Da_Vid

On 7/15/2024 at 12:20 AM, Mark Foote said:

 

 

All I know of Daoism are the things I've read, Lao Tzu and Chuang-Tzu (Zhuangzi). I think in many ways Ch'an is a fusion of Buddhism and Daoism, but I haven't done the research to back that up, or to provide examples.

 

I learned part of a Tai Chi form, because that part was taught for free in a park near me.  I still practice that, and I sit zazen and practice kinhin (the walking that goes with the sitting).

Some material I've found useful, from the Tai Chi classics (and other places):

 

The classic literature of Tai Chi appears to identify the ligaments of the body as a source of activity.  The literature describes three levels in the development of “ch’i”, a word that literally translates as “breath” but in practice is taken to refer to a fundamental energy of the body, and each of the three levels has three stages.

 

The stages of the first level are:
 

“… relaxing the ligaments from the shoulder to the wrist”; “from the hip joint to the heel”; “from the sacrum to the headtop”.   

(“Three Levels” from “Cheng Tzu’s Thirteen Treatises on Ta’i Chi Chuan”, Cheng Man Ch’ing, trans. Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo and Martin Inn, p 77-78)

 

Unlike the contraction and relaxation of muscles, the stretch and resile of ligaments can’t be voluntarily controlled.  The muscles across the joints can, however, be relaxed in such a way as to allow the natural stretch and resile of ligaments–that would seem to be the meaning of the advice to “relax the ligaments”. 
 

The stages of the second level are:
 

“sinking ch’i to the tan t’ien” (a point below and behind the navel); “the ch’i reaches the arms and legs”; “the ch’i moves through the sacrum (wei lu) to the top of the head (ni wan)”.  

(ibid)

 

Tai Ch’i master Cheng Man Ch’ing advised that the ch’i will collect at the tan-t’ien until it overflows into the tailbone and transits to the top of the head, but he warned against any attempt to force the flow.
 

Omori Sogen cautioned similarly:
 

… It may be the least trouble to say as a general precaution that strength should be allowed to come to fullness naturally as one becomes proficient in sitting.  We should sit so that our energy increases of itself and brims over instead of putting physical pressure on the lower abdomen by force.   

(“An Introduction to Zen Training: A Translation of Sanzen Nyumon”, Omori Sogen, tr. Dogen Hosokawa and Roy Yoshimoto, Tuttle Publishing, p 59)
 

I would posit that the patterns in the development of ch’i reflect involuntary activity of the body generated in the stretch of ligaments. There is, in addition, a possible mechanism of support for the spine from the displacement of the fascia behind the spine, a displacement that can be effected by pressure generated in the abdominal cavity and that may quite possibly depend on a push on the fascia behind the sacrum by the bulk of the extensor muscles, as they contract (see my Kinesthesiology of Fascial Support). 
 

The final level in the development of ch’i concerns “chin”.  According to the classics, “chin comes from the ligaments” (“Three Levels” from “Cheng Tzu’s Thirteen Treatises on Ta’i Chi Chuan”, Cheng Man Ch’ing, trans. Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo and Martin Inn, p 77-78). 
 

The three stages of the final level are:
 

“t’ing chin, listening to or feeling strength”; “comprehension of chin”; “omnipotence”.   

(ibid)

 

Another translator rendered the last stage above as “perfect clarity” (“Master Cheng’s Thirteen Chapters on T’ai-Chi Ch’uan”, Douglas Wile, p 57). In my estimation, “perfect clarity” is “the pureness of (one’s) mind” that Gautama associated with “the cessation of inbreathing and outbreathing” in the fourth concentration.
 

The Tai Chi classics emphasize relaxation. For me, calm is also required with regard to the stretch of ligaments, if “automatic movement” is to be realized.  The stretch of a ligament prior to strain is small (6%), and I would say that automatic movement is only initiated at the edge of the range. 
 

Cheng Man Ch’ing mentioned a Chinese description of seated meditation, “straighten the chest and sit precariously”–I think that also speaks to the necessity of calm (ibid, p 21).

 

(A Way of Living)

 

 

 

Could you please recommend me books to read guiding me trough Daoism, I would appreciate very much if you would mark me with number in which order to read them... 

Hi I am David,

I believe my Chi is strong but I do not know how to guide it as I more forcing sometimes accidentally,
still I am learning... 

Would someone spare time from now and than and teach me? As I am seeking for a teacher, does someone have recommendation or if teacher reading this, would you please contact me?

I would very much appreciate...

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Sorry, I am not a Daoist. Explain what is happening? Probably not. But, I can guess at what is happening ... would that do?

When focusing mental energy, spiritual energy tends to follow. When combined, they do not flow easily with out guidance or practice.  So the spot experiences energy it is not accustomed to. Spend more time in such a state and the energy knots up and causes more discomfort. Shift the focus and the energy is dispersed. Allowed to flow elsewhere.

 

As silly as it may sound, pain can sometimes make focus stronger. Pain draws our attention. We find it may be impossible to ignore. Usually pain means that something is wrong. So, would not pursue unless one has a teacher.

 

When practicing meditation, one needs to pull attention together. The mind will flow and thoughts will constantly go on. When focused on breath, pull the attention together. So when observing the in breath, one says "in" and that is all there is. Do the same for the out breath. This practice will help to develop one pointed attention or concentration. Then when not just sitting, walking about, the mind must keep attention or remain mindful. This brings more control. Basically, putting the things in order and in their correct places. And when the mind is ready, stillness or emptiness or oneness or nothing at all can happen. 

Thank you.

Sadly I do not have a teacher, is it possible to have a teacher via Internet connection? 

When I am focusing on the spot when I am breathing it tend to start to burn or to hurt, why is that? Could anyone explain what is happening? But when I shift focus on something else the pain goes away...?

It is more like a pain of cramp of some kind that the longer my focus in on it the pain gets stronger...

On 7/13/2024 at 1:50 AM, Mark Foote said:

 

 

You can fault me for offering from Buddhist teachings instead of Daoist, but I think these teachings borrowed from each other in China.

 

In one of his lectures, Shunryu Suzuki spoke about the difference between “preparatory practice” and “shikantaza”, or “just sitting”:
 

But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. 

(“The Background of Shikantaza”, Shunryu Suzuki; San Francisco, February 22, 1970; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com)
 

Suzuki said that directing attention to the movement of breath (“following breathing… counting breathing”) has the feeling of “doing something”, and that “doing something” makes such practice only preparatory.
 

Although attention can be directed to the movement of breath, necessity in the movement of breath can also direct attention, as I wrote previously:
 

There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.
 

There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages.
 

(Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

 

 

Thank you for your answer. The link you provided their mentioning ZEN (Mahayana) Buddhism and Theravada, together which is little bit confusing. 

Never the less for a reason I do not want to practice Theravada Buddhism anymore...

Could you please tell me what is the difference between ZEN (Mahayana) Buddhism and Daoism? Where in Daoism there is Chi? In which existence I believe, and in Daoism the way of living is the simple way if I am correct?

On 7/12/2024 at 7:08 PM, Cobie said:

Hi David. Thanks and a warm hello to you too. Welcome to the forum.    

 

 

Listen to your body. 

 

 

The body knows how to breathe; you don’t. Get out of the way and let your body get on with it. 

 

Spontaneous Qi Gong

 

 

Thanks,

the one teacher said that Spontaneous Qi Gong can be dangerous if there is not a teacher beside you to guide you how to do it....

Thank you for your answer. The link you provided their mentioning ZEN (Mahayana) Buddhism and Theravada, together which is little bit confusing. 

Never the less for a reason I do not want to practice Theravada Buddhism anymore...

Could you please tell me what is the difference between ZEN (Mahayana) Buddhism and Daoism? Where in Daoism there is Chi? In which existence I believe, and in Daoism the way of living is the simple way if I am correct?

Hi and warm hello from David.

Could someone tell me where I can find the book about afterlife or if could someone tell me a wider description about afterlife in Daoism?
 

Hi, warm hello to one reading this,
my name is David.

I am wondering as I am traveling from Buddhist journey to the Daoism journey.

I am questioning myself about meditation when I came across various types and techniques of Daoist meditations.
As there is standing meditation, how to stand? What do you suggest? 

Breathing; when breathing on what do we focus and how to avoid when mind wonders while meditating, are we saying words like "inhale", "exhale" or it is something different?

Please guide me towards meditation techniques as my first steps on the journey towards Daoism. 

Hi, wish you good day who ever is reading this. I am from Serbia and this is my first time using forum, apologies for my English and any inconvenience, feel free to send me an email about it.

I studied little bit Buddhism and learn how to meditate, but got very interested about balance and I search on Internet about it and Daosim came up, read little bit, remembering today about that it said that in Daoism simplicity and gentleness are practicing. 

I am all about balance and trying my best to respect the balance.
I care and respect nature, also I am studying and working.

If there is anything else needed for introduction, feel free to send me an email.

I am sorry that I did not read the rules of forum, hope I will do..

I wish to learn more about Daoism, and to extend my knowledge about Daoism.