Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

17 hours ago, Apotheose said:

An interesting quote:

 

Matthew 18:3 - “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven”

I am afraid to of boring people to death here, as i have posted this chapter (only two pages long) about five times allready, but it reasonates deeply with me. Since i havent bothered you with it yet, and it choose «the child» as the final stage of development, maybe youll find it interresting. Hope so, at least:)

https://www.anthologialitt.com/amp/the-three-metamorphoses-by-friedrich-nietzsche

36 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Hi, Both Jesus and Mohammad are prophets but why their teachings are different ? According to Bible and Quran how a person becomes a prophet? 

Think you missunderstood, and that the question was more alike: how can two prophets have so different teachings.

In christianity, Christ is not reffered to as a prophet, but something much more: God incarnated.

Some aspects of biblical Christ are was taboo in the semitic world: the trinity, God having a human form, depictions of God and the idea that God could die.

It is by some belived that Muhammed and his people began as a «heathen,» Christian tribe, but wanted reform for some of the reasons mentioned above.

As to why their teachings differ so much? Well, I am no Expert at islam at all (nor at christianity, but naturally i have some idea of it), but a few plausible readers:

- the cultures that influenced biblical Jesus differed wildley from 7th century arabia

- Jesus was somewhat of a pascifist (i think its fair to say), while Mohammed was a war lord.

I shouldnt speak on his behalf, but i feel confident that he didnt intend to imply that hindus are inheirinetly violent

1 minute ago, SirPalomides said:

There is a reason why many of the Church fathers- not new agers by any stretch- were universalists.

Im intruiged, would you mind elaborating?

Quote

As for Revelations, let's be clear, nobody knows WTF is going on in that book. 

 

Haha fair enough… maybe we wil have to go to «the sacred mushroom and the cross» to figure that Out😆 

Could i have one please?

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

A jew is a soul which was present at sinai and has entered the eternal convenant:  "Na'asheh v'nishmah" "I will do and I will listen" - Exodus 24:7.

 

Our beliefs were summarized by Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon, the "Rambam" in 13 principles which was set to song.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yigdal

 

 

Thank you for the video.

how do you feel about academica at lagre disputing the exodus, as there has been found zero evidence of it?

14 hours ago, Nungali said:

There seems two currents that the IE carried ; one was a type of opposite ; a warlord , patriarchal , raid and run culture . The other, which may have arrived later , a more egalitarian  approach with animal and environmental considerations .  This possibly relates to early Holocene post dispersion (and relating to later horse domestication ) .

Very interresting, do you have a sense of who those cultures might have been?

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Oh yes .... being a Hindu land certainly brings peace  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/18/hatred-bigotry-and-untruth-communal-violence-grips-india

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/08/horrific-stories-thousands-flee-ethnic-violence-north-east-india-manipur

 

^  tip of the iceberg

Could you imagine… giving palestine (the holy land) to india… i think we might have solved peace in the mid east.

but unironically… all of us has probally done more for world peace then many of the ones who have won it, just by not starting a war. Allthough replacing the palestinians with hindus would cause a third world war

8 minutes ago, Nungali said:

There is a big difference - spiritually -  between a 'shamanic  thank you to the Gods and the animal spirits  for a good hunt / herd'  and a 'black magic' rite of killing an animal , and using its life force , or offering that life force to a wrathful Jehovah like deity to get what you want ... usually success in war and violence . 

 

gen:

26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, a and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

(…)
 

But for Adam f no suitable helper was found. 21So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs g and then closed up the place with flesh. 22Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib hhe had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

(…)

The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.”

Then the LORD God asked the woman, "What have you done?" "The snake deceived me, and I ate," the woman answered.

So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

Deut:

Clean and Unclean Food

14 You are the children of the Lord your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, 2 for you are a people holyto the Lord your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the Lord has chosen you to be his treasured possession.

3 Do not eat any detestable thing. 4 These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, 5 the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep.[d] 6 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.7 However, of those that chew the cud or that have a divided hoof you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the hyrax. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a divided hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. 8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.

The Firstborn Animals

19 Set apart for the Lord your God every firstborn male of your herds and flocks. Do not put the firstborn of your cows to work, and do not shear the firstborn of your sheep. 20 Each year you and your family are to eat them in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose. 21 If an animal has a defect, is lame or blind, or has any serious flaw, you must not sacrifice it to the Lord your God. 22 You are to eat it in your own towns. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat it, as if it were gazelle or deer. 23 But you must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground like water.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 

These probally didnt help the cause so much either. Sooo, some comments: my understanding is that whenever it says LORD it refers to Yahwe and not el, and for the last verse…. He really did mean anything that breathes. Children, rabbits, camels you name it

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Lets face it , to many modern people the OT is a primitive horror story .  That was noticed in the past as well  and caused some rather radical developments , as exampled above . Some  groups even thought the OT was so bad  Jehovah must be Satan .  ... so that means .... maybe one should do the opposite of what it says ;  Do NOT worship Jehovah , do see the Egyptians as heroes and the good guys , DO practice sodomy  and enjoy some Gomorrah , etc . 

But honestly, If you think about god in a platonic way and not a tribal god, it makes perfect sense, does it not? Like, Yahwe is clearly as tribal as Pan, Baal and Malluck, or whoever the leventine cananite (! Sorry @Daniel, forgot that they are two very distinct cultures), sacrificed their babies to? While NT God seems pretty platonic:

Quote

To Plato, God is transcendent-the highest and most perfect being-and one who uses eternal forms, or archetypes, to fashion a universe that is eternal and uncreated. The order and purpose he gives the universe is limited by the imperfections inherent in material.

https://iep.utm.edu/god-west/#SH2b
 

And this again would make Yahwe… the demiurge 😱

Ty oak, ill check it Out:)

1 hour ago, oak said:

The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.

I asked ChatGPT about this book, and it sounds promising.  Yoga means unity, no? In the answer i got from god/ai, it seems like thiw book is mostly theoratical. Is that the case, and any thoughts on yoga (as the excersize we westerners now it as), mantras, meditations etc?

21 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

But did they originate in Christian  lands ?   And why do people think  they did ?

 

'Popular'  History seems to have swept the originators under the carpet .

 

Human rights /  more  egalitarian forms of government  ..... better sexual equality ..... animal  rights encoded in legislation ..... protection of the environment (again within legislation ) .... and perhaps even the whole ethical foundation o/f western civilization

 

? 

 

Generally :

https://infinitediscoveries.org/zoroastrianism-an-ancient-persian-faith-and-the-foundations-of-western-civilization/

 

Sexual equality :

" Women in ancient Persia had more rights and greater freedom than any other ancient civilization including, according to some scholars, even ancient Egypt which is famous for its respect for the feminine principle in religion as well as daily life "

 

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1493/twelve-great-women-of-ancient-persia/

 

Animals :

"Religion is often criticized for failing to uphold animal concerns, yet Zoroastrianism, an ancient religion that underlies the Abrahamic traditions as well as Eastern religions, offers some strikingly contemporary concerns regarding the kinship of human and nonhuman animals. Human and nonhuman animals alike have souls, free will, and life after death. In the middle of the second millennium BCE, Zoroaster called attention to the treatment of animals as necessary to the divine order and righteousness that has been disturbed by evil and sin. How humans treat animals also affects their own well-being in this world and the next."

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358395192_Zoroaster_and_the_Animals

 

Environment ;

General  - contemporary ;

 

https://parsi-times.com/2021/11/our-environment-a-zoroastrian-perspective/

It is interresting, but, i wonder If not maybe indo-euro culture in general would be a more logical explanation then zoroastrianism alone? Seems a little far fetched to have traveled that far in that route over such a long time.

that makes me wonder that the traits you mentioned might come from before the indo-aryan and indo euro split. Like, greece, the germanic nations etc. share a loooong history of democratic institutions.

tacitus mentioned as well that the germanic people had such respect for women, so much that it almost was embarrasing. And in the way they thread their women, they were alone among all of the barbarians (basically non-romans), who they even surpassed in this area. Likevise, women in norse society seems to have enjoyed an enourmus amount of eqauility and rights (all though we shouldnt confuse this with modern concepts of femininism).  
 

When it comes to animal conditions… well, the hindus are probally by far the most advanced in this regard, so kudos to them, but i do not belive that european farmers threated their animals like trash either… and animal rights is still something people care a lot about here in Europe. The occasionsl animal sacrifice undouptly took place at times, and can be thraced back to the PIE creation myth im sure you are familiar with. But my sense is, that this was more like the yearly slaughter of a goat at julblot (yule offering) then something they did on a regular basis. By mythologies, the norse cosmos is by far the one im most familiar with, and that seems quite animalistic in my eyes.

From ChatGPT:

Marcion of Sinope, a key figure in early Christianity, held unique beliefs about the Demiurge, distinct from traditional Christian doctrine. In Marcion's theology, the Demiurge was seen as the god of the Old Testament, a creator god who was distinct and inferior to the Supreme God of the New Testament. Marcion believed that the Demiurge was a lesser deity who had created the material world and was responsible for the Law of Moses, but was ignorant of the Supreme God, who was represented in the teachings of Jesus. This led Marcion to reject the Old Testament entirely and to focus exclusively on the teachings of Jesus and Paul, which he saw as revealing the true, benevolent God. His views were declared heretical by mainstream Christianity, but they had a significant impact on the development of early Christian thought and the formation of the New Testament canon.

7 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

did you not say several times in this string that you were not getting paid?  thus that's a symbol of payment and meant in good humor...

Well, idk. 
 

BUT, i think he gets paid, and he pays me. Recipriocity, growth, broadened perspective, banter… Whats not to like;) 

Me and @Nungali has been PMing for a while, and i am very gratefull for that. Really.

He did made me join his cult with help of black magic, where we harras people for their faith and for their faith only of course, (because we are biased and accademics can be wrong (but fictonal Moses cannot)).

I have read the bagavad gita as well someeee of the vedic texts. Isha upanishad in particular was the most enlightenting text i have every read (highly reccomend, only 18 verses).

So, since my experience so far has les to a lot of growth, i feel, what would my fellow bums advice for an even greater understanding?

So, the bible consits of OT (jewish torah), NT about Jesus (gospels, letters and more).

Giving the impression that the torah is sacred to christians as well, as i dont think many christians belive. Garden of Eden and the old laws might be neccesary for context, but… other then that, is the OT really important for Christians? Ive never met one who started qouted some Isiah passage in order to make a argument on christianity…
 

My very uneducated opinion is that our beloved palestinian fellow for whom we feast every solstice, had huge problems with judaism and the synagoge. Further more, his teachings contradicts judaism enterily.

A Christian is defined as «follower of christ,» and thats it. So, as i see it, If you recognize Christ as peak human/divinity, the holy trinity and try to live more like him, you are (imo) a Christian ✝️

A jew is… i am not really sure, but primarily an etnic group, who belived they were chosen by the tribal God Yahwe to conquer the holy land all the while talking about the horrible infidels (witch is 8 billion - 20mill ≈ 8 billion). It is also extremly «law-based» and.. yeah.

So, why is the torah/OT in the bible?

4 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Maybe you could explain this , and why and where you are coming from .  I dont get it . 

 

But anyway ...

 

Did you know that the  WOMAN  who first invented 'monopoly'  ( although under a different name - they stole it, of course  and changed it )  supplied a variant set of rules so a totally different game could be played  ?  - no  private ownership of property , all rent went into a collective fund  to pay for services  and other egalitarian rules where in place . Not sure how one played it though .

She was a socialist as well, witch is just beautyfull. I think part of the point was to show how rigged it could be, and she did pretty well.

11 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

That's why I specified who's definition lol. The term "enlightenment" is rather ambiguous. But still there is no proof this happened.  

It didnt happen

11 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Actually rising from the dead is antithetical to enlightenment, at least according to the Buddhist definition. The Buddha said after an enlightened being dies there is no re-birth, no coming back. 

 

Also there is absolutely no proof that Jesus actually resurrected. 

Yes but this is not the buddhist definition. In the western world, rebirth is awakening (or enlightenment), and immortality is divinity. 

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

alleged resurrection lol

Rising from the death = enlightentment = immortality = rebirth = change = divinity. 
 

symbolism.

Just now, Maddie said:

 

The whole human sacrifice for other peoples sins thing makes no sense from a justice point of view, which is what it appeals to. 

By that i meant: living in one of the most hellish places on earth at the time, speaking against the authorities and preaching love and forgiveness, something he knew would Get him killed. Willing to die for his belief instead of sacrifice then, is that makes it clearer.

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Yeah that makes no sense at all. 

What doesnt make sense

For me in terms of «saintity» he is the idealized human, peak goodness. I am very intrueged by other teachings aswell: eastern ones, Paganism, philosophy, but mot knowledgeable enough. And there are a lot of great teachers, in every field.

allthough as a european, i am undoubtley biased towards him, even tho i wouldnt call my self a Christian i the traditional way.

4 minutes ago, Maddie said:

There have been some interesting points on both side, but to me personally for someone to be the greatest teacher of all time they need to have a little more than just "don't be a dick" to offer. 

How about, sacrifice yourself for the sins of the people, breaking the old law and teaching that attempting love and forgiveness towards everyone as the only neccesary key to paradise?