Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

Again are we talking about "Satan" specifically, or just any perceived "evil spirit" in general? 

Isnt that pretty much the same?

11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

curiosity can kill a cat,  

And the cat can kill a mouse

Just now, old3bob said:

 

very carefully,  and the saying that,  "it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness" has its place.  I'm no expert and know it.

But that is kind of the issue.. for me at least, saying «dont go there, there are ghosts there,» does not cut it. I am even open to the possibility of spirits, but.. 

6 minutes ago, old3bob said:

academic discussion about evil and some of its forms is just that academic...but if one has first hand experience with evil beings in the astral or with astral evil making influential or harmful forays into the physical world of humanity then we are in down to the brass tacks!  Btw. I'd say evil and or hell are not eternal and which is depicted in the Tibetan Buddhist Wheel of  life.

 

Maybe, but how do you suggest we discuss it based on someones experience on the astral plane?

Just now, Maddie said:

 

The original question is "who or what is Satan". My question would be "who's Satan are we talking about"? Different traditions have different versions of Satan. 

I feel pretty confident we are talking about it in a Christian or jewish context. He is barley mentioned in the bible. His names means advisary. Mentioned tree times in OT. In NT he seems to become a force of his own, «the god of this world.»

6 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I noticed that even though the topic is about Satan, there is a lot of talk about witches. I thought I would point out that witchcraft and satanism are not the same thing. 

Haha youre right. My thoughts related to the tendacy to demonize. Beelzepub means lord of shit and was probally the god of the philistines. Greek daimon and english demon has very different conotations. Point is that things that were common, even good, has been changed or morphed into something satanic. And what is satan If not evil personofied?

29 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Female healers and virgins and seers seems to have been a custom troughout pagan Europe.

Just a little curiousity. St. Lucia is celebrated at 13th desember in Italy, and in… scandinavia, seemingly lacking elsewhere in Europe. Lucia comes from latin lux, meaning light. In the Julian calender, the 13th desember was belived to be the darkest night of the year. Legends of women going around checking If people have preparer for christmas, and either showering them with gifts or punishing them If they fail to do so, are found all across Europe (frau holda, lussi, baba yaga). Notice the similarity between Lussi and Lucia btw. She takes one of two forms: either demonic, ugly, devil like, child eating witch, or a friendly women dressed in white carrying a light.

Apperantly both hex and witch (and wicca) stems from PIE *weik, meaning to change or bend. Not until christianity came along did it become something demonic, it seems. At least not to the same degree. Female healers and virgins and seers seems to have been a custom troughout pagan Europe.
 

2 numbers 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

But it is curious how this:

became this:

19 minutes ago, Maddie said:

It's believed that "Satan" the adversary came about when the Jews were in exile in Persia and came into contact with Zoroastrianism with the dual good and evils gods. 

Mhm Ive heard similar claims. There is also the reccuring pattern of demonizing the out groups deity. But im curious. God is often discussed, satan not so much. Maybe my cultural background gives me a perception of satan that does not correspond to the jewish perspective. Maybe the binary good/bad is more nuanced. What on earth is going on in Job for instance?

I think if I had to define a «devil» figure, it would represent chaos, the unnatural. Entropy.

4 hours ago, Daniel said:

@NaturaNaturans,

 

Do you want to discuss this?

Sure. The problem is that I dont find any objectivity in good and evil, I find it arbitrary. Does not mean that I dont operate with the concepts, but thats all there is, imo. From the perspective of a… tuna, rape isnt wrong, right. But go ahead and tell me what you think. Who is satan? And why is satan? 

Why is there so strikingly many trans people in Thailand compared to the rest of the world?

this is Varg Vigernes. He is a satanist and a murderer. He burned down one of Norways iconic stav-churchers. This one:

its a replica of one made in 1170, build in pagan temple style, so kind of ironic.

(Sorry, couldnt resist)

16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

@NaturaNaturans,

 

Friend,  who or what is satan?  Do you know?  Have you ever conversed with any satanists?

Oh there are loads of them. Well, not really, but literally every village has that one dude who looks like a serial killer, hates everything Christian and worships the old gods. Not that the old gods are any more satanic then OT god tho

24 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

No.  Why do you think so?

 

  Hide contents

 

satan is a concept possessed by God, defined in large part by God's disdain for it

 

think of it like cilantro?  cilantro is defined as "soap" to my wife.  "Yucky"

 

satan is God's cilantro.  You heard it here first, bro   It's defined as something which is being cursed by God.  God doesn't like it, Yuck.  That's the concept commonly known as satan ( basically )

 

 

Why does god, as you labled all powerfull and benevolent, dislike parts of his own creation?

53 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

You're asking how?  ~I'm confused by the question~

 

What do you mean?  I apologize, it's very simple and obvious to me, but that's because this is "native soil", for lack of a better words.

 

I'm guessing, as dangerous as that is, that you are not considering the Jewish God concept?

 

 

 

That ^^ is the Jewish God.

 

So, if I take that definition and do some word substitution regarding your question, this is what I get:

 

"Jews believe in good and evil, satan and the bottom less pit stemming from absolutely literal infinity, a unity without division."

 

To me, this is perfectly simple and easy to understand.

 

Everything, anything, any human mind can conceive and more is included in "absolutely literal infinity".

 

Anything... you can think of ... and more....

 

Good?  yes

Evil? yes

satan? yes

bottomless pit?  yes

an overflowing pit?  yes

blue jeans?  yes

neck tie? yes

duck? yes

lint? yes

cars? yes

trucks? yes

busses? yes

a canoe? yes

a raft? yes

a cup? yes

a plate? yes

 

etc...

 

 

 

Yes, but isnt it a contradiction that the devil )or satan If you wish) is an aspect of god?

But @Daniel, doesnt jews belive in good and evil, satan and the bottom less pit? How is this compatable with with everything stemming from God?

Agnostisism, atheism, monotheism, pantheism, polytheism, animister etc. What do you consider most likley/reasonable, and why?

I lean towards monism/pantheism, all is one and there we are all individuated aspects of the divine.

I like the hindu creation myth:

In the beginning, there was only the eternal, infinite, and all-encompassing Brahman. From this infinite expanse, Brahma, the creator, emerged. Alone and immersed in his solitude, Brahma desired to create the universe.

To fulfill his desire and dispel his loneliness, Brahma split himself into two, creating the first male and female beings. From his right side, he created the male, and from his left side, the female. The male became Manu, the progenitor of mankind, and the female became Shatarupa, the mother of all living beings.

Together, Manu and Shatarupa began the process of creation, giving birth to the first humans and all living creatures. Thus, the universe emerged from the union of the divine pair, formed from the very essence of Brahma himself.

Just now, Apech said:

There is the option to kill you first then tell you.  
 

 

I mean, If you are going to kill me, at least give me the honor of telling me Your secrets first 🧙‍♂️

12 minutes ago, Brad M said:

how can one pick an all time favorite.

Hmmm… everyone is free to write what they like, but initially I was thinking about books or texts that means a lot to you, personally

Fascinating, plain and simple. So the aboriginals has to a large degree managed to old on to their way of Life and tradition? I was under the perception that only a very few and very remote people managed that. But good on them!

8 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Journey to the East is my fav Hesse.

By Hesse ive read Siddharta and steppenwolf. Both very good, so might give journey tte a try.

On another note, you guys familiar with Murakami. I like him quite a bit, how about you?

20 hours ago, Nungali said:

kadaicha

So, according to Google these are the wise men of aboriginal cultures. Would you like to talk a little about them?