.

It is very interresting. What do you think was lmplied by shaman, in her context? Another fun commonality between northren Eurasia and some native americans is the world, or shaman, tree. The fancy term being axis mundi (central pillar). One of the names of the world tree is Yggdrasil (Odins horse, or litterally: horse of the terrible one). Similarities between norse and to siberian "shaman" world trees (where the shaman travels between the 7 or 9 realms) . The world tree with an eagle at the top and a serpent gnawing at its roots, and my favorite creature, the squirrel ratatoskr running up and down transmitting insults between them.

Shamanism, in essence, is about sending ones soul out on a journey to contact spirits, is it not? You know a thing or two about shamanism? It is enchanting for sure, would be fascinating to participate in an authentic shamanic ritual. But maybe that's lost to time... A sami shaman drum from the 1700s. A culture witch, I think, we know to little about and so much of its traditions are hammered out of them. Each drum carry an unique motif, resembling the personality of the drummer, their map of the spirit realm and their personal journey trough it. Beaten rhytmatically til a state of trance is achieved. One fun, but maybe not very PC fact, is that they traditionally drank the urine of reindeer who had fly agaric (the red mushroom with white spots) for a more intense... "enchantment." Red and white, ladies and gentlemen, the colours of Christmas from the well known genius marketing move by coke less then a century ago. Depicting the story of a Christian saint from anatolia who flies around the heavens with the help of magic reindeers and delivers gifts under a sacred tree around the winter solstice. _____________ Not to be mistaken for sami music, it is faraoese, but I think the drums, lyrics, voice and... "hysterical noises" in the nicest possible meaning of the word sets the tone:

Surley humans are unique, but who is not? Anyway, I am not going to disagree with you, and I don't think you would disagree that animals like elephants are pretty complex. I do not know where awareness begins or where it ends, if it ends, but god is it an interesting question. . Dispute between man and his soul (or Ba, to be precise). Dated to between 2000-1700bc, middle kingdom. It is a very good read, but I am far to ignorant to comment on the egyptian perception of ba or soul. Does not take away from the beauty, tragic and poetic nature of the writing tho... Do you think the concept of a soul or something similar is simply innate, based on the assumption that awareness or life force or what to call it, must be eternal? What is up with the number 9? 7 I have heard is related to the planets, but nine I do not know, all though it keep on reaccuring in myth and legends. There we go, thank you. It would be foolish for me to comment on your writings as I am as knowledgeable about the subject as I am of qauntom physics, but it is very interesting. _______________________________ You briefly mentioned tombs. I think burial customs is a topic that could shed some light on this subject (on what a soul or a spirit is). From what I have heard, hunter gatherers in Britain left their dead out in nature. In much of the world we have rite of committal, ""Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust." There are way to many customs to go trough them all, but one image I find particualary beautiful is the Irish Tir Na Nog, "far over the green meadows of the waters where the horses of Lir have their pastures." Wiki: In the tale, Oisín (a human hero) and Niamh (a woman of the Otherworld) fall in love. She brings him to Tír na nÓg on a magical horse that can travel over water. After spending what seems to be three years there, Oisín becomes homesick and wants to return to Ireland. Niamh reluctantly lets him return on the magical horse, but warns him never to touch the ground. When he returns, he finds that 300 years have passed in Ireland. Oisín falls from the horse. He instantly becomes elderly, as the years catch up with him, and he quickly dies of old age.[6] "So when evening comes and I silently go aboard And my lifeboat is lowered into six feet of earth I sail west in the sea to Mary McKear in The green Tir na Noir" In some cultures the ocean or water seems to be connected with the other or underworld, am I right? A portal of sorts? In Vedbæk, Denmark, 6000 years ago, a young woman was laid to rest beside a baby, with the dead infant placed upon a swan’s wing. "Grave 8, the most famous of the burials, contains a young woman, who may have died at childbirth, and a premature baby. The symbolism of the baby on the swan wing has been much debated with suggestions including purity and the ability of a water bird to transcend water, land and air. Certainly both bodies were cared for in death (the disorderly state of the mother’s ribs suggest that she may have been resting on an organic ‘pillow’), which suggests a belief that the spirit remained with the body." https://www.dailygrail.com/2016/11/a-baby-was-buried-upon-a-swans-wing-in-denmark-6000-years-ago/

I know you are having a laugh, but in one way it is interresting: why do we describe art as «alive,» «soulfull,» «full of spirit.» etc?

To me, it feels like people (myself included) has become radically more self focused in the past few decades/centuries. Maybe in the west especially. Do you share this notion? How did it come about, and how can we return to a more outwards looking world view?

@Nungali do you think the western mind underwent a drastic shift after ww2, going from «the white mans burden» and Europe being the gift to the world, universe and God himself, to people thinking: what is this mess? What is so great about this supposed superior culture that flattens entire city to the ground with one nuke?

According to the Norwegian encyclopedia it is the simplest question in the world: "The self is a central and unique aspect of human personality, characterized by the individual's organized and enduring experiences of their own identity." But obviously, there are many views, that all seem culturally dependend. You have mentioned the daoist one. The Christian soul. The norse four aspects of the self. The jungian self. And many more that I am ignorant of.

I dont want to derail the thread, maybe ill make a seperate one. But here on daobums «the self» is often discussed. What is the self, in Your estimation? Is the daoist understanding of self as considering of two parts comparable to the jungian? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_in_Jungian_psychology

Looking forward to the «third part» of the self. Honestly the spirit soul thing is a little… confusing. And yeah, about the qouted part, it makes sense, no? That breath and air got interpeted at that witch charactarize the living, and therefore «gives birth» in a sense?

I dont know about you, but I love these nuggets of beauty. Therefore, I decided to make a thread where we can share what ressonates strongly with ourselves. Ill begin with one of the better known parables of the bible: Luke 15:11-32 New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition The Parable of the Prodigal and His Brother 11 Then Jesus[a] said, “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of the wealth that will belong to me.’ So he divided his assets between them. 13 A few days later the younger son gathered all he had and traveled to a distant region, and there he squandered his wealth in dissolute living. 14 When he had spent everything, a severe famine took place throughout that region, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that region, who sent him to his fields to feed the pigs. 16 He would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, and no one gave him anything. 17 But when he came to his senses he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired hands have bread enough and to spare, but here I am dying of hunger! 18 I will get up and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me like one of your hired hands.” ’ 20 So he set off and went to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion; he ran and put his arms around him and kissed him.21 Then the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’[c] 22 But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly, bring out a robe—the best one—and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 And get the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate, 24 for this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found!’ And they began to celebrate. 25 “Now his elder son was in the field, and as he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 He called one of the slaves and asked what was going on. 27 He replied, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fatted calf because he has got him back safe and sound.’ 28 Then he became angry and refused to go in. His father came out and began to plead with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Listen! For all these years I have been working like a slave for you, and I have never disobeyed your command, yet you have never given me even a young goat so that I might celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours came back, who has devoured your assets with prostitutes, you killed the fatted calf for him!’ 31 Then the father[d] said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and rejoice, because this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found.’ ”

It is nice to hear what its like in (what im assuming is) your cultural background. I like to compare it to others, and find both the similiarities and points of difference interrresting. Apperantly the norse didnt have a word for soul before christianity. The self was divided in four parts: Hamingja (luck) is the reason we stuff like a person IS lucky (as a personal trait), rather then something that happen to them. It is also why we say the luck has run out, allthough in the norse mind that phrase might have been literal. What ive read by Neil Price disagree with what is said about fylgja (guardian spirit). He describes it as a desceased female ancestor always watching over you. Odin was a master of magic and could shapeshift and send his «spirit» out on a journey. He wasnt always a nice guy, so in one of the poems he threatened a layman doing the same thing with leaving him in the astral realm for eternity, unable to return to his body. ———— On another note, where does the word soul come from? The web wasnt to good help here. Wonder if it might be related to sol? (The word for sun in many indo euro languages. I think the proto word for sol is seul).

To me, it is rather simple: soul is the essence of who YOU are and resides inside you. A spirit is more of a wandering entity not tied to person. A ghost or a demon are spirits, not souls. An aware, biological being contains a soul. But, that is my take. What is yours? I am not sure how helpfull this is, but it is fun. Still, ill put it in a spoiler in case some find it tideous:

But it is kind of the same thing, as the eternal return is living the exact same Life over and over again. So would you be comfortable with the way you living, If you knew you had to experience the exavt same way for eternity

Well, it is basically the same thing going on as in Your short story

@Nungali haha fun read, self made? You might not understand thw language, but I think youll see the parallell edit: english subtitles avalaible Nevermind, those made no sense

Friedrich Nietzsche's concept of eternal recurrence expressed in "The Gay Science" (§341): "What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence—even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!'" If this doesnt inspire you to live fully, I do not kmow what will.

And nobody but yourself has that authority

In the beginning was Logos, and Logos was with God, and Logos was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

(Jews are not known for liking Jesus or gentiles, historically speaking). But hopefully someone can give you a better explanation.