On 25.10.2023 at 11:24 PM, silent thunder said:

Many pages of great shares in this thread... check it out.

I've picked up many new artists over the last few years from it.

 

 

 

 

@Nungali

If i have my feet on the ground? Kind of, kind of not. I am a lot more open, but struggeling making sense of reality with out my old framework. And if i try to comprehend it all, it becomes overwhelming.

 

Feet on the ground, eyes to the skies, warm heart, cold mind

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

You can count ME out of that 'us'  .

 

 

Ummmmmm    ...... 

 

you see, that is actually the crux of our problems  .... some of us are very STUPID !  that is , the opposite of intelligent .

 

An intelligent person .... finds solutions to their problems that benefit themselves  and everyone else .

 

A stupid person ..... tries to solve their problems with solutions that benefit neither themselves  nor anyone else  , and in fact , often cause harm and damage , without solving the original problem at all .

 

.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2387343-ai-recreates-clip-of-pink-floyd-song-from-recordings-of-brain-activity/
It is comming. Privacy is gone. Hope everyone else is eqaully crazy.

 

————

Back to topic, the meaning of life. Somehow it manages to be the most stupid, important and impossible question at the same time. But even If there is no meaning, no right or wrong, i guess i should listen to my inner voice, try to be present and grow in to my potential.

1 hour ago, Dedicated said:

Man's search for meaning comes to mind by Frankl. He had his main points like, there are decent people, romantic love, freedom to choose ones attitude.

I'm a philosophy graduate. To make sense of what I studied I settled on the importance of morality.

There are two types of good, life affirming and pure.

Would you mind elaborating?

11 minutes ago, Cobie said:

(my highlighting)

Huh  … artificial means man-made https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial

 

Apologies, you are right. What intented to wrote was natural. Ill edit it in now.... no that doesn't work. What I am trying to get across: I do not see an obvious difference between any form of organic intelligence, and the man made (AI) seems intelligent enough to fool us already. If we are going to to question if it is intelligent, we might as well start questioning each other. Cogito ergo sum. 

On 19.10.2023 at 6:08 AM, Nungali said:

This stuff :

 

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/contents-book

 

I have read a few of those and like it. But there are a lot of texts, anyone In particular you like/would recommend?

 

4 hours ago, Partez said:

I think it's almost impossible to figure it out.  For all we know, we are actually an advanced form of AI, that's created the current "reality" as a means to stop itself from going insane and committing suicide.

 

We are all on the road to the final realization what we actually are, and once the collective truth becomes too much to bare, the "universe" will be destroyed and the cycle will start all over again.

 

On a side note, I've recently got medicinal cannabis prescribed.

 

(I'm in Aus, so it's still illegal here)

hmm.. the result is debatable. 

 

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

The Universe* is the physical body of God .'

Mhm, I can agree. And that again is almost synonymous with nature, unless we subscribe to the banal view that humans are separate from it. In one way the word God is almost by definition unfathomable. But we could think about it as the union of sky-father and mother earth, and us as their offspring. 

 

Gen 8-38:40 

Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.”

Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother.
But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.

On 22.10.2023 at 10:43 PM, Daniel said:

 

I'm not arguing with you.  It would be the same.  But there are inherent limitations in the current "tech" which will need to be surrmounted.  When I consider the trends and limitations, it seems to me that the shortest path to skip over those limitations is to use different materials.  But, just as you said, and I agreed.  it's all the same.  When/if the AI catches up, my preference is that the "A" in AI get dropped all together.  Otherwise it's no different than any other form of racism and bigotry.

 

I would like to be very clear.  I am not arguing with you.  Are you arguing with me?

 

I sometimes wonder why we call it artificial intelligence because I don't see what is artificial about it. There can be no doubt that most of us have read, watched, or listened to artificial (not made by humans) content.

And then we look at what we would consider "lower life" is capable of:

 

There can be little doubt that thing is conscious. And then we have this:

The world is alive, no doubt. In English I see you use both the terms awareness and consciousness, while in my language we only have one word for both concepts. Are they different?

On 5.10.2023 at 10:44 PM, NaturaNaturans said:

They learn about the three qualities that govern the universe: goodness, passion, and ignorance.

This is kind of interresting. How there is no mention of evil, but instead ignorancr, as If bad deeds are a result of lack of knowledge or understanding.

I feel there is some paradox in saying, as i have, that god is (in) everything and everything is a part of God. It makes logically sense, i think, but at the same time it redifines god as nature.

Nietzche on the camel, lion and child, from thus spoke Zarathustra:

 

Quote

The Three Metamorphoses

THREE metamorphoses of the spirit do I designate to you: how the spirit becometh a camel, the camel a lion, and the lion at last a child.

Many heavy things are there for the spirit, the strong load-bearing spirit in which reverence dwelleth: for the heavy and the heaviest longeth its strength.

What is heavy? so asketh the load-bearing spirit; then kneeleth it down like the camel, and wanteth to be well laden.

What is the heaviest thing, ye heroes? asketh the load-bearing spirit, that I may take it upon me and rejoice in my strength.

Is it not this: To humiliate oneself in order to mortify one's pride? To exhibit one's folly in order to mock at one's wisdom?

Or is it this: To desert our cause when it celebrateth its triumph? To ascend high mountains to tempt the tempter?

Or is it this: To feed on the acorns and grass of knowledge, and for the sake of truth to suffer hunger of soul?

Or is it this: To be sick and dismiss comforters, and make friends of the deaf, who never hear thy requests?

Or is it this: To go into foul water when it is the water of truth, and not disclaim cold frogs and hot toads?

Or is it this: To love those who despise us, and give one's hand to the phantom when it is going to frighten us?

All these heaviest things the load-bearing spirit taketh upon itself: and like the camel, which, when laden, hasteneth into the wilderness, so hasteneth the spirit into its wilderness.

But in the loneliest wilderness happeneth the second metamorphosis: here the spirit becometh a lion; freedom will it capture, and lordship in its own wilderness.

Its last Lord it here seeketh: hostile will it be to him, and to its last God; for victory will it struggle with the great dragon.

What is the great dragon which the spirit is no longer inclined to call Lord and God? "Thou-shalt," is the great dragon called. But the spirit of the lion saith, "I will."

"Thou-shalt," lieth in its path, sparkling with gold- a scale-covered beast; and on every scale glittereth golden, "Thou shalt!"

The values of a thousand years glitter on those scales, and thus speaketh the mightiest of all dragons: "All the values of things- glitter on me.

All values have already been created, and all created values- do I represent. Verily, there shall be no 'I will' any more. Thus speaketh the dragon.

My brethren, wherefore is there need of the lion in the spirit? Why sufficeth not the beast of burden, which renounceth and is reverent?

To create new values- that, even the lion cannot yet accomplish: but to create itself freedom for new creating- that can the might of the lion do.

To create itself freedom, and give a holy Nay even unto duty: for that, my brethren, there is need of the lion.

To assume the ride to new values- that is the most formidable assumption for a load-bearing and reverent spirit. Verily, unto such a spirit it is preying, and the work of a beast of prey.

As its holiest, it once loved "Thou-shalt": now is it forced to find illusion and arbitrariness even in the holiest things, that it may capture freedom from its love: the lion is needed for this capture.

But tell me, my brethren, what the child can do, which even the lion could not do? Why hath the preying lion still to become a child?

Innocence is the child, and forgetfulness, a new beginning, a game, a self-rolling wheel, a first movement, a holy Yea.

Aye, for the game of creating, my brethren, there is needed a holy Yea unto life: its own will, willeth now the spirit; his own world winneth the world's outcast.

Three metamorphoses of the spirit have I designated to you: how the spirit became a camel, the camel a lion, and the lion at last a child.Thus spake Zarathustra. And at that time he abode in the town which is called The Pied Cow.

 

@Mark Foote

I should almost definetly find some kind of practice. Sitting, meditating, yoga, fasting. But i dont know, has not worked to well for me useally, and i also feel very much as a «child of Europe,» if that makes any sense what so ever. I think what i am trying to say is that it feels alien to me. But working for someone i dont like and studying something that feels lifeless and spending x hours daily on the phone is not very regarding either
Parts of me wants to move to a somewhat removed family farm of ours, but it kind of feels like resigning life. 
 

@liminal_luke

Improving yours and yours surroundings is certainly a healthy perspective. 

@Nungali

I hope i made it clear that these are not my words, but Eckarts. I think you are right that the tribal people do not struggle with this. But well… the machinery keeps on rolling. GDP must grow, no matter the cost!! 
 

@Daniel you seemed to disagree with the post, or at least the solution, so i wondered what your alternative was

 

that means something to you. I feel like music, as well as other forms for art, has an ability to speak to you on a level that words alone can not. Or maybe articulate an idea that you are not capable of articulating yet. Do not be shy, get it out there

Quote

Spoiler

Give me your hand, friend, when evening comes
It gets dark, and we need a hand
Let the bright and friendly thoughts
Guide us into the land of dreams
Let the warmth from someone who loves you
Ignite stars in the darkest night
Give me your hand, friend,
When evening falls
It gets dark, and we need a hand
Warm thoughts and comforting hands
Are like the sun over frozen ground
Feeling the warmth from someone close to you
Gives far more than big words
Let the warmth from someone who loves you
Ignite stars in the darkest night
Give me your hand, friend, when evening falls
It gets dark, and we need a hand

 

 

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

I think that whether or not it is a positive experience depends on what a person does with it.  It seems that lacking a conceptual framework, people settle on an only-me completely self-centered conceptual framework once the previous conceptual frame work has been abandoned or erased.  This makes sense because most people enjoy feeling like a god and feeling in control and it takes a lot of work to rebuild a conceptual framework.  Because of this, the path of least resistance seems to be, "I am all there is, I am all that matters, nothing else matters, nothing else exists."   It's still a conceptual framework, they have simply settled on the easiest most self-centered one.  And a lot of people agree this is the ideal.  I do not.

What is Your «answer» to it?

«The “dark night of the soul” is a term that goes back a long time.  Yes, I have also experienced it. It is a term used to describe what one could call a collapse of a perceived meaning in life…an eruption into your life of a deep sense of meaninglessness.  The inner state in some cases is very close to what is conventionally called depression.
 

Nothing makes sense anymore, there’s no purpose to anything. Sometimes it’s triggered by some external event, some disaster perhaps, on an external level.  The death of someone close to you could trigger it, especially premature death, for example if your child dies. Or you had built up your life, and given it meaning – and the meaning that you had given your life, your activities, your achievements, where you are going, what is considered important, and the meaning that you had given your life for some reason collapses.

 

It can happen if something happens that you can’t explain away anymore, some disaster which seems to invalidate the meaning that your life had before.  Really what has collapsed then is the whole conceptual framework for your life, the meaning that your mind had given it. So that results in a dark place.  But people have gone into that, and then there is the possibility that you emerge out of that into a transformed state of consciousness. Life has meaning again, but it’s no longer a conceptual meaning that you can necessarily explain.  Quite often it’s from there that people awaken out of their conceptual sense of reality, which has collapsed.

They awaken into something deeper, which is no longer based on concepts in your mind.  A deeper sense of purpose or connectedness with a greater life that is not dependent on explanations or anything conceptual any longer.  It’s a kind of re-birth. The dark night of the soul is a kind of death that you die. What dies is the egoic sense of self. Of course, death is always painful, but nothing real has actually died there – only an illusory identity.  Now it is probably the case that some people who’ve gone through this transformation realized that they had to go through that, in order to bring about a spiritual awakening. Often it is part of the awakening process, the death of the old self and the birth of the true self.

 

The first lesson in A Course in Miracles says “Nothing I see in this room means anything”, and you’re supposed to look around the room at whatever you happen to be looking at, and you say “this doesn’t mean anything”, “that doesn’t mean anything”.   What is the purpose of a lesson like that? It’s a little bit like re-creating what can happen during the dark night of the soul. It’s the collapse of a mind-made meaning, conceptual meaning, of life… believing that you understand “what it’s all about”.  With A Course in Miracles, it’s a voluntary relinquishment of the human mind-made meaning that is projected, and you go voluntary into saying “I don’t know what this means”, “this doesn’t mean anything”. You wipe the board clean. In the dark night of the soul it collapses.

 

You are meant to arrive at a place of conceptual meaninglessness.  Or one could say a state of ignorance – where things lose the meaning that you had given them, which was all conditioned and cultural and so on.  Then you can look upon the world without imposing a mind-made framework of meaning. It looks of course as if you no longer understand anything. That’s why it’s so scary when it happens to you, instead of you actually consciously embracing it.  It can bring about the dark night of the soul – to go around the Universe without any longer interpreting it compulsively, as an innocent presence. You look upon events, people, and so on with a deep sense of aliveness. Your sense the aliveness through your own sense of aliveness, but you are not trying to fit your experience into a conceptual framework anymore.»

 

On 22.10.2023 at 7:14 AM, Nungali said:

It does seem a rather 'pagan ' religion , in some aspects

 

 

Mid-Winter festival 

 

 

The eternal flame 🔥 The kvahrna part was also insightfull. Finally haha

Grazie, a little treasure of texts there

 

Abstract

In many of the world's religions, both polytheistic and monotheistic, a seemingly enigmatic and paradoxical image is found—that of the god who worships. Various interpretations of this seeming paradox have been advanced. Some suggest that it represents sacrifice to a higher deity. Proponents of anthropomorphic projection say that the gods are just “big people” and that images of human religious action are simply projected onto the deities. However, such explanations do not do justice to the complexity and diversity of this phenomenon. This book takes up anew a longstanding challenge in ancient Greek religious iconography: why are the Olympian gods depicted on classical pottery making libations? The sacrificing gods in ancient Greece are compared to gods who perform rituals in six other religious traditions: the Vedic gods, the heterodox god Zurvan of early Zoroastrianism, the Old Norse god Odin, the Christian God and Christ, the God of Judaism, and Islam's Allah. The book examines the comparative evidence from a cultural and historical perspective, uncovering deep structural resonances while also revealing crucial differences. Instead of looking for invisible recipients or lost myths, the book proposes the new category of “divine reflexivity.” Divinely performed ritual is a self-reflexive, self-expressive action that signals the origin of ritual in the divine and not the human realm. Above all, divine ritual is generative, both instigating and inspiring human religious activity. The religion practiced by the gods is both like and unlike human religious action. Seen from within the religious tradition, gods are not “big people,” but other than human. Human ritual is directed outward to a divine being, but the gods practice ritual on their own behalf. “Cultic time,” the symbiotic performance of ritual both in heaven and on earth, collapses the distinction between cult and theology each time ritual is performed.

I love the myths and epics and poetry of the indo-europeans. We know they had a concept of a drink that made them immortal/gods: wine of Dionyous, Soma, Mead of poetry… I dont know why i meantioned that, i just think it is cool. 
Anyway, we know quite a bit of their myths and epics and gods, but it seems to me, their practice (like magic), is for the most part lost? How did the indo-euro pagans seek approach the divine?

There is only one of the brances that is still alive, hinduism, so maybe thats a start? Or maybe they did not care so much about religion or the gods, but saw the divine in nature and tried to live life fully.

Many people here seems to be «searching» and «seeking unity/understanding etc.» Just a comment: i think an interresting addition to this thread, is If people add what led to it, what you took away from it and what the next step was, like Nungali over here.

 

My experience, after i landed, was a deep need to understand reality, build a new map. Trough convo with a certain someone, it seems to me, that the next step is following the heart, inspiration, Genius, will… «do what you want the law to be…» something like that, isnt that what you say? Is this what you call «the abyss» or «thelema» btw? Or maybe «the fool?» «beyond good and evil,» Once again dear to be naked with no shame, and reclaim paradise?

______________________________________

WHY ODIN IS ONE-EYED

 

My interpertation was that he has one eye, because the other is looking inwards. Fascinating how all he seems is wisdom, he travels the realms on an Eight legged horse, had two ravens who saw for him and two wolfs as well, all for an incurable search for knowledge.

What news from the gods?

What news from the elves?

All Jotunheim is roaring,

the Aesir are in counsel,

and the dwarves,

creatures of the mountains,

tremble by their doors of stone.

Have you learned enough yet, Allfather?

 

Surt comes from the south

with a bright light in his hand,

yes, the sun shines upon

the sword in his grasp.

The mountains collapse,

the trolls fall,

men walk the road to Hel,

and the skies divide above

What news from the gods?

What news from the elves?

All Jotunheim is roaring,

the Aesir are in counsel,

and the dwarves,

creatures of the mountains,

tremble by their doors of stone.

Have you learned enough yet, Allfather?

 

Surt comes from the south

with a bright light in his hand,

yes, the sun shines upon

the sword in his grasp.

The mountains collapse,

the trolls fall,

men walk the road to Hel,

and the skies divide above

 

 

https://norse-mythology.org/tales/odins-discovery-of-the-runes/

https://norse-mythology.org/tales/why-odin-is-one-eyed/

https://magebymoonlight.com/the-norns/

 

 

9 minutes ago, Gerard said:

More info here:

 

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/who-we-are/history-of-dops/dr-ian-stevenson/

One thing i find funny about «the skeptic types,» is that they talk about how there is zero evidence for the paranormal, but if you tell them you have experienced it, they refer you to a psychiratist.

Segment from thus spoke Zarathustra:

 

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

So, from my perspective, this experience  was a crucial node , a connection to my 'essential energy / astrological make-up '  and understanding myself . Not that it happened back then, it took years and years of other experiences, ' tie ins', learning things and I think very significantly was the months long workshop I did on reading your own natal chart and interpreting it  yourself .   Boy did that put a lot of pieces together  !   Not only just to explain  ' this is how you are ' ... but also, strangely   a lot of the unusual stuff that happened  to me  .

How deep is the rabbit hole/journey?

On 28.7.2023 at 12:43 AM, Apech said:

 

Anything that can be accomplished by movement and forms can be accomplished without them.

 

Meditation is not meditation.

 

The only guru is you.

 

Most western Buddhists and Daoists are Christian.

 

All of those reading this are incomplete beings.

 

There is nothing wrong with thinking.

 

Everything presented as non-conceptual is essentially conceptual.

 

Jhanas lead to more suffering.

 

Compassion is sheep quietly eating grass waiting for the slaughterman's wagon.

 

To love fully destroys you.

 

Wisdom means to know less.

 

 

Thats not unpopular, its pure gold. But id like If you could clarify this: To love fully destroys you.

 

In a positive or negative sense? And id also add that compasion is only a weakness if it is unbalanced/unwise/with out the power, courage and knowledge to act it out