Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Because it is specifically not monism.  

 

How is it not?

6 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I have a long paper on it , but not just before Christianity , on  the basic aspects of the concept as a principle in  nature  , physics (including sub atomic physics ) , cosmology , philosophy  and religions  .... if you want to read it .

 

Please share

21 hours ago, Nungali said:

Any 'natural principles of reality'  would relate to nature , various forms of physics ,  the four fundamental powers , things like that . I dont see that those things need a God  and i think any atheist / materialist  would not have trouble accepting these natural forces of order and balance  .

I find this intruging, care to expand? And also, you mentioned that satan is often seen as a twin in many traditions. What is the symbolism of this?

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Again, i agree. However there is a whole lot of concepts people call 'natural law and order' that are not really , they are actually based on human needs and comfort and the way we philosophically prefer to live *   (but not in reality , eg. when we see the world situation throughout history and the present  ) , usually extremely modified by our own culture .

Again i agree. Thats why i loved that hymn to Zeus. But what «natural law» is, is not that simple in my opinion. Do you have anysuggestion? Reading a little bit in Auraliues «meditation,» and he use worlds like all-nature, prime mover, universal logos and so on. Only read a little, but it is fascinating.

bought this, sounds promising:
 

«The return of Odin,» Richard Rudgley

Summary:

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Summary

A controversial examination of the influence and presence of the Norse god Odin in contemporary history and culture. It:

 

• Documents Odin’s role in the rise of Nazi Germany, the 1960s counterculture revolution, nationalist and ecological political movements, and the occult revival 
• Examines the spiritual influence of Odin in relation to Jesus Christ 
• Profiles key individuals instrumental in the rise of the modern pagan renaissance 

Exploring the influence of the Norse god Odin in the modern world, Richard Rudgley reveals Odin’s central role in the pagan revival and how this has fueled a wide range of cultural movements and phenomena, including Nazi Germany, the 1960s counterculture revolution, the Lord of the Rings, the ecology movement, and the occult underground. 

Rudgley argues that it is Odin and not Jesus Christ who is the single most important spiritual influence in modern Western civilization. He analyzes the Odin archetype - first revealed by Carl Jung’s famous essay on Wotan - in the context of pagan religious history and explains the ancient idea of the Web - a cosmic field of energies that encompasses time, space, and the hidden potentials of humanity - the pagan equivalent to the Tao of Eastern tradition. The author examines the importance of the concept of wyrd, which corresponds to “fate” or “destiny”, exploring techniques to read destiny such as the runes as well as the existence of yoga in prehistoric and pagan Europe, which later produced the Norse Utiseta, an ancient system of meditation. 

Rudgley documents how the Odin archetype came into play in Nazi Germany with the rise of Hitler and the pagan counterculture of the 1960s. He examines how the concept of subterranean and mythic realms, such as the Hollow Earth, Thule, and Agartha, and mysterious energies like Vril were manifested in both occult and profane ways and investigates key occult figures like Madame Blavatsky, Guido von List, and Karl Wiligut. He provides pagan analyses of Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings and documents the impact the Odin archetype has had on nationalist and fascist groups in America and Europe. 

Examining pagan groups in Europe and America that use the Norse template, Rudgley reveals true paganism as holistic and intimately connected with the forces at work in the life of the planet. Showing how this “green” paganism can be beneficial for dealing with the adverse consequences of globalization and the ongoing ecological crisis, he explains how, when repressed, the Odin archetype is responsible for regressive tendencies and even mass-psychosis - a reflection of the unprecedented chaos of Ragnarok - but if embraced, the Odin archetype makes it possible for like-minded traditions to work together in the service of life.

12 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I love that channel and nerd-ing out about the whole Indo-European commonalities topic.

Check out creganford on YouTube, he is a true blessing. If you become a Patreon for like 2 pounds, something like that, you Get a lot benefists alwell. Highly reccomended.

11 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I love that channel and nerd-ing out about the whole Indo-European commonalities topic.

My fav subject in religious and mythologies as well. I just read that @Nungali have studied compative religion. Do you have any book reccomentions?

On 22.10.2023 at 11:34 PM, Nungali said:

There is a whole lot of 'across the board' similarities  in the Indo-European traditions .

 

But ... where did they  come from ?

Why not the pontic step? I know some aspects survived into the americas, but not at the scale it did in Eurasia, did it?

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

Thought you might find this interesting.

 

 

Your intuistion is spot on;) I am so interrested that i have watched long, long ago, but ty!

Good evening good folks. Id assume you have considered it, so what made you decide to not go ahead with it?

So, in what cultures where they common before christianity, did they represent the same, how far can it be thraced back etc.

A little more controversial document/book is one past trough generations of frisians, before they delivered it to a library. 
The nazis were absolutley fascinered by it, so that is probally why it is so unlnown, tabboo today.

it is called the orea Linda manuscript, and makes many refferences to their surprime, monotestic and trancendet deity called Ralda.

Well, i think i understand non-dualistisk, but ill have to agree with @Daniel, it is a weird way to put. Why not unitarian, monistic, «the one» or something like that?

I Wonder If monotheism was acctually the default for Paganism. Reasons: Odin being named allfather, sol invictus cult, Cleanthes Hymn to Zeus  (worth a read in my opinion) and so on. Zarathustra definetly deserves a mention. Then we have have plationism and his concept for the demiurge. Many often argue that monotheism is an jewish «invention,» I however, suspect that the jews got it from Zarathustra and greek tradition, and not the other way around. And then we have hinduism and buddhism with their «over soul» and none duality. We know that all these tradition predates Judaism, and that judaism as we know it only happened after hundrets og years of greek and persian  occupation.

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Absolute freedom permits things I think you would find abhorent.  If there is a divinity ( angel, demon, whatever moniker you choose to apply to it ) which is advocating absolute freedom then it is dangerous if, big IF, it is permitted without any restrictions.

 

Knowledge is dangerous in a similar manner if it is not moderated by the understanding that knowledge is always and forever incomplete.  ( you don't know what you don't know ).  Incomplete knowledge, which is ignorant or in denial of its own ignorance is what perpetuates needless conflict.

 

Everything that exists which passes through human thought, word, and deed is capable of causing great harm if it is not moderated including moderation itself.

 

Most of these "forces" that you are being warned about resist moderation, or gradually lead away from moderation.

 

Hmm… leads me to question what is a «correct» amount of freedom, censorship and moderation, and how do we tell. My alarmbells goes off when somebody start talking on behalf of God.

17 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Hmm.. i prefare ab explonation to a warning i think 

5 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

learn the hard way if you must but I did warn you...

What makes you say that?

______
 

On another note, i came by this hymn to Zeus, attributted to Cleanthes (331-231 bc). I think it is worth a read:

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

... or , evil done by your won people ... far away from your place  , doesnt bother  US  as much .

 

Its a bit like having a large American style car , or one of those long bonnet Bugatti's , you run into a pedestrian .... they are way out there somewhere at the end of the bumper , you are feeling not that responsible ... but in a small modern car , with a short bonnet  and a view from the window seems like you are looking straight down onto the road , you  run into a pedestrian, they are pressed right up against yer windscreen , 'in your face ' , so to speak , you feel  a bit more responsible .

 

  Hide contents

I should probably apologize for my bad sense of humor .

 

Motor vehicle accident jokes are not  very popular . I found that out the other day , I was  making a few jokes about them and people complained :  " Its not funny, property is damaged , people can be injured or even killed ... at least wait until the ambulance leaves . "

 

 

Anyway , thats my 'raid and run ' theory on the development of 'evil' in the world  ... those that could do shit 'far away' to 'others' and then escape the consequences  ( either via horseback or ship ) felt free to 'commit evil' on others .  Whereas in Australia , pre colonial, we have no such concepts  *  people where all connected , no fast escape from breaking the law , you probably had  relatives, potential wives, hunting and travel rights in others territories .

 

* Eg , they had wars ( two lines of warriors  facing each other , one on one )  ... but no atrocities or massacres ,  killing women and children , destroying crops and animals , 'salting the earth',  genocides, etc .  where unthinkable concepts to them  ( as was sacrificial culture, pain as punishment  ( they where horrified when seeing the first British 'flogging' punishments ) ,  animal domestication  or slavery ( which I think are related to each other , one leads to the other  ) .

Are you familiar with Dunbars number? I really think the increased size and complexity of civilisation has opened the door for unspeakable evil, madness and detatchment, alienation and demonisation.

On 5.11.2023 at 7:58 AM, Stilltrying said:

I have done a fair amount of researching different religions and spiritual systems, and I've arrived at somewhat of a dead end.

 

I'm sort of at a loss of how to proceed further.

 

Who or what do you think is the god of this world?

 

What has your experience been?

To me, there is no system or religion or tradition that has monopoly on the truth. God, to me, is the creator, present in everything. I do not think he is to concered with Haram, homosexuality or the sabbath.

I really like the Sol Invictus idea. 
 

16. O Sun, sole traveller of the Heavens, controller of all, Surya, son of Prajapatiremove thy rays and gather up thy burning light. I behold thy glorious form; 1 am he, the Purusha within thee.

(Isha upanishad)

it is not that i belive god is the sun, but the imagery speaks to me. 

I am happy scandinavia is one of the only, If not the only region that still call it jul (think it is derived from hjul, meaning wheel) and thereby perserving the winter solstice and nature worship aspect of christmas ❤️‍🔥

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I agree !  IE that opinion is VERY pop with me .

 

And furthermore

 

Aussies !  Stop Christmas decorating  with northern hemisphere winter stuff  down here in southern  summer Christmas swealtering !

 

Forget the spray on snow , the   northern pine tree , the Arctic Santa snow suit , hat and long beard, the reindeer , sleds etc .

 

And while I am bitchin'   ... stop celebrating Halloween on our Beltane  ! 

 

 

Buuuut… what is left of christmas with out the family feasting, gift giving, the winter vibes, alcohol and the great pagan three and the shaman flying on a reindeer driven sled?

34 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Good and Evil are local cultural values and beneath or apart from God's concerns .

Id think this is answer tbh. There can be no doubt that morality differs enourmosly from culture to culture. Seems the «preachers» of morality and self proclaimed spokesmen of «the one,» use it more to control, enrich themselves and demonize the «godless» and immoral tribe who happens to be their rivals. Evil done by a people far away from you doesnt seem to bother the them as much

18 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

there are definitely some evil and malicious beings in the lower astral and you don't want to mess with them!  Do they have a dark lord or something similar, yes; as for related names - don't mess with them.  Btw the hells and any beings there are not eternally there except in some interpretation's of Abrahamic religions, since for such to go on eternally they would have to have their own separate root which does not exist.  

You are right, i do not want to mess with it. But tbh i am not convinced of their literal existence, and also the term demon/devil/satan is a very loaded term, as you touch on. Lucifer means light bringer, does it not? Hell and Hades, the Eulers of the norse and greek underworld forexample, does not seem to have been viewed as evil (as far as i know). Same goes for Osiris.
I do not see anything inherintley evil about knowledge, truth, freedom etc. as the older gods and myths seems to represent, allthough i would not like to rebel against «the most high.» It is a fine line, it seems.

Edit, continuing: If we accept the concept of a creator, or God, then it follows that «evil» forces are a creation of him as well, does it not?

15 hours ago, Cobie said:

Is individuation the opposite of non-dual?

 

Individuation - selfhood. 

 

Non-dual - no-self. 

 

Hm, i am not going to pretend i understand Anatta, because I do not. But non-dual (monist? Wholeness?) seems to to be what individuation is about, and not it opposite (but again, I have no understanding of the term Anatta.)

Jung identified four elements of the psyche: ego (the conscious, who we think we are), the shadow (the unconscious parts we suppress), the persona (the social mask) and the self (all of the three combined). So, as I understand it, individuation is as you rightly say, coming to selfhood, and this is done (again, my understanding) by integrating all the elements in a healthy way and become whole. I don't think it is about "destroying" the persona or acting out every aspect of the shadow no matter what, but accepting and integrating them. 

At the moment I am reading "Thus spoke Zarathustra", and there is an interesting chapter called "The three metamorphoses." I think  its a great piece of work, and only a page or two long, so ill include it in full in the spoiler below. Anyway, the first step is that of a camel: wandering dutifully in the desert with a heavy load, like a hard-working and conscientious servant (morals, traditions, rules etc. imposed on it by society). In the second stage, the camel transforms into a lion. The lion rejects the traditional limitations and values forced on it by the others, rebels against them, and destroys them. The third metamorphosis is from lion to child. I found this a little peculiar at first, having a child as the final stage, so to speak. But considering their innocence, joy and creativity, and their potential to grow and shape themselves and their surroundings, I think it makes perfect sense.

Maybe it seems a little random, but I do believe that the camel, lion and the child can be seen as the persona, the destruction of it and finally, the integration, authenticity, and individuation of the child. 

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“Who among the philosophers before me was in any way a psychologist? Before me there simply was no psychology” (Ecce Homo, Nietzche)

Thus spoke Zarathustra:

1. The Three Metamorphoses

Continuing on a subject I am even more clueless about, the occult and mysticism as many here seem to be into. These sort of themes, like looking inward, wandering in the desert (the abyss?), and becoming who you are/a better, more authentic version etc. are aspects you lot deal with, is it not?

Interesting video and article for those who are curious (easy read):

https://academyofideas.com/2017/02/nietzsche-psychology-become-who-you-are/

Edit: would you mind educating me on anatta/non-dual? My understanding of it, after a quick google search, made it seem like it is more about the destruction of the ego, and not the self?

Edit 2: i really like the qoute from Jung in the first post, where he writer in-dividual. Never occured to me that the term individual meant individisble.

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

 

ARIES. Who are ye, brethren?

 

SATAN-TYPHON. I am the twin brother of the sun.

..

LEO. Brother, if thou be indeed our brother, what wilt thou say?

 

SATAN-TYPHON. O Sun, my brother, is it thy will that I have speech with thee? For I have lain with thee nine moons in the womb of our mother; for we have loved as none have loved; for I am closer knit with thee than light and darkness, or that life and death! "

 

- The Rite of Sol .

I am not following brother