tongkosong

The Dao Bums
  • Content count

    61
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by tongkosong

  1. mopai

    What Neikung said was, "... intense heat that supposedly show completion of level 1 but those were completely false. No Mopai students ever had those "signs"." He was referring to the heat as a sign of level 1 completion. We were never taught, by John Chang, nor measured our progress by this feeling of intense heat. Jim was never appointed nor "certified" by anyone in Mopai as a teacher. He was a Westerner who met John Chang and were taught some meditation techniques. He came and met John Chang, at most, once a year, for a few days at a time. Truthfully, would a school consider such a person certifiable to teach? I'm not trying to belittle Jim or his accomplishments, but, we have to see this rationally. There's more to this story that is known to the public. Let's just leave it at that. Take great care in trying out the Mopai training by yourself. We don't wish harm to come to anyone. The reason we started to post again was due to what Sabretooth described, which is not an optimal situation and could be dangerous.
  2. mopai

    Ken, this statement you made is actually wrong. Throughout Jim's training under John Chang, he had made numerous trip to see John Chang. Sure, gauging Jim's progress was one of the reasons he made those trips, but, the other big reason was for John Chang to look at his training; to see if there's anything that Jim was doing that needed corrections or advice on the training itself. I'm not going to disclose anything specific, but, remember that neigong is a powerful product of the training, so you should assume that the training itself has to be done correctly to avoid deviating from the correct technique, and any deviation from the correct technique can be deadly. Sure, the first few levels sound pretty easy and simple. However, one small mistake done numerous times for numerous years will be quite devastating to the body of the practitioner. The reason how we know is because it had happened many times to a number of Mopai students, even those who had access to John Chang. Many times these students think that they are pretty smart and knowledgable about Qi and/or its theories and training methods. They tried to "improve" their training without asking for guidance. First, it's a small deviation of movement that felt more "comfortable" than how they were taught. Next, they "felt" their Qi and "know" how to guide it. Pretty soon, they will experience what we call Zou Huo Ru Mo. What Sabretooth is talking about is exactly the result of someone experiencing Zou Huo Ru Mo. Someone, a few years back, did have a mark in his palm after practicing incorrectly for quite a while. John Chang and another elder checked his condition and found that student to be in that state of Zou Huo Ru Mo. In that person's case, it was almost to the point of life-threatening. I, sincerely, hope that Sabretooth is no where close to that. The only thing to do is to stop whatever he is doing at once and get help. We know that it's not realistic to ask Mopai enthusiasts to stop practicing "Mopai". I'm not going to argue the credibility of those techniques, and I have read them. I'm not going to argue that those techniques are actually identical to what John Chan taught Jim. We are adults and have to take responsibility to our actions. Our, Neikung and I, reason to comment on this forum is to remind you guys the pitfalls of training without REAL guidance from a REAL authentic Mopai teacher. i wish you guys well and be safe.
  3. Truthfully, I try not to take side in any debate or arguments in this forum. I have no understanding about numerology. The 72 levels are referring to the number of xue dao(s) in our body. No clue as to the significance or relevance of the number 72 to anything else. The ability one gains through neigong allows a person to do many things and open his/her world to many things that an average person cannot. To label those abilities as "sorcery" or "magick", is just is, a label. Maybe when we have advanced our knowledge further, one day we shall call it science.
  4. Leo, I can't force people to stop labeling Jim's instructions as "real Mo Pai". I don't agree with it as it is not an accurate Mo Pai instructions. I can't stop anyone from doing anything, but, I felt it is my duty to let people know what the truth is. Many people have been using the Mo Pai's name for many things; some people used it for bad things. There was a website labeled as the official Mo Pai website, and we refuted it. There was a teacher saying that he himself is a student of the current Mo Pai headmaster, and we refuted that. All I, and my Mo Pai "brothers", can do is tell the truth and refute those that are untrue, in the hopes that people will not fall victim to false teachings and scammers.
  5. Ken, as far as we know, there is no other Mo Pai school in China. The reason being, Liao qianbei, John Chang's teacher, was the only student of Pai Lok Nen qianbei, and Liao qianbei only had 2 students, John Chang and another (who has passed many years ago).
  6. Ken, yes, John Chang wanted non-Chinese to know more about Neigong because neigong allows us, human beings, to be more than who most of us are. He wanted to share this knowledge, but, he was reminded of his oath to Mo Pai's rule (an ancient rule, not made recently as some might think). Thus, he stopped all teachings. When Jim started to teach others, he did so without John Chang's permission. How I know? I asked John Chang himself and there were correspondences between John Chang's son and Jim discussing this issue. You may doubt my identity as a Mo Pai student, but, I have been a Tao Bum member more than five years, and throughout that time, I have corresponded with many Tao Bum members in regards to Mo Pai. If anything I have stated been untrue, please take this time to refute me. I understand your frustration, Ken, and many of your fellow practitioners. Many of us in Mo Pai understand this, however, we, as students of the Mo Pai lineage, are bound to our oath to the Mo Pai's rules and regulations. There is nothing we can do. If John Chang, himself, can't go against the rules, how can we as students do so? If so, how can Jim has John Chang's blessings to teach. Ken, no one can force you to stop doing what you do. Believe me, I have tried telling many people the dangers of practicing Neigong techniques improperly and without the guidance of a proper teacher from that system, and most still continued their training. There are a few (I won't mention their names) who suffered some "side affects" from improperly practicing these techniques. Even those still continued training. My advice to you is to find a neigong system that will accept you as students and has teachers who will guide you in your training. I am sure there are some. I apologize if this is not the answer you seek. Believe me, there are many people just like you, some even moved to Indonesia, but we have to honor and abide to our lineage and rules. If you can't accept this, then forgive our hardheadedness because we are nothing if we live without honor and obedience to our ancestors. To Leo, I'm sorry for not understanding your statement as follows: "The techniques may be lacking, but then, do you fully salute what you deem as improper techniques, posted as MoPai?" I wish you all safe training.
  7. Ken, you speak of respect for Jim and his private teachings. I find it ironic that Jim, himself, did not have the honor and respect for John Chang and his lineage when he taught others Mo Pai's techniques when he never had permission to do so. Before anyone can debate whether Jim had John Chang's permission to teach, consider this, if John Chang himself was not allowed to teach non-Chinese, would he give permission to Jim to teach to others? Furthermore, I have read Jim's instructions on Mo Pai techniques. They are faulty and many parts of the instructions Jim added himself, thus, not the real Mo Pai techniques. Just be careful when you train using those improper instructions.
  8. What Are "Legitimate" Qi Abilities/Power?

    No, we were never charged money for any teachings. As far as I know, no "inner student" of Mopai ever benefitted, monetarily, from teachings. We were sworn to never use the knowledge we received, from Mopai's teachings and techniques, to use as a means of monetary benefit. You do not need to apologize for posting any comments on our school/system. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, as long as it is done with respect and non-malice. Arguments happen all the time. If not, in my opinion, progress can't be made.
  9. What Are "Legitimate" Qi Abilities/Power?

    No worries, as I understand that with the anonymity of hiding behind the internet does lead to misinformation and suspicion. I know the person who is commenting from Indonesia, with the username of "______indo", is the person you mentioned with an IP address from Indonesia. There are other Mopai students (Chinese Indonesians) who contribute posts in this forum. We are Mopai students, who originated from Indonesia, but take residence outside of Indonesia. How do we prove ourselves as Mopai students! Well, this is a good question. The only thing I can say for myself is the intimate information I have in regards to Mopai. Only those with real knowledge of Mopai will know if what I am saying is right or wrong. Truthfully, we know each other's username, and if I am providing false information, or pretending to be a Mopai student, you can bet other Mopai students will tell you so. The real reason why I come to this forum is to dispute blatantly false information that can harm someone's well-being (when it is Mopai's technique related), or to defend our school's honor and good name. I understand many people do not appreciate some of our school's history , techniques, or policies. As at various times, people do argue vehemently about these. I try to, if I can, provide the correct information. You can still not believe me and I appreciate that, however, I have not benefitted from my posts, nor have I tried to sell anyone Mopai's techniques. Actually, I have tried not to post too much or meddle in arguments. However, if I see anyone besmirching Mopai's or John Chang's reputation, as a student, it is my duty to confront him/her. I don't think this is unusual or encouraging a "battle of egos".
  10. What Are "Legitimate" Qi Abilities/Power?

    Yes, you are free to your opinion, but, if your opinion is about an actual system/school/teaching and your intent is to judge/bad mouth/criticize it, you better have good and authentic knowledge of it. Your argument, with the intent to discredit and criticize our school/system/teaching is very flawed and ignorant. It goes to show the kind of person you are. There is no Mopai website that is created to be the official Mopai website, permitted by the master of the lineage. There was a website pretending to be the "official" Mopai website, but, the school has dispute it and it was then shut down. If there are more websites popping out pretending to be the official site, please be very careful and do not trust its information. The 72 levels of Mopai are actually not as people understand it to be. This is actually a misunderstanding people have of Mopai and its teachings. Mopai is not from Wudang nor is it associated with Wudang. John Chang mentioned Zhang San Feng not as its ancestor. If it was perceived so, it was a misunderstanding. As to the Mopai technique, it does not and never promote semen retention. It was referring to the practitioner having to take a break from the meditation after having sex. You do not have any knowledge of Mopai's teachings and techniques, so I suggest be humble and do not try to act all knowing. So once again, please refrain from passing judgement on a system or school that you have NO idea of. Instead of doing that, be humble and mind your own practice. If you have any questions on Mopai or its system, you can ask us. If it is allowed, we will try to clear up any misinformation. I suggest courtesy towards other schools and systems. A true honorable person does not get his reputation by spouting out nonsense on a practice/system that he/she is ignorant of. Thank you for understanding.
  11. What Are "Legitimate" Qi Abilities/Power?

    Please do refrain from bad mouthing a system or its master, when you have no real knowledge of the system. It is easy to sit in your room passing judgement. What John Chang demonstrated was supposed to be for research and to let people know the potential of human beings, not to tease and fill people with delusions and fantasy. He has never gain monetary benefits from this exposure, nor did he want all this publication. Most of what is said in forums are by people who do not belong to Mo Pai. That is why we, Mopai students, asked for our system/school to be left alone. Discussions should be civil and polite. Nothing can be gained by insults and mockery.
  12. Yin chi number 3

    No, that is not what I meant. I respect More Pie Guy as a person with strong conviction and opinion, however, I feel he needs to stop posting his opinions as having the final authority of Mopai or John Chang. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with his opinions, but feel that unless a person was instructed by the headmaster of the Mopai school or John Chang, one should not say that the opinion posted is the view and teachings of Mopai. To form an opinion that carries the weight of a school is a heavy burden and you have to have the authority from the master of the school. To compare and put down an opinion made by another school, you have to be a level of a master of your system with full knowledge and understanding of your school and its teachings. I understand that the internet is a forum of free exchange of ideas, but, if it is your own ideas, I have no problem with whatever you say. If you attach your opinion to a system or a school, then it is different. Due to the fiasco from Jim and others, John Chang and the current headmaster wish to get away from the "limelight" and to avoid further controversies, they wished to be left alone. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.
  13. Yin chi number 3

    More Pie Guy, I do respect your resilient and unwavering belief, however, I do think you need a better way of communicating them to others. Communicate your opinion with honor and respect would be a better solution for you, in my humble opinion. If you bulldozed other people's beliefs and systems, nothing good would come out of it, regardless if you are right or wrong. The thing that I disagree with the way you communicate is, even when you are right, people get turn off and would most likely try to discredit you. Remember the saying winning the battle, but, losing the war. Another observation I make is that the more you carry on this behavior, the Mopai's reputation gets sullied. This is why I feel I have to write the previous post. I am sure you do not mean to disrespect John Chang or Mopai. Do know this though, since you contribute many opinions in regards to Mopai or John Chang (or anything Neigong related), people form an opinion on Mopai and John Chang through your posts. That is why it is our wish that you do not drag the Mopai and John Chang through your muddy battleground. Remember, if you respect John Chang, you should honor his wishes, which is to leave Mopai and him alone and out of any controversy.
  14. Yin chi number 3

    Please understand that More Pie Guy does not represent Mopai or its views. He was taught by Jim, who was an outdoor student of Mopai. I feel that none of us should be able to have the final authority on what is Yin or what is being taught in a school. I am not worthy or knowledgable enough to represent Mopai or John Chang's views. Unless a student is given authority by the master of a school to represent the school's ideas and views, I feel it is better to keep our opinion to ourselves and maybe learn from others. In my opinion, the Magus of Java was never intended by John Chang to be the bible on everything Neigong related, but, I am not saying that everything in the book is false. As to More Pie Guy's opinion to Jim's accomplishments (compared to the indoor Indonesian students), I would say it is good to have a high opinion on your teacher, but do not do that while belittling others' accomplishments. This put you and Jim in a bad light because your ignorance shows your arrogance. Instead of arguing and promoting your views, More Pie Guy, it would be better use of your time to further your practice. I humbly hope that if you insist on continuing your arguments, please avoid using Mopai's name or John Chang's. Remember Jim's conversation with John Chang was mostly done through an interpreter, a non-professional interpreter at that.
  15. Inner Peace and Nei Kung

    I do second Neikung's statement which "Shifu Lin" can't be a high level Mopai student. If by a minuscule chance that he is, Shifu Lin or you have no right to create the "official" website as you have no permission from John Chang or the current headmaster. If you want to create a website to defraud unsuspecting innocents with your books and training methods, well, that is up to you and your karma. However, do not name it the official Mopai website and leave out any association with Mopai. That is downright insulting and offensive to John Chang and everybody in Mopai. I take it that you wish to be non-confrontational and believe in "peace and love". However, by continuing your actions and the existence of the website, they contradict those belief. If these continue, I guess it's crystal clear to everybody what kind of people you and "Shifu Lin" are.
  16. Thank you everyone for trying to understand the underlying problem to this solution. I do truly think that what Truth Seeker, Formless Tao, and others say is very close to the truth. I do appreciate the attempts you guys had laid out to explain the differences between the Eastern and Western concepts and lifestyles because I agree that we all have things to learn from each other and not judge too harshly and quickly. In regards to the being of light, I believe it to be true. In terms of where he resides, that would be anyone's guess because nobody have met him, besides the brief encounter John and his wife had. As to John Chang's ability to sense the masters who are of higher levels, I believe that he did sensed them while he was meditating in the mountain. However, sensing is not the same as knowing specifically where they are. I hope my answers give you hope. As to whether these masters will be known to you, I think that will be up to their karma and yours. Please do respect John Chang and Mopai's wish, which is to leave us peacefully. Peace to you all.
  17. The reason why I said the above statement is because many Westerners come to Indonesia, spent a great deal of money and time, hoping to be accepted by Mopai. After many months, they went back home empty handed. I was just cautioning you guys what will happened if you were to do just that. That is all.
  18. I tend to agree with Truth Seeker on how the differences in culture and prespectives has produced such misunderstandings and resentments. You are quite accurate, in my opinion, on the reactions of Jim and how John Chang handled the situation. I appreciate your post, Truth Seeker.
  19. There never is a rule in Mopai that prohibit more than 1 student to be at lvl 3 or higher. The current headmaster has certainly passed lvl 3. Well, sir, how can you say that none of Jim nor his students are arrogant, when Jim, in this forum and his book, and the student above accussed the Mopai students of being jealous of them? Jim, himself, claimed that the rest of the Mopai students are lazy and at the state of stagnation in their progress. That for me is a show of arrogance. I don't find Jim and his students a threat at all. I, like most students that belonged to a school, take offense when our school and its students are being insulted. I just want to let them know the state of Mopai currently.
  20. I really don't understand the arrogance of Jim and some of his students who claimed that the Mopai students are jealous of Jim's "rapid" progress and accomplishments. There are many Mopai students who have attained the same level or higher than Jim, in a much shorter period of time. You might argue the distance and time might be a factor, and I say BS. Other Mopai students who lived outside Indonesia have progressed at much faster rate than Jim. The only reason you don't know of them is that they are humble human beings, unlike the arrogant few whom I have mentioned. Please don't put yourself up high on the pedestal, get over yourselves. Furthermore, there have been more students who have passed to lvls that are higher than Jim than ever before. Thus, to say that the current pool of Mopai students are lazy and jealous of Jim is ridiculous. Currently, there are many students who are in their 20s and 30s who are at the lvl of where Jim is at. In short, Mopai is thriving. In your statement in regards to accusation that Mopai is racist, we have explained many times, so I shall not bother. As to your statement of dissent, look to Jim on that point. He has spewed out bitterness, anger, vehemence to create dissent, but it did not work. It kind of backfired actually. Mopai students are more united than ever before. By the way, John Chang is one of the nicest person that you will ever meet. This situation with Jim, has not placed you guys (Jim's students) at any advantage at all, to be frank, it's the opposite. Your suggestion for Jim's students being accepted by Mopai to bring honor back is, sorry to say, slim to none (this opinion is not only mine by the way). The only honor lost here is Jim's. In actuality, Mopai has regained its honor by John Chang's and Mopai students' dedication and commitment to its rules and oath, and throwing out the bad eggs, like Jim.
  21. I don't know where you got that information. Liao Shifu was alive when John Chang passed lvl 2b and progressed to other levels. Liao Shifu passed away before John Chang had fused his dantien, but by then, he was advanced enough to progress without supervision.
  22. Students of Jim, please read what thunderindo wrote and take heed. There was one student who came to Indonesia to meet John Chang and headmaster for further instruction, he was turned down on both occassion. Please do not waste your time and money thinking that you would be the special someone whom the school will make an exception and will give you further instruction and training. The signs Jim are talking about is not the signs that signal your completion of level 1. There are a number of students who thought their dantiens are full and progressed to the next level of training without confirmation and supervision. The outcome is that their health suffered and their dantien are affected. The Mopai system is not to be taken lightly. My suggestion and recommendation, sorry to say, is to drop the training. There is no way you can continue this path and your unsupervised training is hazardous to your health. I know that most of you will not listen to me, but I have to at least put this out there, and hope some will take heed. As to Micah/Lin, once again no one in Mopai and, especially, John Chang has ever spoken to or meet him/them. Hopefully people will not get suckered in to his scam.
  23. Puretruth, what do you think of Jim's reaction and behavior towards John Chang? What do you think about Jim bad mouthing John Chang and his ancestral masters? It's so easy to ask for forgiveness when Jim, himself, does not show any remorse. After all this, do you think anyone, in John Chang's shoes, will want to be friends with Jim? Compassion? Why would John Chang or Mopai show any compassion if Jim still insists on his bad behavior?
  24. In regards to your reply to Neikung, where you mentioned that John Chang "had no "Indonesian" students worthy of taking over the school", you must have misunderstood his statement. In the 1980s, the ancestral masters have already decided who would take over the school after John Chang, which was the current headmaster. To your statement that two students who lived in John Chang's home had betrayed him is utterly ridiculous. I know those two students you are talking about, and they did not betray him. You did not understand their situation. The fact is those two students were not "groomed" to take over the school. They lived with John Chang because he gave them a place to stay and worked for him. They left was not because they betrayed him, but one found a wife and lived with her, whereas the other went back to his hometown for personal reasons. Both maintained good relationship with John Chang. One did open his own school, but it wasn't because he betrayed John. Before learning the Mopai Neikung, that student was a Wushu master, and after he left, he resumed teaching Wushu as a means to make a living. He was still a Mopai student and continued his necking training. For you to criticize John Chang's belief as a Christian is ridiculous. Isn't a man's relationship with God his own? How could you judge his belief? Don't you know in the bible it is stated that you should not judge other for you will be judged. His communication with God and his ancestral masters are not for you to judge for you are not God. John Chang prays to God and he even prayed for others and with others. Even in the bible, it is acknowledged that there is a "spirit" realm that are not composed of demons and devils. As to John Chang's family members' belief and their communication to you should be private, and you are a petty person for even bringing it out. Do you ever honor people's beliefs and private lives? As to your claim of knowing what God wants us to do shows your arrogance and how close minded you are. You are not open to other beliefs, and cultures. Your incessant calling of the ancestral masters as demons really make you out to be ignorant and full of bitterness. You are a hypocrite for calling John Chang as not a real Christian. How about you? You knew all these before and yet you still learn from him. What does that make you as a Christian? As to John Chang's knowledge of 10 masters who are at his level or higher is covered in the Magus of Java. He knew of them through his meditation in the mountains, but he did not know them personally. For you to expect him to help you find a new teacher is preposterous. Many other Western students found their new teachers themselves, and what give you the rights to demand such a request. Your dedication of 13 years in the Mopai system is nothing compared to the other students. It's laughable for you to even try to use that as an excuse. Reading your correspondence in this forum really shows me what kind of a person you are. You are unappreciative brat who is arrogant, ignorant and mostly live a bitter life. Everybody is sorry that you are currently very sick, even John Chang. Hopefully you get better, but if you don't, try to live the rest of your life in peace. When you die, try to die in peace and dignity.
  25. Jim, do not think at any moment that you can come to a public forum and smear John Chang's good name. You want to air out your grievances, you had your chance many times when you visited John at his home. You still can't accept the fact that the school is closed to you and still tries to defend your position for all the wrong actions you've made. Do not think at any moment that you are the only one who is privy to John Chang and your situation. Your rebellious actions have warranted Mopai's ancestors' warning and closing of the Mopai system to Westerners. Yes, you are very similar to Verdesi and Micah/Lin. In fact you are worse than them. You do charge for your "lessons" in the Mopai system. It doesn't matter whether it's in the hundreds of dollars or thousands, but the fact is you've profited financially from your teachings. Your reason for you to do it is to protect the training is ridiculous and laughable. You want to really protect the training, then DON"T TEACH. At least with Verdesi and Micah/Lin, they don't bad mouth John Chang and call his ancestors demons. You called John Chang a coward for not telling you he can't teach you to his face and had another person to give you the bad news. Get over yourself. Do you think you are important to Mopai and its success? What arrogance! Have you ever thought for a moment that John Chang's insufficient grasp of the English language is the reason why he asked someone else to explain why he can't teach you anymore. I know for a fact that many time in your conversation with John Chang, someone was present to interpret for you and John Chang. In fact I was one of them. What dedication have you given to John Chang? All you did was dedicate your time and effort for yourself. The money and time you spent is not for John Chang, but to further your training and progress. So don't spout BS about your dedication to John Chang. Do you know why John Chang wouldn't talk to you for many years? It's because you can't accept the fact that he can't teach you anymore and you were still trying to make an argument that he should by saying that 1/16 of you is Asian/Chinese, or something stupid like that. Don't you know we have read all your letters to John Chang and know exactly what you said in them. Yes, you went to his family weddings, ate at his home and John Chang is generous like that. But, it wasn't only you who John Chang invited. Many other "Western" students got invited too. You are not special at all, nor was your relationship with him unique. John Chang is a generous person and his generosity was and is extended to other people and Westerners, besides yourself. You have the right to be angry, for no one can force you how you should feel. In fact we understand your frustration when the school is closed to you. But, this doesn't give you the right to be angry at John Chang by calling him names. John Chang, like many other masters of any school or system, is bound by rules and regulations set by the ancestral masters. The reason John Chang taught you and the other Western students was that he thought that times have changed and wanted to bring out to the world and other cultures the knowledge that he had. He wanted to share his knowledge to the world, but he was reminded of his oath and he has to acknowledge that. Many a time John Chang has regretted that action, and acknowledged that his ancestral masters had better understanding than he did. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are not 3rd lvl student. John Chang has many times told us that. You might be close to passing lvl 2a, but you were never acknowledged or given the lvl 3 instructions. John Chang has never given you the lvl 3 training method. You might misunderstood the instructions for lvl 2a and mistaken it for lvl 3.