soaring crane

can you post the chart? Are you generally fearful? You don't seem the type, from what I gather about you.

ahh, well, I hadn't actually clicked any links. What I know about Wang Bi I know from my Richard John Lynn translation of his Yijing commentaries, and probably from the occassional wiki article or whatnot. Court intelligensia of his era were all Confucian, it was pretty much prerequisite to the court postings. And Wang Bi, as I understand it, didn't hold Master Lao in terribly high esteem. Not when compared to Confucius, anyway. As a Confucian, Wang Bi would be a very strict dualist. A place for everything and everything in its place, that kind of paradigm. The father is Yang and the family is Yin, the same applying to Heaven and Earth, the Ruler and his Subjects, no exceptions and no chance to change positions. Not unlike our departed friend "TaoMaster", in fact. WB was a prodigy, the Mozart of the academics, and like Mozart, he was born into that life. His father held some kind of post in the government. But WB was removed from office, tossed out by the competition (were they jealous?) and died of an infection a year later. Where he would have headed with his huge intellect, nobody can say. His writings were very influential in the "neo Daoist" movement, but the Laozi wasn't his main focus or interest. That would be the Yijing. He probably only commented on the DDJ because it was a standard work of the time which everyone of his station was required to learn and debate. I'll read the bio in my book and see if I find any interesting nuggets :-)

I don't quite follow your reasoning here, Apech. Wang Bi (a strict Confucianist, I believe) had a tremendous influence on the modern interpretation of "Daoist thought". It wasn't the Daosim itself that so easily assimilated Buddhist spirituality but the direct effect Wang's philosophy and teachings that created the bridge between the two. He put the round DDJ peg onto the square Buddhist hole (or vice-versa). I think the history of Daoism can be legitimately be divided to pre- and post- Wang Bi. But I guess you're right that there must have been something afoot in China that made the assimilation possible, with or without Wang Bi.

I think the Lululemon prices are obscene, the brand pretentious, and I couldn't for the life of me wear that kind of thing for Qigong, or for running. I have an assortment of Indian Kurtas and linen/cotton bottoms, nice and loose and long-lived, and not expensive. I have some bottoms from H&M, organic, real linen, that I bought in size XXL. They have a draw string so I can tie them to my waist according to the season, lol. What I'd like to do is have a friend of mine weave the material for a top and botttom, but even with a discount the material alone would come to about €150. She uses an organic Swedish linen and silk mix which is gorgeous and the kind of material that you pass down to your children, and your children's children.

Ouch. I checked out Lululemon, just out of curiosity

Hello Wujishi, and welcome to the forums! Glad you found your way to us :-) Please take the time to read the two posts pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum terms and rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started. For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day. Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you, SC and the TTB team

That reflects my thoughts in my first post where I said I like mud between my toes and will day be mud between someone else's toes :-)

I'm hoping he's just trolling the chest thumpers.

And the Idiocracy this time will be of trans-Atlantic proportions...

The Mark Cohen book does look interesting, I've considered buying myself. But, in fact, I would recommend this as the best book on ZZ I've ever seen: http://www.standingdynamics.com/literatuur/page1.html It doesn't go into the martial aspects of ZZ at all, but it illustrates the foundations of the practice with a kind of elegant thoroughness, and attention to detail that is truly rare in qgong books. I can't think of a single book I own or have seen that is structured the way this one is. I had a chance to show it to Lam Kam Chuen and he was more than impresed with it (I think he was maybe a little envious, psst). Peter den Dekker has been a direct student of Kam's for over twenty years. I should mention that our own Bubbles first pointed the book out to me, and I remain grateful to him for the tip :-)

no, no, not alll, I was dismissive. I was pressed for time and just kind of wrote a placeholder text for later. I tend to do that, lol. And then I often neglect to return to my earlier comment, and come off as, I dunno, rude or something.

No argument from me, I know the models. I like it What I meant with "before" was that the potential for change exists already in the Wuji. That potential is the Wuxing. The standard way to explain it is that, for example, in the creation cycle, after Yang achieves its apex (Fire) it begins to sink and this sinking brings forth Metal. As it continues to sink, it eventually bottoms out, and this settling down brings forth water. Then it has nowhere else to go but up, and this rising is called Wood. Then it reaches its apex again, and that gestates Fire... But the potential states of existence aka the 5E are already there. If there were no potential for motion, there'd be no motion, and it's their relationship to one another that sets it all in motion. And they all have a special relationship to the others. The Yin and Yang are revealed in the relationships between the states/potentials/elements. Yang Fire/Yin Fire, depending on the situation/relationship being oobserved, etc. A purely yin/yang model results in stasis, Wuji, because there's no impetus for them to interact. And then they, and everything else, cease to "exist". And even if yin and yang could become dynamic without the wuxing, which they can't, it would be a linear back and forth. That's why I wrote it in shorthand as "wuxing comes before yin/yang". edit: just want to add that it's the yin/yang dynamic that then reveals the wuxing potentialities, and that's what the standard diagram is showing. Without the wuxing, a tree would be a tree trunk, with no limbs, no branches, no leaves, no buds, no bees, no birds .... Kinda dull. And that's why I wrote "that would be this" as a response to your statement that yin yang represents everything. It does, of course, but it's not the full picture. Or, well, yes, there's plenty of room for many, many perspectives, this is just mine. Hope that makes sense :-) Anyway, to bring it full circle, I like this kind of Daoism, because it's concerned with the nature of that which is alive, now. And I want to live, now. And I want to realise the full potential of what I am, now. The only thing I strive to become is more of what I already am. Buddhist discussions, in my view of them, inevitably lead toward a kind of disatisfaction with what we have at hand, and a longing for a greener pasture. I know there are many, many schools of Buddhism and when taken as a whole, they encompass pretty much everything. But the simplicity and the logic, the pragmatism, of the Daoist model attracted me early on and I'm happy with it :-)

Woot!

but the Wuxing/5E comes before the Taiji, believe it or not. First are the five states, and then they dynamically generate the yin/yang thoruhg their interaction (not the best word for but I have to go...)

that would be this

excuse me?

The Golden Flower is Quanzhen, and thus heavily influenced by Buddhist spiritualism.

Isn't life on Earth the result of the interaction between fire and water, animated by the pull of the moon? Remove any one of the three from the formula and the whole process would come to a halt. I think. And as I understand it, first there was the sun, then came the moon, and then the water.

Do you?

modern browsers just fill in the rest based on your history. I type "th" and Firefox fills it in with thetaobums.com I type "c" and FF completes it with cracked.com lol Then I just hit Enter. Done. Quicker than bookmarks

Hello 5inchgravity, and welcome to the forums! Glad you found your way to us :-) Please take the time to read the two posts pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum terms and rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started. For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day. Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you, SC and the TTB team

Hello seekingbuddha, and welcome to the forums! Glad you found your way to us :-) Please take the time to read the two posts pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum terms and rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started. For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day. Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you, SC and the TTB team

Try scroogle lol update: whoopsie, maybe not

I like it when mud squishes between my toes. And then someday I'm gonna be the mud squishing between someone else's toes. I hope they like it, too.

Why would someone use Google to come to this site? I don't get it. Ever hear of bookmarks? I use Google as little as possible, but the maps are indispensable these days. Don't use Chrome.