Keith108

I suspect discussions about Taoism suffer the same problem as Zen discussion. Talking about things that need to be experienced (e.g. mystic paths) make for poor forum fodder.

Guilty as charged. It's a bad habit of mine. I don't feel like putting in the energy to go back and forth while we talk past each other. It's painfully obvious we won't ever be on the same page on this. It's not passive aggressive, though. Just a sense of bewilderment. I did offer a perspective. I was basically called a dogma spewing fundamentalist. Again, no snide-ness. Just confusion. It feels like if the thread were titled "Let's talk about baseball." And then a discussion about cabinet making ensued. I like it here...until the conversation turns to Buddhism. I just need to exercise the self control needed to stay out of these threads. _/|\_

Couldn't agree more, Mark. This is a very bizarre discussion of Buddhism. Or at least, a very different one. _/|\_

Thanks Maddie. All good. As I have said before, I am not here to talk about Buddhist practice. It's my fault for butting in. I trust experience, not philosophy and intellectualizing. This conversation is not one I really should have entered in the first place. _/|\_

Corey has done a good job integrating embodiment into the practice. It tends to be an afterthought for most.

_/|\_ I will take my ball and go home now.

No attachments. Dharmawheel is good for Buddhist arguments. No offense intended. Just hate seeing the practice dragged this way. 🙏 Keith

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This thread tho...sheesh. The Four Noble Truths are in the beginning, the middle, and in the end a complete path, in that they address dukkha and the end of dukkha. All the various paths/yanas of the Buddhism end up there. The timeframe and practices may be different, but they all lead to the complete cessation of dukkha. Now, Buddhism is an incomplete path, in that it doesn't tell us how to fix a car, are what to eat to maintain a healthy body. Etc., etc. Maybe the question should have been: "From a non-practitioner or academic pov, is Buddhism a complete path?" That the thread has generated these kinds of responses isn't surprising. This isn't a Buddhist forum. But, there is a clear difference between responses from people who haven taken refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, and those who kind of dabble in Buddhism (not that there is anything wrong with that!) _/|\_

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I hope you have recovered well, Vajra Fist! I had to chuckle a little, because except for the humming, I have done these things at various times, although usually for physical fitness reasons. And yeah, there is some bro science in there! I only did the mouth taping thing a couple times, because I found ripping the tape off (even a small piece of micro pore tape) to be pretty awful. I have been practicing mouth closed belly breathing for many years, so unless I am sick, I rarely open my mouth at night. Anyway, interesting stuff! Edit: oops -did a little necro posting. Didn't realize how old this thread is. Sorry!

Can one say whether a path is complete or not, having not completed it. Is Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi possible? I don't know. I have faith in the Three Jewels, and follow the path because I believe it to be a complete one. But belief/non-belief is part of the cause of Dukkha, so in the end, I just practice and see what happens. _/|\_

Sure. Sit down, back straight, breath into the belly, place the attention on the question. It's not special. It's human nature to question the nature of this existence. BUT, for.some folks, some grounding is necessary. This type of deep inquiry isn't always pleasant. For them, maybe MBSR or something similar is a better path. When speaking with fellow students, I am careful in the extreme to suggest that just doing any type of meditation is not a panacea. Direction of the practice is of utmost importance. For some issues, therapy etc., is also needed. 🙏

Yes, let’s please not open that giant can of worms! 🤪 Karma and rebirth are quite settled in my mind, and in my practice. To “know thyself” can only be understood through direct experience. The most direct path to that experience is to quiet the mind and body, and simply ask: “what is this self”? 🙏

I dragged my Buddhist bag of stuff into the conversation. Probably should have not done that. In philosophical conversations, I find myself quickly in over my head. To say there is self or not a self is a big mistake. A little look into dependent origination make this clear. It's pretty much common sense. So then, what is this "self"? That's the beginning of "know thyself". Again, this is just my Buddhist viewpoint, and probably not relevant to this thread. I'll bow out here. _/|\_

Oy…we could back and forth for infinite pages trying to describe something that can’t be described.

For.me, it means know my true self, not the delusional self.

A nice example of wu wei, I would think. These little openings tend to happen when we least expect them. Enjoy and move on. The worst thing to do, and I am speaking from experience, is to try to recreate them. _/|\_

I had the same experience when I took a survey of Asian religions course as an elective in college. Once I learned about the Four Noble Truths, that was that. I was hooked. This was in 1991, and I am still at it. I'm endlessly grateful for the practice, which I feel quite literally saved my life. The primary practice I follow is in my signature, and also keeping the precepts. _/|\_

Interesting, sorry to hear about the adhd. I like to use the word rhythm, instead of boredom. If a rhythm can be found, like a heart beat, or the sun coming up everyday, then there is no boredom. For sure, it’s different for everyone. 🙏

I can only speak for myself, but I value silence and the opportunity to not have to stay busy.

Read, sit (meditation, zazen, whatever you do), go for a walk. Boredom is highly underrated. 🙏

Please re-read the second sentence I wrote. We are actually in agreement. Again, this is why i hesitate to bring up Buddhist practice here. I'll bow out here. _/|\_

I guess it's the direction of the disagreement that is important to me. Why am I disagreeing? It's important to reflect on why we are doing things. The only reason to voice a disagreement is if the point being countered is hurtful to the person or another person. I don't agree with questioning what people believe, no matter how unbelievable it may seem. Why? Because I don't know. A case: Dizang asked Fayan, “Where are you going?” Fayan said, “I am wandering aimlessly.” “What do you think of wandering?” “I don’t know.” “Not knowing is most intimate.” Fayan was suddenly awakened. Mitchell's Translation of Verse 71 of the DDJ begins with: Not-knowing is true knowledge. Presuming to know is a disease. Reading this thread about alchemy does test my limits of what seems possible. But, believing or not believing are both beliefs. Not knowing is truly most intimate. _/|\_

You absolutely did not, Maddie. I confused some of the posts. Ah well, looks like the situation was resolved. _/|\_