tongkosong

I apologize for what I am about to say next. Who are you to make demands or requests? In regards to Jim and Mopai, this has nothing to do with you or anyone else in this forum. As to the 20 years that Jim spent trying to learn from John Chang, this is Jim's own free will. No one forced him to learn from John Chang. I really start to think that all these misunderstandings are due to the difference in culture. With the Chinese mindset, we never make demands on our masters. We count ourselves lucky just to be able to learn from John Chang. Jim's time and dedication is rewarded with the Qi he has attained through John Chang's instructions. I really don't get the Western mindset where the student can demand his training to be more than what the teacher is willing to teach. The master does not owe the student anything. It's the other way round. We also believe in fate/destiny/karma. There are other Westerners, who I do feel sorry for, who couldn't continue learning from John Chang. None of them had such a big breakdown, resentment, and outburst as Jim did. Jim's rebellious actions and insults towards the ancestors are totally uncalled for and is the ultimate sin as a student. In my opinion, what Jim is suffering right now, might be his karma. It is not my delight or anyone's to see him in this situation. As to Jim being healed, that is also his karma.

Again, I don't know who you got your information from. Only John Chang can tell you if you have passed lvl 1. If you dispute this, well, all I can say is that once again I would believe John Chang more than whoever your teacher is. Just want to inform or warn you, if you have not completely passed lvl 1 and proceed to lvl 2 (especially not the correct lvl 2), you are truly risking your health and well-being. Even if a student has progressed to lvl 2, there's still a real chance of hurting himself if he practiced without proper guidance and "check ups". Students from all over have come to see John Chang and current headmaster to check their progress. This Mopai system is not to be trifled with, or taken lightly when you are learning it. The risks are real and has proven to be so. Please take care and don't take the risks lightly. Puretruth, I wouldn't want to pretend to know what Ieifa is, so I can't help you there. In regards to condensing the chi, it is done, but not at lvl 4. The thing that John Chang always emphasize is, never try the higher lvl of exercises or meditation that you are not at because it will cause harm to the practitioner. That's why I can't help you with lvl 4 H.riahr, I honor your opinions on John Chang as that is your business. Yes, John Chang knows that a number of Mopai students are in this forum to correspond with you guys. It is his wish to dispel any misinformation and discourage unproper and unsuperviced practices.

Once again you've shown your ignorance to the Mopai system. All students of Mopai knows that the video in which Jim was shown is not a test to see if he passed lvl 2B. The video is recording John Chang is testing Jim's progress in lvl 2a. I've said this before and I will say it again. According to John Chang, Jim did not pass lvl 2a. For you to say otherwise, well, I tend to believe John Chang more than Jim. This is also supported by Jim's instruction to his students on lvl 2a. The standing exercise is not a lvl 2a, but just a Qi Gong exercise. The first lvl instruction he has is quite close to the Mopai instruction to the first lvl meditation, but Jim has added a few things in it himself. To say that Jim has passed lvl 2b is ridiculous, unless by some magical wishful thinking, Jim has attained teachings from heaven that allow him to conjure up the instructions for it. As to meditating for lvl 1, the 81 hours is not the total amount of time you need to meditate to pass lvl 1. To say that shows me again your ignorance. As to Mopai's rule to forbid teachings to "westerners", all I know is that is the oath John Chang and the rest of the students took. Maybe it's the difference in culture and belief, but for us, oaths are very important and breaking that rule is something that is unthinkable regardless of our thoughts of it. We are not bigoted or discriminate against Westerners. In fact many Westerners have come to John Chang's home and we have good relationships with them.

Your questions show me that you have little or false knowledge of Mopai. Do you guys ever get it in your head that the rule to disallow any teachings to Westerners does not come from any individual's resentment towards the "westerners", but it came from the ancestors of the lineage. In regards to the level 72 book of Mopai, I'm afraid to tell you that you have been misinformed or someone is trying to pull a fast one on you. Furthermore, who told you all this nonsense on how long it takes for the ancestors to reach certain levels...it's just downright pure crap. In regards to asking Thunderindo (who is a true Mopai student in Indonesia) to correct Jim's instructions, is again (sorry to say) silly. Anyone from Mopai is not allowed to teach Westerners, so how can Thunderindo be able to correct Jim's instruction because he would be going against the rule. Whatever information that are passed down from someone who is neither John Chang himself, or a recognized student of Mopai (Jim excluded), you really have to be careful. All I can say is that the lvl 2 of Jim's Mopai instruction is not the real lvl 2 from Mopai, so do be careful about it. The students of Mopai are online in these forums to dispel any misinformation and false teaching. We are not here to teach as we're not allowed to even if we wanted to. It is our wish that nobody gets hurt from learning from the incorrect instruction.

I find it quite ridiculous to see many people claiming to be students of Mopai. The only people who can claim themselves being students of Mopai are those who have been taught by John Chang or the current headmaster of Mopai. For those of you who learned from Jim or Shifu Lin, I'm sorry to say that the real Mopai school, John Chang, or headmaster, do not consider you students at all. In actuality, only those who have passed lvl 2 are officially considered as true students of Mopai. Since none of you have been tested by John Chang himself (who can really tell if you passed lvl 1), you have no right of calling yourself Mopai students. You may disillusion yourself to being able to "feel" that you have passed lvl 1, but know that it will come with great risks. Yes, you "stole" knowledge (I do consider it stealing as Jim do not have the credibility or permission to teach) from "the great Jim" who is kicked out and disregarded, but even from the lvl 1 instruction I saw, your knowledge is flawed. As to Shifu Lin, even John Chang or the headmaster has no knowledge of who Shifu Lin is, and does not consider him as a student of Mopai. His audacity to establish the "official" Mopai website is insulting and downright fraudulent. I hope you guys do yourself a favor. Do consider John Chang's and Mopai's wishes. Please seek out other schools as Mopai is closed to "Westerners". Learning flawed and incomplete teachings from a person with no credibility to teach is dangerous.

GrandmasterP, you have made several misconceptions in your statements above. First of all, John Chang is not a working medium. He does not get paid for contacting the spirits. John Chang's Neigong allows him the ability to communicate with spirits. This is not through tricks nor spells, just through the suppression of Yang Chi. John Chang does not have any spirit guides or any spirits that has ceased from working with him. Jim's reactions and misgivings in regards to these spirits is due to his ignorance and, maybe, his Christian background. In regards to the factions of Mopai, as you have stated, is not accurate. There are no factions of Mopai, just a few disgruntled and unloyal Western students, who could not accept the closing of the system to them. They decided to disobey Mopai's policy and take upon themselves "unofficial" students. These "students" are not recognized as the true students of Mopai, as there are other requirements, aside from being Chinese, to be recognized as the true Mopai students. Mopai is not a "spiritualistic sect". The spirits do not govern Mopai, but, it is the students who respects the wishes and oathes they had with the masters when they were still living. I hope this clears up the confusions you have regarding Mopai.

What is given freely, should be freely given, with permission, of course. If not, that's stealing. Well, I guess that's karma.

I am not mad that "lvl 1" meditation method is out, even though it contains many mistakes and Jim's own additional instructions. More power to you, I guess. The only reason I am commenting is to warn people from thinking that it is the real lvl1 meditation method, and is safe to try it without a real teacher guiding you. So it is truly up to you, as you are responsible for your own well-being. As to the claim that the video of John Chang explaining the difference between lvl 1 and the standing exercise, I am more confident that it is not lvl 3 method, as a true student of Mopai, especially a 3rd lvl student, would know the difference without being told. Furthermore, lvl3 method is so different from those of lvl 1 and the standing exercise. It's like trying to explain to a first grader on the lessons you will learn in college. Well, anyways good luck. I just hope that you would attain what you wish and not try to steal the teachings of another school through Jim, especially when Jim is giving you false information. That is what it is, stealing, "to take away by force or unjust means; to take surreptitiously or without permission" (Webster definition of stealing).

I did say that Jim is lvl 2. The video above doesn't state that he passed lvl2. It is a test to measure his progress. Anyways, I will not divulge anymore than necessary. It is up to you if you want to learn from Jim. Just know that the instructions he mentioned above contains mistakes and are not the right lvl 2 method from Mopai. I have never seen a footage where John Chang described lvl 3 methods. That would be against his own rule, to put such a secret method in a recording.

Neikung is right. Once again, please do not try to use the meditation method referred above. This is not lvl 1 Mopai breathing method. The Qigong exercise, which Jim insists on "claiming" as the lvl2 method, is truly not the real lvl2 method. It's just a Qigong exercise. This also proves that Jim is not a 3rd level student, as he proudly proclaim. I know that he wants to sell himself as the high authority on Mopai, "being the 3rd level Mopai student", but he should never lie about his level. Jim is level 2 student, same as a number of other "Western" students of Mopai. When a real student of Mopai asked Jim why he did that, Jim said he did it to make a living. He also assured the student that Jim will not give out the real meditation method, but added his own breathing method. I would for once agree with Jim on that, but when Jim is selling his breathing exercises under the Mopai name, I feel I should refute it. Here's the thing. If anyone does the breathing exercises and, without any proper guidance from a "real" teacher, somehow injures himself, then, this will give a bad name and karma to Mopai and John Chang. If Jim is selling his own brand of breathing method, not using the name Mopai, then, I have absolutely no problem with that. Healingtouch is right. Jim is not sitting in a lotus position, neither half nor full. If a guy can't even sit in a full lotus position, which is recommended in Mopai, how can he proclaim himself as a teacher of Mopai. He is making himself to be a fool. Saying that not being able to sit in full lotus "does not matter in the slightest", well, this will tell you how "good" a teacher Jim is. Well, if the teacher (Jim) can't sit full lotus, then, it does makes sense not to emphasize it, since it will give the "good teacher" a "bad face". Please, do not use this method to practice. Jim gave out many bad instructions. As Neikung mentioned, there are many mistakes in Jim's instructions. I know that many people longed for guidance in the Mopai method, but, please accept the fact that the school is closed. There are many other good schools out there. Find a real teacher. Don't try learning from an unreliable source. Your health is important.

Well, I guess this is Jim's attempt to be a "credible" authority on Mo Pai, never mind that he's been kicked out of the school, not welcomed at John Chang's residence (they're just too polite to kick him out of the house), hated all the masters of Mo Pai, lied to everyone being lvl 3, and so on and so forth. A guy has to make a living, especially when he is selling his "expert knowledge of the Mo Pai training methods" for $300.

This book should be aptly named: "The Crazy Rantings of a Delusional Whiny Little Girl, who was Given a Great Gift, But Lost Her Marbles When She Didn't Get to be "The One"." Wow, what utter nonsense, lies, and delusions!! Never read a worse book than this. For those who knows John Chang and Mo Pai, what are written in this book are complete lies. No wonder the old masters did not allow the teachings of Mo Pai to be passed down to "Westerners". I can now truly appreciate the "wisdom" of the old masters of Mo Pai for this. Such disrespect to tradition, to his master, and to the teachings of Mo Pai. Jim, don't whine and complain when you don't get your way. Accept things that are out of your control, and be appreciative to what was given to you. ***(had to edit previous post due to my harsh comment, though I feel that the previous comment was more suitable to how I felt, but, I will respect the moderator's wish)***

RFunaki, I sincerely do not think that you are sincere in trying to find the truth. With everything that I have told you, you doubt and insist that I'm not telling the truth (e.g. dantian artifact). Here's the thing, I'm not obsessed with David as I'm going out of my way to do research on him and try to bash him. All the information I've told you is from my own experience. If you insist that I'm lying or using other info from forums or posts, well, I'm not going to waste any time trying to convince you otherwise, since you are not open to other people's experience and truth. You have your own twisted "truth", bias, and conspiracy theories. There's nothing I or others can say to convince you otherwise. As to my connection with John Chang, it's my personal business, and I do not feel compel to explain that to you. Who are you to ask me As to David visiting John Chang, while not being a student, well, this goes to show that you do not know anything about John Chang or David's relationship to him. There are many people who have visited John Chang who are not John Chang's students. You don't have to be his student to visit or know him. By David's visits to John Chang or bringing his students with him, doesn't prove that he is John Chang's student. This convinced me that you're not worth talking to as you do not know what you're talking about. Well, have fun with your conspiracy theories

I really find your motives (RFunaki) to be suspicious: with what is happening discussed in the other topic (about you collecting users' info), your insistence of accusing the number of people of this forum to be one person despite a number of people disputing this claim), and etc. I understand that you are trying to defend David, but your insistence and claims are ridiculous. Let me try to verify that Neikung is not the same person as the others you mentioned by telling you of one of my meeting with David. Ask David to verify my story, and if he verifies it, then you should accept that my claim of Neikung to be true as I am truthful of my meeting with David. When I met David and his wife sometime between 1997 to 1999 (I forgot what year as it wasn't anything worth remembering or remarkable), he claimed to be a professor from Italy (in the field of Anthropology) who was interested in the pyramids found in China. Then he met several masters with remarkable powers (even showed me a picture of an old Chinese man with a long beard), and found his way in Indonesia to meet John Chang. He also showed us a metallic ball bearing that he claimed came from the dantien of one of the masters he met. He mentioned to us that he met several masters who had electric like powers similar to John Chang. He even used the word Lei Shan Dao in relating to the type of school with this kind of powers. It was David and not Neikung who "coined" the words Lei Shan Dao. Even John Chang never heard of Lei Shan Dao. What I think happen is David coined the word Lei Shan Dao to describe or group these schools (of different lineage) who possess the electric like powers. This is all I remember of my first meeting with David. The other visit David made to John Chang was bringing a number of people to meet and experience John Chang and his powers, and charging them a lot of money for it. It was like a tour to see a circus. This is also one the reasons that I found David to be a man of (in my opinion) lesser "value". So that is my memory of meeting David. Ask him if this occurs. If it does, then you can be confident that I am truthful in my claim that Neikung is not the same person as those you mentioned and he is indeed a Mopai student. As to my knowledge of David as a non-practising student, David was never a Mopai student. Even John Chang can verify that. This has nothing to do about Mopai not welcoming any Western students. The term non-practising student is just plain dumb. It's similar to claiming that one is a non-possessing-a-Phd-degree professor. As to David zapping people with his power, please (those who had felt it) describe the kind of "electric jolt" you felt. I have felt John Chang's powers and I know how it feel. I just want to see if it is similar to David's "zap".

I think, in my humble opinion, it is naive for you, RFunaki, to ask other people to reveal their true identity. In a public forum, it would be unwise to do so. Even if Neikung or anyone else would reveal his/her identity, how would you be able to verify that he/she has met David. I, myself, knows who Neikung is and can verify that his story is true that he has met David in Indonesia. Are you going to ask for my identity too? Are you going to verify my connection with Neikung? This is a forum. You can either believe someone's opinion/story or not. Do you think David knows all the people who were with him when he met JChang? I, too, have met David (and his wife) during his visits to Indonesia to see JChang. Sure he is very knowledgeable and have met many masters, but he came across to me like a sly snake oil salesman. As I read more about him through this forum and many others, my opinion of him worsened. The claim of his Phd, his breakthrough in lvl-4-like-Mopai (who made that comparison when none of the Western Mopai students has ever attain lvl 4), the newspaper article about David's sifu Jiang, David's outrageous fees, and even his ex-students' criticism of him certainly confirm my first opinion of David. May I remind you that this is my opinion of David. Are you going to verify my connection with David too? I'm from Indonesia. I have a personal connection with Mopai and JChang. Do you want my passport or my ID card? Even if you do have them, how are you going to verify my connection with David? I think what incited Neikung to post article about Sifu Jiang is his concern of the validity of Sifu Jiang and his ability and indirectly David too. When I read an article in the newspaper, I find that article to be more valid and credible than the opinion of people in the forum. This is a forum of discussion. You can take it or leave it. If more and more people are turning against or criticizing David, then, there must be something wrong with David. If he is honest and truthful, it will be hard to find things to criticize (in David's case, there are many).

For those who do not know the lies David or his students have told, which have been proven to be false, I guess you are new to the Taobums' forum, so please look through the many discussions in this forum about David, Seandenty, John Chang, Wang Liping, Jiang, and all the bulls@it about sucking Chi from bulls. Maybe the reason those sessions are so costly is because the bulls used are wagyu cows...or commonly known for Kobe beef. I guess many people do not believe David or his stories is because...I don't know....maybe it's all the lies he told.

I have personally met many Mopai's "western" students (Jim, Andreas, David, Kostas and others). All of them are no longer being taught by John Chang, as the school has been closed. I'm sure everyone felt some kind of disappointment with the closing of Mopai. However, out of them in my knowledge, only Jim has publicly and defiantly opposed Mopai's policy of teaching the techniques to others, and only Jim has ever called Mopai's ancestors and, indirectly John Chang, a clown. I know for a fact that Jim charges money for the techniques. I have an important question to all Jim's students who are learning Mopai's techniques. How will you know if you passed level 1? Only John Chang has the ability to tell if a student has passed level 1. I don't know if Jim told you, but you have to go through a specific test, which only John Chang can do, to know if you have passed lvl 1. Hopefully you guys aren't too obstinate and still go through, knowing the danger and not being able to pass to the next lvl. I also know Thunderindo personally and he is a Mopai student. He speaks the truth that Jim never had John Chang's permission to teach to others.

Just out of curiosity...are you a student of Jim? Paid $300 for those Mopai lessons, didn't you

Hmm...this is very interesting. Jim, proclaiming himself to be a Mopai student, going against the Mopai's policy; putting himself as the "humble" teacher; without the permission of John Chang, opening Mopai methods to everyone who wants to learn knowing full well the danger of unsupervised practice...Jim, do you consider yourself a modern robin hood? robbing the mopai methods and distributing to the hungry masses. You even call your shifu a clown. Well, considering you're teaching those methods to everyone using emails and phonecalls. The great thing is you won't even be responsible for your "students" harming themselves. Maybe you are just vindictive. taking revenge on Mopai and John Chang because John CHang won't teach you anymore. Wow....how despicable your actions are, as a student and a "teacher". So, you let the Mopai method out to everyone without John CHang's permission, knowing that even the Mopai ancestors prohibit such actions.

Hi!!! Just want to say that I enjoy this forum very much and would love to participate. Hopefully I can learn and make friends.

"I'm sorry I mentioned it because it is probably a private matter between David and Sifu Chang. I do believe David. I don't think anyone is suggesting that David is still studying Mo Pai. Just that John Chang and David have a friendship and John would be there to encourage David in his training. " ---------------------------- If you or David thinks that John Chang will be going to China to assist David in leveling up, then I can say for a fact that you guys are delusional. It doesn't make sense for a teacher to go out of his way to assist someone who is not a student (or a non-practicing one) to further a training that John Chang doesn't even belong to. "Perhaps the main complaint from people who have associated themselves with the Mo Pai, such as yourself (although I would have trouble believing that you are even nominally associated with Mo Pai), is that I have used the 'Mo Pai' brand to advertise David. All I'm doing is pointing this out and really; before this thread, I had stopped posting about David completly. But when I see people attacking David and playing silly games, I feel obligated to set the record straight. If people are upset about that, that's their problem and it doesn't change the simple facts of the situation." ----------------------------- Yes...you got this right. A lot of people in Mo Pai resent the fact that David and you using John Chang's name. If you stop using John Chang's name and associating David to John Chang then, maybe we'll not be upset with you Like yourself, I feel obligated to set the record straight and stop you from saying false things about John Chang and his relationship with David. It's not about David achieving level 4 and us being jealous about it. It's just that you have come to the forum, not only this one (wherever there's a mention of John Chang), and try to "sell" David.

I read from other posts that John Chang got angry with David for charging people money for associating David's teachings to John Chang's, and "giving tours to meet John Chang", while charging an arm and a leg. Even now, many Mo Pai students say that John Chang does not want any associations with David. Well, of course, Sean can refute that, knowing his loyalty to David. And of course David will say that he is still in good relation with John Chang because he will lose one of his "credible" teachers tin order o sell his teachings if he admitted to it.

Well, I know many Mo Pai students and they say that David is not a student. He's just someone who came and visited John Chang. He didn't even practice lvl 1 of the Mo Pai's meditation. It's easy to say that "many Mo Pai students have talked openly about the time they waited to be taught, gifts they gave and sacrifices they made," without any real intimate knowledge of John Chang and Mo Pai. I understand about the time they waited to be taught and the sacrifices they made, but gifts to John Chang?? How would you know that? Everybody in this forum could easily say that they are Mo Pai students because they do not have to prove it. With little knowledge gotten from previous postings, and they act as if they are real students. I have followed these discussions for quite a while, and never had I read that John Chang received gifts such as cars from his students.