oattao

Hi. I am new here. I found this forum because I've just returned from Thailand where I attended to o one of Mantak Chia's courses on sexual transmutation and was initiated on his lineage. Started a consistent taoist practice focused on Qi gong and his methods for sexual transmutation. I am 35, male, and are extremely interested in what sexuality can open for consciousness expansion and growth. I find that in this forum, there are many experienced practitioners and even masters, or self proclaimed masters and I really value other perspectives, opinions and problematizations, as ways for finding the fastest way toward Truth. Towards The Way. Happy to be here.

So, you have been able to move sexual energy around the microcosmc orbit? What about multiple orgasms and the activation of upper body chakras within sexual transmutation energies? (the boiling of the water and the use of steam, if you recall). The healing sounds, many instructors said, were for evening practices geared towards rest and sleep. And the main practice, Qi weightlifting? Has it been beneficial to you? Problematic?

This is exactly what intrigues me. This really touches core for me. The fact that so many people sware by his teachings, and others (you can pick up the teacher or philosophy here, including this one -respectfully and with admiration, must be said-), others don't, is a testament to this problem. More precisely: a conundrum. And it is logical to conclude that because the system works for some people, thus keeps spreading generationally and culturally. That is what we assume. The Big question is (Big question), if things in ultimate reality are to be discovered (as Truth, what the Greeks called Aleteia) or things are to be created (Constructed). This would mean that a collective psicosis (whatever level of involvement you want, be it a whole Culture, a discipline, a Society, a Religion, a Standard model, a psychotic break) can be reinforced enough to produce reality at the level of experience. If this is the case, how far can you go? Did people who have articulated over centuries disciplines, systems and philosophies discover things, or the discovery is a process of creation by disciplined belief? This seems to be at the core of Chia`s system, and, if you want to push it, most esoteric systems.

This is so true. But therein lies the question. Because so many of the NeoTantra- Taoist-sexuality figures of our time claim to have been initiated by him and are instructors and disciples in his system. This is the case for most non-traditionalist of the West, the ones we layman looked for when starting in the path of Spirituality. This bears the question: then the system works in spite of the teacher? All that many people cannot be wrong, or are they all scammers and the scam continues generation past generation?Because this is not dogma, it should be verifiable,. At least that is the promise. Because there are many, many instructors that tribute to his teachings in several countries, languages and cultures. I spent 14 days at the Tao Garden and you could feel the collective energy of the devotees that is so evident when people regard a place as sacred. But the guru did not feel at all like a special person. He was more, as you describe him, as a facade of enlightenment. and the figure holding everything together. But also, he has a sense of innocence, a lack of shrewdness (he, clearly is not a strategist or an accomplished conman, or a great orator, intellectual, or teacher -some of this characteristics you could clearly see in people like Osho, or close to him, Micheal Wimm-). As you said, won a lucky ticket, it seems, and was in the middle of things at the right moment. This simplicity, surprisingly, gives one peace of mind. It seems he is, in many ways, authentic with his transmission, even though the substance of his teachings is small and simple -so much so that I had to complement those days with books and talks by Alan Watts to understand the broader philosophy and implications of the sexual subset of Taoism. And yes, he openly states to be interested in money. But that may be part of a cultural tendency particular to many Asian countries, a tendency to adore wealth that we in the West don't find tasteful in public discourse, although we viciously enact de facto in our polity. He is also getting old and starts to loose his precision (if he ever had it in past years. I don´t know), so he might be more exposed.

I believe it is because he seems to be more interested in his institution than in his own spiritual development. All of us who have met him can see some of that in his demeanor. I believe this appreciation is a mixture of two things: first and foremost, his courses are filled with "fillers". The older he gets, the more evident. This might be great for those seeking a father figure cloaked in a guru, but the substance of his teaching is very scant. When you boil down the actual teachings, they are very simple, almost childish. This is not depreciatory at all. but for us westerners, it can feel like a bit of a scam. And this touches the second point: his teachings are experiential. "Once you practice, you get it"he says all the time. And it is true. This a cultural difference: induction vrs deduction. One 'gets" the overarching theory of his system after practicing. and this can look very bad at the early stages, as his delivery is confusing, messy, and kind of scammy. He is not a great transmitter, at all, but he lived the destiny of being the first famous asian who was able to translate to the West the teachings in a massive scale. That, alone, honors him tremendously.

The upper photo is my picture after leaving Chiang Mai...!

Beyond the joke, I mean that it really activates and potentiates sexual energy and its disposition for transmutation. What happens afterwards: how it affects your psyche, and it works in your energy system and you manage to `deploy' this energy is another matter. I am a musician and, traditionally, sexuality and creativity are profoundly connected. For me, 'flowing' in the sense of music bu most importantly in the sense of Life, is essential. As Friederich Chopin said, "my music is written with the vitality of semen". I suppose after sometime, Chia`s method will get the Jing circulating more powerfully. I was curios to know if his method is actually derived from ancient texts and practices, as he claims it is. Only praxis will tell if it bears any fruits. It remains to be seen for me...

So... it works!

Are there any other authors who also talk about 'healing Tao' or sexual transmutation, or genital weightlifting that you, expert walkers on the Path, know about? Any other authors who articulate similar techniques to what Mantak Chia is teaching?

In which way, Maddie? Can you explain?

Thanks for asking. My experience in this system has been confusing. The theory is kind of clear -as Chia`s system is very simple, in my opinion, bur is packaged in such a way to make it seem complex and mysterious- but it seems that one needs a lot of discipline and dedication to feel results. I am yet to see that. It's only been three months, since having been formally initiated. I actually found this forum researching further into what was considered the crowning practice, "Qi weightlifting", something which Nuralshamal wrote extensively about (more extensively than what I got in the 2 weeks retreat in Thailand, I must say...). I've also read that Mantak Chia doesn't have a good reputation within the ranks of this forum. Glad to be here.

Well noticed!