Tommy

Yes, all true. And as you have given to me, advice, before speaking to see if the words are in the light of compassion, kindness and helpful. So, it doesn't matter what I think of their stories or reality. It does matter that I remain attentive and compassionate and do no harm. I understand that there is conventional truth and ultimate truth. And the critical eye you are pointing to. Since my experiences are of conventional truth, it is difficult to know what the wise choice of action is. So, I try to remain open and understanding when dealing with others. I do get caught up in my own reality, thoughts. Not always doing the right thing. But, I am trying to learn and grow. Thanks for the help.

Yeah, that is reading a person's outward behavior. Body language? Lairg (from his post) seems to actually see the Karmic energy. I do not discount what he believes he sees. I just think it is extra-ordinary to be able to see this Karmic energy. And you are right, one can see tell tale signs of Karma. Some call that body language?? Personally, I have never had extra ordinary experiences. No seeing beings or Goddesses or Guardians. No seeing people's auras. No seeing people's past or future. Although reading a person can be fairly easy to see if they are troubled or open and free. I once met a beautiful girl who said she could see worlds thru the walls. Full blown stories and adventures. And, I told her that she was an amazing person. Quite unique. No judgement. Because judgement would have shut down her story about herself. I liked that she was open enough to talk with me. So, I told her she was fascinating and wish we could talk more. Sorry, I never saw her again.

It can be a scary experience for those not understanding what is happening. Not wanting this, it can make one think that they are losing their minds or grip on reality. So, important to have a good teacher and sangha.

It can be a scary experience for those not understanding what is happening. Not wanting this, it can make one think that they are losing their minds or grip on reality. So, important to have a good teacher.

I am guessing that my ignorance of such things protect me from whatever goes bump in the night. But, whenever the conditions are right, those things that need to be worked out will arise and play out their dance to dispel their energies. And since I have no way to know these things, I go on in my ignorance as happy or sad as life wishes it to be.

Agreed. No second hand experiences will prove the existence of Goddesses or Guardians or whatever. I am happy to hear that you have had such experiences. Personally, I have not. I do not discount your experiences but I also do not believe them cause I have not had those experiences. Forgive me my ignorance. Whether countless others have had those experiences or not doesn't change my world or beliefs. Just like those that claim to have been enlightened. I do not believe. But, I do not discount their experience just because I have not had those experiences. When I read about the Buddha and his words of wisdom, I take everything with a large grain of salt. I do not believe everything instantly. Instead I take his words and set them aside until I learn more. Ultimate truth, Buddha nature is not something one can just say yes I believe. It does no good. And It changes nothing. Then even having had such experiences; that nothing changes. Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment chop wood and carry water. And so I believe even having first hand experiences with Goddesses, Guardians or whatever will in the end change nothing but POV.

Quan Yin is considered to be a Goddess of Mercy. How many Goddesses do you know have a human body?? Who said she was alive? Which Buddhist sect did this come from? Hmm. more legend than delusion?? Or more stories from the edge?? I don't know. But, how about bringing something up which we all can verify as real or existed? Anyway, you can believe whatever you wish to believe. You are not right nor wrong. But, I do not have to believe your words either. Fair??

Thanks for the reply. This thread was started by me to ask about no-self and rebirth. Nothing about absolutes. Nothing about relative truths. So you start off on a false premise. Then you ask me if I know what happens when a person dies. The Buddha says there is no self that is reborn. That a person is a collection of stuff, aggregates. And when asked to show what is the essence that can be called this person, there is no such thing. A metaphor was a car. Take apart a car and you will not find one thing that is the essence that can be called a car. Similar with a person. I do not claim to know what happens when one dies. I only present what was taught to me. I do not believe I talk as if I know anything. But, I do as others have and regurgitate what I have learned. As for meditating, I have on and off practice for over 50 years. The one thing I did learn from that practice is that one can not proceed much further without a teacher and sangha. So why do you deny me this right of freewill?? The right to believe what I want?? No, divine essence is not the same as No-self. When you use your conventional knowledge, that is fine for everyday use. It will help you get thru life. But, when you wish to see the ultimate truth, Buddha nature, then you will need to drop this self. For this self can not experience the truth. It is part of the delusion. Your wish for divine essence to be real just because you can feel emotions doesn't make it real. Divine essence is the same as your emotions, feelings. They will disappear as soon as you die. Gone because they were nothing more than part of this delusion. You have no need to listen to me or to read this thread. Totally fine for Buddhist to believe whatever they want. I wish you well and hope you find a teacher and sangha to help you on your spiritual journey.

Thank you. Yes, I think I do understand it intellectually. And hope eventually thru practice. But, do not want to hi jack this thread which is similar to my recent thread about no soul and rebirth. The point of self observation to see the self or emptiness of self may become a real possibility which then explains how rebirth is possible with no self. But, no words can explain. Hmm, I just read what I wrote and it makes no sense. Anyway, thanks.

Thanks you for your encouragement.

When I started, there was this constant thinking of what I was doing. After some practice, there were moments of quiet. However, there was still this point of view. Of a person watching, here I am . Sometimes not focused on the object or the crutch I was using to focus my mind (breath). Later, the thought process seems to be what the mind was at that moment. I never understood the words about the river. That one can not step into the river in the same spot twice. But, turns out the mind is like the river. And one is never the same as stuff changes all the time. So, the river changes and is not the same from moment to moment as the mind is not the same. Guess maybe I really don't understand. Or maybe just doing it wrong?? But, thanks for your kind words.

Wasn't GOD a burning bush in the times of Moses? And earlier on man (Adam) was made in the image of GOD? I once saw him in a movie. He was 6 feet tall and a black man. He was working in a diner as the waiter. In another movie he was a short white man smoking a cigar. All this suggest that GOD is different for each person who chooses to look upon the face of GOD?? If someone knows better then I stand corrected.

This thread is about the paradox of no self and rebirth. A person may not have a self as in soul or spirit . But, it also does not deny the chance to escape rebirth cause there is such a thing as birth. It is the Karmic energy that flows from one cycle to the next. This Karma is created by ignorance and cravings. Take what you will from that. I know you have read many books and have much knowledge from those readings. I wish you well.

You say there is no grand lesson, beyond living. But, then you give the reason of developing appreciation for all life has to offer. I think you are missing the differences in those statements. Buddhist believe there is no self because the body is made up of aggregates. These aggregates make up this self that one grows up to know as self. There is no one thing inside of the body that can be called the self. Like the car is just a collection of items. There is not one thing inside the car that is essentially a car. It is a collection of stuff. Yet, one clings to the idea that we are all temporary forms of the divine. Everything is related and so everything is divine. Everything is special and so, nothing is special. Point to that which is spirit or soul or divine?? This mind is the result of this body. If one drinks alcohol then one will get a change in awareness. The alcohol affects the body which affects the mind. This mind is of the body. There is no divine essence. One only wishes it to be so. When a person dies, memories do not continue only Karma. What you believe in is up to you. It is your choice. Buddha gave a different Idea. And it is up to the individual to claim the truth. And ignorance can not be vanquished by thoughts or book only thru experience. The more knowledge you gain thru books then the more stuff you have to organize. The knowledge gained thru experience will organize you. That is my belief and opinion.

That is extraordinary to be able to see Karma on a person. I have never heard of this but am open to the idea. Guessing it would be strange to not see it on most people? Meaning there is ignorance and craving abounding.