wudangquan

Joe,

 

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing . . .

 

For conditioning - I think you are right.

 

If you're doing your sitting meditation temporarily in half lotus, until you can do the full lotus, I feel like it's better to only do left over right for a male because you want to increase yin. Same with some of the static hand positions.

 

I could totally be wrong, but that's just my own understanding at the moment and what I was taught before I was able to fold both of them.

 

Actually I haven't thought about it for some time, and haven't done half lotus for some years really, but maybe will run through it a couple of times since it's an interesting question if I ever decide to teach sometime.

I understand you dont want to go into it, wdq. I missed what you said first time round... and lately am all out for finding some clarity and substance to people's allusions, is all. No biggie.

 

xxx

cat

 

Hi Cat,

 

I don't mean offense to any individuals who are also interested in cultivation, and I am not interested in witch hunting this guy or his system because:

 

A. It's not my problem

B. I am not at a high enough level of attainment myself to really do this or that about any of it. It's not like I'm going to call him out in a cave and dissolve his lower body.

C. It's not worth it and doesn't have much to do with my own cultivation (which is where I try to focus. . . If some people read between the lines and understand what I really believe about cultivation they may understand that it's not a lack of compassion, but it's a matter of prioritizing what and to whom I can be responsible for)

 

Basically I have a certain belief about this and now and then I feel some compulsion (which kb practitioners can comfortably assume is the reaction of my own ego - which is fine) to say something about it, but the truth is it's neither my business, my problem or my responsibility.

 

While I do believe what I believe, there is an issue of enlightenment quality.

 

Mine is low, or the followers of this is low, or we're all swimming in a sea of stupidity.

 

Regardless - it's not something I want to get into a protracted argument about, because the beliefs on both sides are (or will appear to be) subjective at the moment.

 

Time will tell and in the meantime I want to remain civil with everybody and have good discussions about cultivation which lead me to new realizations and help me clarify my own direction. Not waste energy on something that is basically pointless.

I don't have any suggestions other than slow conditioning . . .

 

Work on half lotus (left over right) for as long as you can tolerate it.

 

When you're sitting at home or at your office, try to condition your legs.

 

The funny thing is that once you do it, you may realize that you could have done it all along.

 

My personal experience (and not my professional opinion as a non-accredited nobody) is that you can meditate in any posture, but I am better able to clean out my energy channels in full lotus, full lotus set my macro cosmic orbit stronger, and the pain that arises and subsides has a specific function as well ...

 

.02

Yeah, your way out there man... I hardly ever use skype.

 

But I still enjoy your work and your posts so please keep'em coming

 

So much for my highly developed psychic abilities . . . haha

SZ,

 

I can't find the other thread, but I just want to confirm you're who I think you are . . .

 

Did VG call you on skype thinking it was me and have some conversation with you?

 

If I'm totally out in left field on this one . . . apologies.

 

If you're who I think - you should really check out Bi Laoshi if you don't know him. the SF pai people kind of clown on him, but he is really, really a great person.

 

I will be happy to make this material available for people and I will be happy if people can actually follow the Mozhen/Lao Jun neigong . . .

 

I am not like other people and will not say it's the best or better than this or that, but I can say without any hesititation that it's legit. In many ways, if you watch the movement videos I've posted, or meet Bi Laoshi, he is living proof of that.

 

Anyway I'm happy to provide some of my work to the tao bums.

 

J

I could do it, but the problem is that I don't have a digital copy of the Chinese text.

 

At some point in the future after I have already gotten the full package together I will go back and do inline notes on the Chinese.

 

Much of what he wrote and says defies translation into modern Chinese. Even people familiar with cultivation have a hard time understanding it . . .

 

We had a big problem just today with "san da qi ji" . . . I know what he was saying . . . Talking about firing the 3 dantiens and running the microcosmic orbit, but san da qi ji means something a little bit different . . . More like 3 big qi machines.

 

Also he calls the microcosmic orbit xiao zhong tian (smaller or lesser mid day sun) and macrocosmic orbit da zhong tian.

 

Another problem today was with where the spirit settles in meditation. Since I know what he means, it's ok, but he talks about the Dou Qiao. Qi goes to dantian and spirit goes to Dou Qiao. Most modern qigong people will use the accu point name, instead of Dou Qiao, or say tianmu, or whatever.

 

Mainly the reason I haven't posted the chinese is I would have to retype it since I'm working from paper notes and such.

 

J

Mr. Mak,

 

I didn't describe what I was thinking of doing in full detail because it would cause some trouble for people reading, but . . . It was more a case of getting something dirty (filthy) inside of me - quite right.

 

It was more a case of an attachment I had attracting something nasty and that disgusting thing trying to kill my spirit and get into niwan.

This reminds me of one of my most vivid out of body experiences with cultivation . . .

 

It was years ago, when I was still in America (haven't been back in 9 years).

 

I was sitting in a chair in my apartment, thinking about charging money for something I had been taught for free, and thinking about exploiting that to make - really a lot of money . . .

 

In an instant I was in another dimension. A sort of void, which was all black, except I could see myself.

 

Far off in the distance I saw another point in the void, and it grew larger and larger.

 

As it got closer and closer to me I could see that it was a small rectangular box. Decorated in Cloissone or covered in silk, maybe.

 

Inside were two snakes. One looked like a cobra, and one looked like a copperhead snake.

 

The box floated up to me at chest level, and the two snakes bit me. One on each side of my chest.

 

I suddenly felt the most intense pain I had ever felt grip my entire body through multiple dimensions (of my body).

 

It was so painful that I couldn't bear it. I've experienced serious trauma and physical pain before but this was the worst and most terrible thing I had ever felt.

 

I fell down and crumpled into a fetal position in that void dimension waiting to die . . . .

 

As I felt the poison rushing through me, and permeating layer after layer of my body I suddenly realized what was going on.

 

I had to eliminate that evil thought.

 

I tried, and it didn't work.

 

I found that changing my mind and just "deciding" not to do it was not enough.

 

I had to purge the evil notion from every horizontal layer and every vertical dimension of my body.

 

As I purged one layer, I felt a corresponding improvement.

 

And on and on - literally for hours. Tens of hours or hundreds of hours or thousands of hours.

 

Until finally I had completely eliminated that evil notion.

 

And then I came back to this reality, and was in the same place, at the same moment as when it all began.

 

. . . . . .

 

It's worth mentioning that I have taken a vow to receive immediate retribution in this life (in order to succeed in cultivation in this life) - but . . . Yeah. You can sell a product. You can sell your time if you think it's ok. You can sell this or that, but you should be very careful about selling "cultivation" - however you understand that to be.

Where are you in Wudang?

 

I live across from the big outdoor vege market - base of the mountain -

 

Where are you?

 

Lets meet up........

 

 

I'm in the center of Shiyan, which you probably know is a little bit of a ride away, but in Sunny Garden apartment complex. 45 minutes by car or so and the same on the train.

 

I'm usually around during the begining of the week and can meet you at the museum or something if you like sometime.

 

Are you Jesse? ChinaGiant? I don't know to many of the other laowai in the area because I don't train at any of the wushuguans but would like to meet some more.

 

. . . . . . .

 

For the other things in this thread - I just don't want to get into a fight and neither is it worth a fight. If I haven't said things in a way that's clear enough for people - sorry. I just know that it's pointless, so I said what I think I should say and that's it.

 

I am responsible for the lives that I am responsible for within myself, but I am not responsible for everyone elses choices so I don't want to get into a never ending and pointless debate.

I've underlined some part of your post that disquiets me, wdq....would you explain, if you can, what it is that you think I am cultivating by practising Kunlun?

 

People say it's impolite to answer a question with a question, but I don't mean to be, Cat.

 

I allowed myself to get pulled into some arguments that I shouldn't when I first joined this forum because I was at wudang and didn't have anyone to really have good conversations with in English, but in fact I know that a cultivators speech, behaviour, actions, etc. is a reflection of their cultivation, at whatever level it's at.

 

So I dont want to say much more than I have already clearly said.

 

I think the more appropriate question is whether or not you know for sure what you're cultivating, and what the endgame of that is.

 

I am not a cultivation cop, at any rate. What other people pursue is their business, as is the result.

 

I should only say a few simple things.

Well this is one of the few kunlun related threads I've been in. I know there are a lot of people here into kunlun, but starjumper is the first person (that I've read anyway) that is against it. Like there are other people that are just like, "it's not for me", but star's flat out against it.

 

 

I would also say that I am "against" it in some sense.

 

That sense being that I would rather those I cared about not even cultivate in this life rather than cultivate the things in this system (or let the things in this system cultivate through them).

 

A human life and the opportunity for cultivation is just so precious . . .

 

Saying that, however - I am not interested in arguing about it and wish everyone the best.

 

No one will interfere with what you ask for yourself.

Because nobody who can is going to clean up the mess that is being made.

Man Tak Si,

 

With all due respect . . .

 

Rather than telling people, or trying to condition them that they should give money "because money is the most important thing to you" -

 

I feel you should try to de-condition people from their attachment to money.

 

There is nothing wrong with charging a fee or moneys. When I finish my work on my teachers material - I will charge as well. But it's just because I/he/they should conform with something normal in society and in society people trade money for some type of intangible value.

 

But to intentionally re-enforce peoples attachments is a mistake, I think.

 

Saying the reason is money being the most important thing to someone, and saying it from a position of authority has this effect IMHO.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jonathan

I would like to suggest that maybe people are looking at this from the wrong angle.

 

There is such a situation like "ascending to heaven in broad daylight". Enoch did it. They say Jesus did it with a "glorified" body, and many Taoists have reportedly done it.

 

My personal feeling is that this is not the result of technique - or that technique is not the causality.

 

I would say there is a direct correlation with xinxing.

 

That is to say - you can think of human attachments and sentimentality like anchors. You stay at the human level of consciousness, and your body stays at the human level as well. That is pulling down.

 

The other situation is maybe something like pushing down, or restraining. This can be the result of a body (bodies) full of dark, heavy substance.

 

The situation can be changed by earning and preserving de, which you can tranform to gong through cultivation.

 

So what I mean to say is that by transforming de to gong you lighten your body, and by eliminating attachments you lower the resistance that holds you down.

 

But this gong (not qi) has to be refined to a very very fine level, and it has to be transformed throughout many different dimensions of your body - not only the surface dimension.

 

It's a bit difficult for me to say what I want to say about this because I can easily sound crazy.

 

In short - if you don't want to be restrained by human conditions you have to be better than human.

 

However, even if someone IS able to do these things - they can't do them casually because normal people shouldn't see them, except under some rare and special types of circumstances.

 

Cultivation requires a sort of grim determination in the face of mundaneity. If a person with high attainment status casually shows these types of things in public or on televison - it defeats the purpose of human society.

 

Human society is supposed to be full of blindness, delusions, and so on because it is a furnace in which you can refine iron into steel.

 

Or another way to say it is that human society is the muddy water in which a lotus flower can grow.

 

If you clear away the dirty things and make it pure and clear to everyone - there's no longer a proper environment for cultivating.

He says when he reaches 100 (in about 15 years) he will become a baby. You may get a chance! haha

 

That's his motto I guess you would say. 100 year old baby...

I translated some more video (not the ones on youtube - I haven't put this up yet) today, but I haven't over dubbed it. Here's the transcript:

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

What I just said is Generally about Wudang Lao Jun Yang Sheng Gong

 

Now I'll talk about the details about Wudang Lao Jun Yang Sheng Gong

 

Lao Jun Yang Sheng Gong has a deep and magical power generally

 

The reason why it's deep and magical

 

it has two parts and the first part is meditation

 

The other part is movement

 

At the first part meditation has nine steps

 

And the nine steps are higher and higher and higher

 

The first step is callled the heart language of putting away the mind

 

The second step, what do we do after putting away the mind

 

After you put it away then you relieve the mind

 

And after you put away and relieve it you need to clean it up

 

The trash on the floor, on the wall, and on the ceiling all cleaned up

 

Our mind and brain has to be clean and clear

 

This clean means clean and clear

 

And another step is becoming quiet

 

Cant be so noisy and have the firecrackers and crazy drum noises - It's not good

 

Have to make your mind quiet

 

After it's clean and quiet that was the preparation of meditation

 

With silence in so we can do the meditation

 

The first step of making silence inside and opening up for meditation is to save or hold something in your mind and its also called "hold something in your spirit or thoughts"

 

With an empty mind, totally blank is not enough

 

You have to think about something

 

What do we think? It's called "Holding something in your spirit or thoughts"

 

Think about your own body and your own jing-chi-shen

 

Put your knees in front of you as wide as your shoulders

 

Think about something good for your health

 

This is called "holding something in your spirit or thoughts"

 

It is like no-self - there's no me in this world . . .

 

Then the heaven and the earth and the "me" are merged and melted together

 

It's called "Human and heavens mixed together"

 

The sky and the human and the earth the three things are melted together

 

At this attainment status

 

If you have any small problems with your body they will all be gone

 

That's why Lao Jun Yang Sheng Gong can be good for your health

 

You can be healthy without any injections or medicine

 

That's the secret of it

 

That's the first part and besides that

 

There are three ways to meditate

 

One is sitting quietly

 

and the second is lying down

 

And the third is standing up

 

So the three ways are sitting, lying and standing up

 

And the second part is movement

 

It has five steps

 

One is to make the joints lubricated

 

And make all the joints in our body so lubricated and flexible

 

Flexible Like the rolling balls

 

And another step is to condition the qi and the blood

 

Make qi and blood flow in the body easily

 

The third step is to make the tendons and bones strong

 

Make the tendons and bones flexible and hard

 

And one step is morning gong

 

Morning gong is called featherized longevity running

 

The reason it's featherized is think like you are a piece of a feather

 

Make yourself like a light and small feather

 

And so light so you can run

 

One step is evening gong

 

and it's called free walking in space

 

To make you feel like wandering in space or the heavens

 

This is the details and system of lao jun gong

 

When we talked about sitting it has three contents

 

Sitting with something in your mind, sitting with no self and sitting with heaven and earth

 

sitting with something in your mind, sitting with no self, and sitting with heaven and earth

 

Featherized longevity running and free walking in space

 

The way those gongs can help you is you can be said Wudang Lao Jun Gong makes you become immortal

 

In China the tallest old man, the old man with the greatest dao de

 

Cure hundreds of diseases and make you go back to youth

 

Even if you had cancer it can be cured with it

 

Make your body and mind healthy without injections and medicines

 

It seems to be so magical that it has so many benefits for you

 

IT's kind of magical but when you do it it's so simple

 

Because most people who do it are middle aged and old it can't be so difficult

 

So we have to learn from the nature and also make it simple

 

Then the spirit of the gong can be seen by many people

 

This is the main benefits of Wudang Lao Jun Gong

 

Next I will show you the Lao Jun Gong

 

A rigid posture is not so important to meditation . . .

Are you like me?

 

 

Probably not.

 

I am mostly incompetent and lucky, but not much in the way of wonderful.

 

If you want to talk you can feel free to email me at general (at) taoisttraining.com (as can anyone). I am super busy at the moment so don't read taobums so much as I was before and that is the best way to contact me about whatever. . .

 

Since I don't want to take up a lot of time in another message I will say here that I'm back in Kunming for a bit, and just these days Shaolin has been set to take over two temples here.

 

http://gokunming.com/en/blog/item/746/shao...kunming_temples

 

It will be interesting.

 

I hope Wudang culture is spread far, but I hope they don't go much further down this road than they already are . . .

I don't want to say much about him, because it will seem like I'm trying to hype him up.

 

I guess everyone does that with their teacher, and everyone believes their teacher is the best.

 

As you maybe know the "official" lineage at wudang is San Feng pai. There are some heavy politics about that which I don't want to talk about . . . He is Mozhen (needle grinding) pai which is no longer public at Wudang. Not that it's hidden or secret - Just that San Feng pai is what's recognized by the government.

 

He's 83. Moves better than me at 33. Cured himself of Parkinsons. Was a Mandarin teacher at university 40 years ago or so.

 

Here's an unedited video of some movement clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-pe-vaGPFY

 

Here's an unedited video of him talking about meditation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtIqkXS40BM

 

What I'm going to make available is the complete Lao Jun (an honorific sort of name for Lao Zi) system with his book (about 5% or less was above) on Xin Yu (Heart Language), the entire movement system (takes about 2 hours to complete if you do it all but it's not necessary to do it all), the meditation stuff, theory videos, some audio material, etc.

 

No hype. It's not going to lead you to consumation "quick". It's not for getting worldly powers. It's not for having trippy "experiences".

 

It's for enlightening to what you are, what your responsiblity is and to whom, and then living accordingly.

 

It will take me a while to finish, because a lot of what he says doesn't even make sense in Chinese at the surface level and there's a lot of old words and combinations of old words that have different meanings when put together that modern Chinese can't even understand, much less me who has barely scratched the surface of the language.

 

J

Hey everybody,

 

I want to thank everyone for the enjoyable conversations and discussions I've had here.

 

For the next month or so, I'm going to take a break from ALL non-essential internet activity to learn a few things I've put off here at Wudang (put off because I didn't want to do them!), and I'm going to really be spending all of my computer time to finish up my project at http://www.wudangquan.com . . .

 

Basically I'm going to have to translate about 10 hours of video, including some heavy discussions on theory, etc. as well as the movments, the meditation system, the xin yu/heart language, etc. and I'm going to have to do heavy video editing and formatting.

 

Those of you who have gotten to know me hopefully realize that I'm a "no-BS" dude and I generally try to help people as much as I can, if they're sincerely interested and not just rubbernecking.

 

I also don't front about who or what I am or perp myself up.

 

That being said - I'm going to CRUSH IT with delivering an online Neigong program that anybody can really benefit from - the likes of which have never been made available before.

 

Everything will be done online with streaming video and such. And not the boring videos of me making slideshows on abstract theory (but hey - I still really liked doing it and I definitely got value from doing it!). It'll be real time stuff, from my teacher here at Wudang.

 

So here's the thing . . .

 

I want to spam you.

 

You want me to spam you. Believe me.

 

While I'm gearing up to let this out for people, I'm going to be releasing a bunch of crazy free stuff. Do yourself a favor and go to http://www.wudangquan.com and click the picture of the book and sign up to get it.

 

The book is ok.

 

More importantly, because of bandwidth considerations I'm only going to make the material available to a limited number of people when it's ready, and getting onto the mailing list will be like a pre-registration and I can let you know exactly when you need to sign up.

 

So that's it. I'm not going to lather you up and tell you we're going to release your inner lizard, or beam you up to the mothership.

 

It is what it is.

 

But I know there are some people here who would like to learn a real, complete neigong system that don't have access to a teacher, or can't find a good teacher . . .

 

So take it easy bums . . . I might drop by like once in a blue moon, and then I'll be back after the dust settles, but right now I have crazy work to do.

 

Peace

From what I've always heard Bruce was much more into Krishnamurti than anything else, as far as that goes.

 

He was also a philosophy major, so I'm sure that bad temper, possibly bad ego, etc. aside - he had at least a strong academic foundation in Philosophy and probably an ok cultural context for understanding the basics of Taoism.

 

I think he was a case of the right person, at the right time, at the right place.

 

Anyone own the 25th anniversary edition of Enter The Dragon? It has a bunch of old interviews and stuff with him where he looks STOOOOONED, but is talking about some interesting stuff regarding martial arts, life, philosophy, etc.

Paying back karma isn't the focus . . .

 

IMHO the focus should just be decreasing resistance.

 

But part of that is learning not to resist the pain that we have brought upon ourselves.

 

I mean to say that I feel this notion of living in "bliss" prior to consumation of cultivation leads backwards. It's sort of an evolutionary u-turn.

 

And I don't mean that you should look for or relish suffering.

 

The "Concept" of debt is a bit more than some kind of conditioned human idea, as well. I believe it's a natural fact.

 

Relishing it is a symptom of attachments.

 

Avoiding it leads to a prolonged path of re-birth.

 

It's just part of the equation, and all of the parts (Virtue, Debt, Energy, and Resistance to energy) act in a synchronous way.

 

Accepting it is with a smile, taking hardships as joys and caring less about your own vested interests or their loss- this is walking along the path of absolute non-resistance.

 

Or at least that's what I think. I could be completely off base.

The thing you said about jumping from one train to another was curious to me. What did you mean?

 

Is that a reference to system sufers?

 

Anyway - it reminded me of something about that. About trying to put parts from a computer into a tv and expecting it to work.

I don't think that following the tao and comfort exclude each other.

 

I think that the thing which causes discomfort is attachment.

 

If you don't care much about money - it's not a big deal to go to sleep every night on a bed made out of 100 dollar bills.

 

Same with food, or clothes or cars or heat or electricity or your human body.

 

That's not to say that it's a cakewalk or something.

 

My (limited) experience has been one of stupid bumbling around, consciously trying to bear as much retribution as I am owed in this lifetime as I can, etc.

 

We've all got some serious debts to pay. . .

 

While the end goal is liberation and non-attached, non duality and non-resistance . . .

 

The reality in the here and now is you can choose to pay down the principle or the interest on your own karma, but you're gonna pay either way.