Seth Ananda

Actually that is near impossible with Vmarco. I tried numerous times to have friendly dialogue with him, but he quite literally will not be civil to someone who disagrees with him. The only time we have had a friendly set of exchanges is when I was 'agreeing' with him. Despite what he says about not being Interested in the Teacher/student roles, he will only be civil towards others who are allowing him to fill the teacher position. ~ Him teaching/helping them ~ Anyone can go back and look at any number of exchanges between nearly anyone and Vmarco, and the posts will speak for themselves. Friendly Vmarco = Vmarco as teacher, espousing his perfect worldview. Unfriendly Vmarco = Vmarco being challenged or disagreed with. This precipitates lengthy cut and paste responses and descriptions of the disagree'r as an ignorant primate barely worth talking about. Despite the fact that you keep trying to get people to be nice to Vmarco, maybe you should seriously try to get Vmarco to be nice to others... Some of the nicest people on this forum have copped a ton of insults from Vmarco, and had him drag their names through them mud, simply for disagreeing with him. anamatva, ct, and others continually get called mentally dishonest, perverters of the truth, spoilers and so on, all because they dare to think for them selves. I know some here find him interesting, and it seems he is already getting a few 'followers' who have decided that because of the sheer volume of his posts that he must know something, but any one who speaks loudly and constantly will eventually convince others that they really are on to something... I personally can not put him on Ignore. The reason is I grew up in a Cult. Vmarco speaks and relates just like the Cult leader. I cant allow him to get away with some of what he is saying. Sure there is 'truth' mixed into it, but that is not the part I am worried about. I am worried about all the layers of 'Vmarco' that are piled up on top of it. I wont sit by while anyone BS's other people. And as for staying on topic, is Vmarco allowed to Vmarco any thread because he is the all time authority on Buddhism/4thWay/toltec/newage/gnostic/acim/and any other subject he thinks he is a master of? Why should one member be allowed to turn every thread he joins into a Vmarco/shortpath thread just because he collected some quotes from that source?

Magick gives me fairly consistent access to deeper states of consciousness. And i personally feel that it helps develop the navigatioal skills for the spiritual world that will be required after death. It also helps me integrate various parts of me that may often be at odds. Invocation/evocation has given me some of the weirdst and very rewarding experiences of my life. More so, Theurgy, or the Invocation of higher beings has given me some of the greatest experiences of my life. I personally really enjoy Magick, more than most other things I have done. I enjoy interacting with the denizens of the universe. I enjoy the questions the inevitable experiences create for me. I particularly enjoy the reciprocal relationship with the living interactive universe that gets brought about by Magick.

Are you adressing this to me Cat? All I have been doing is asking Vmarco to stay on track. I really dont think he needs his Mod/semimod friends flexing their muscles for him... And I am sure favouritism is an abuse of mod/semimod position. How come I never see you step in and ask him personally to stop being so condecending to anyone who dares to disagree with him? But I do see you 'liking' his posts often enough... You are kidding right? Turning up at a mechanics convention and claiming an orange is a car radiator, is not talking Mechanics. Vmarco has said nothing about Ally's that in any way relates to Toltec understanding of what an Ally is. All he has done is picked a word from Toltec tradition, and turned it into Vmarco short path... And you are here as a semimod defending that? So it is ok to hijack threads, if you, Cat, semi mod, like the directon it goes in? Well I do remember you PMing me demanding that I give Vmarco an easier time. That was in the epic thread where Vmarco actually conceded a point! It took several days to get him to consider that maybe the way one group of Hindu's use the Word Brahman could be different to the way another group uses it... 3 Days... + The reason he was {and is} so afraid to think, is he has wholesale bought a set of Ideas, and then convinced himself that they are 'not' beliefs... Those Ideas are his Vmarco shortpath Ideas. They hang massively on his particular interpretation of certain aspects of Buddhist thought. Because he see's himself as being one of the few true understanders of Buddhism, and because Buddha taught against Brahman, he was terrified to even go near the Idea that some advaitin concepts of Brahman are of timeless unmoving uncreating presence, free from coming and going, as that is how he see's his undivided light. -For a belief Monkey that is just not allowed- I got through to him in that thread on just one tiny point. I have not seen that happen again. He is the most ossofied stubborn poster this forum has ever had. Even VJH could communicate. And you stepped in to Nanny me with your PM. For trying to force some degree of clear thinking and honesty. Please reread this thread, from the view point of Toltec subject matter, and look for the Bullying you claim, and include Vmarcos posts in that scrutiny...

More Pie Guy, you are not welcome in this forum if your only wish is to disparage the Occultists here, and I really cant imagine you would have any other interest here, so stay out. If you remember back a little while, this forum was started in part as a result of conversations with you, where you insisted on shitting all over our threads with your ignorant views of this topic. Stay out or you will be reported. Same rules apply as for Buddhists accosting the Vedantins in their Forum, or new agers mumbling on in the Taoist forum.

Oops yes unnecessary is exactly what I meant.

In the Toltec path, Silent Knowing is the only real 'Truth'. It is always true all the time. And it is utterly nonconceptual. To me it has similarities to the statement that the Tao that can be talked about is not the true Tao. Also Impeccable means living in a way that there is no energy expenditure, as there is no personal history. Thus no drama. Your a mod, so please stay on thread topic, and not encourage these totally irrelevant ramblings into Vmarcos personal belief synthesis... Liking vmarco personally does not excuse you from ignoring your job as a mod here. I think you know it much better that Vmarco. He has tons of 'ideas' all pasted together. He embodies none of it. Its purely conceptual. In Silence all this fades away...

Rubbish! You are thoroughly in need of recapitulation. You are totally caught up in reaction to others, hurt feelings and all the other drama you believe your self to be free of... You sound like the average neo advaitin who spends their life arguing and reacting while bitterly hanging on to the theory that they dont need any personal work, because they realised that they are 'beyond' personal...

What, discussing the actual thread? An Impeccable person would not be acting so hurt at someones disagreement with their theories. An Impeccable person would not falsely assume that some one is feeling vengeance towards them. I feel no vengance towards you. I attempt to challenge your posts, because you write as if you are the absolute authority, which you are not. And that is obvious to anyone who reads your hurt responces to all us 'lunkheads' who are just not smart enough to accept your lofty pronouncements, and absolutist tone. Our disagreement hurts you because you are full of Ego and personal History, despite the fact you think that the short path has freed you from these things. Ego has survival as its number one priority and it get defensive and aggressive when its Ideas are challenged. That pretty much sums you up Vmarco. You have almost no capacity for conversation that includes disagreement, without turning Haughty and mean. Personal History, means things of the past can and do affect you. As you aptly demonstrate over and over again. They dont just affect you, they have power over you. Hence the fact that you 'react' to how you see other peoples Ideas in relation to your own. Here you are totally off topic. this is not a Toltec teaching, this is a vmarco/short path teaching. The Toltec do not make the Tonal 'unreal' and no matter how far they go within the Nagual, the Tonal remains. the Tonal is the Known. It is ever increasing in size as the Silent Knowing of the Nagual, continually brings back Information which becomes conceptual and adds to the Tonal. Stretching Toltec teachings outside their parameters to fit your short path, does not equate with staying on topic. What it does equate with is you trying to turn every thread into a short path teaching.

Please consider staying on topic Vmarco. This thread is about the Tonal and the Nagual, from the Toltec tradition.

We have a natural sense of when something {a past experience or some issue} is finished business or not. Anything that is not finished is an energy leakage. That means your history is draining you. Some might say that there are energy cords connecting you to anyone that you still have issues with. Some describe an Issue as being like an unfinished circle that leaks, until you make things right, thus closing the circle. People have used all kinds of things to fix their personal history. I personally like the Toltec inventory processes that Don Miguel uses, in four agreements companion book, and that some of his students use in books like The complete Idiots guide to Toltec wisdom, banish mind spam, The Toltec Way.. Also I am very fond of the Huna processes like Ho'o'pono'pono {not the jo vitale nonsense} but they are fairly new to me... they seem great at clearing 'stuff' so far... Forgiveness... Also that series, 'My name is Earl' represents a great way. apologise to everyone that you consider you have wronged. And ask them what you can do to make amends. Recapitulation, often gets described with some lengthy processes, such as overnight burials, but I think there are easier ways to start, which I have listed, that don't need to be as hard core. I personally got a lot out of my burial, but less in the way of clearing personal history, and more in the way of my relationship with mother Earth. be well

Don Yuan said that to a Sorcerer, Love was a topic too important for words. Hence not much said, till Casteneda gets further revelations about it being of the Upmost importance from the tenant, in the art of dreaming...

You are wrong Vmarco, to shun the relative. Remember form is emptiness and emptiness is form? Relative existence is the only reason that there are any Bodhisattva's in the first place. Bodhisattvas love the beings within the relative. And we must not denigrate the relative world. The environment, this beautiful world or beautiful Illusion is still here, real or not, and is not going away. The Dzogchen texts say that after realisation, the world remains as an ornament of pure enjoyment. They don't shun it, saying "All you relative dickheads are just belieftards, not like me, I am absolute, im awesome, i dont exist, listen to me pleeeaaase... waaaa!! how dare you think your own thoughts and not agree with me...waaaa!! you dickheads..." Unfortunately that is what most of your posts come off like...

So are you still on subject Vmarco? As I recall this is still the tonal and the Nagual thread, not Buddhist discussion... And you are right on one point. I like to share my experiences and insights with others. You can call that parroting beliefs if you like, but I like to converse about what happens when the inner dialogue shuts off and Silent Knowing emerges. I think that is useful for people, and it is interesting to me. And unlike yourself, i actually reach people, because I share, rather than talking down to them. As for attacking you well, i think you are dangerous. not in the flattering way you might take it, as in dangerous to peoples beliefs, but as in actually dangerous. When I attack your posts I am attacking the thick cloud of beliefs you plaster over the top of some good information. You are trying to batter peoples heads into thinking like you. I think all people need is to learn how to become silent, to the point where non-conceptual knowledge can emerge. Then they can see for themselves. You seem to think people need to believe that beliefs are bad, and to believe that the sensory world is Illusory, and that they have to believe that the phenomenal neither comes nor goes... They do not. They merely need to discover that silence and see for themselves, first hand what they 'Know' or do not 'Know' within that place... And to get back on track, that is why I love subjects on the Tonal and the Nagual. The tonal is the known. All beliefs, all knowledge, the Heart Sutra... all the Tonal. The Nagual is what floats around that and is what is heard when the Tonal shuts up...

If you focus too low you stimulate the second chakra rather than the LDT, hence the flood of sexual feelings. The false dantien tends to be more at the front of the body, where the true is deeper in at the core of the body. False dantien is useful at first, as the chi and warmth builds up easily there, but it takes some good focus and attention to move it strongly into the core. To me I feel like chi is a kind of 'field' with no centre in me, outside of my current activity. ie thinking, feeling, sensing .. Whichever one is dominant at the time becomes the centre of the chi field. So its just jumping around, changing centres and slowly dissipating constantly. But when I begins LDT work, it feels like I anchor the chi field or chi body to the LDT, which becomes a warm/hot little centre that is always there whether I am thinking or feeling or anything else, and so there is less dissipation of chi in general, and it becomes much easier to get much less distracted by thinking and other activities... Not to mention that heat in the LDT is quite pleasurable, so it makes that meditation on stillness that Jo mentioned much easier to achieve..

Ok lol, who am I parroting? Do you see a list of quotes? I am describing my experience of the world. Just saying someone is parroting does not make it true vmarco. This thread is about the Tonal and the Nagual. Why are you PARROTING {yes, copying and pasting is actual parroting Vmarco } Buddhist quotes in it?

hehe, no all I am saying is that you are not a Bodhisattva Vmarco. Not even close. There are lists describing the qualities of a Bodhisattva, and you do not meet the requirements on nearly any of them. And saying that you are not interested in the Teacher/Student thing is a Lie. That is all you are interested in. If you were not interested in being seen as a teacher, you would not be saying that you are a Bodhisattva. But more importantly you would actually converse with people. You do not converse. you 'teach'. You wait for others to stop speaking so that you can step back into your Teacher role, and talk down to them again and again. I have never seen you converse with anyone. The only pleasant interactions anyone here has with you is when they are discussing your Ideas with you, in other words, when you are teaching... So do not lie and say that you have no Interest in the Teacher Student thing again. Lying is not on the Bodhisattva list.

Lol you can parrot beliefs all you want. I am not interested in that. But when thought ceases and Silent Knowing dawns one discovers the universe is Alive, and Conscious... There is a reason why every ancient culture was Animistic. They experienced the world this way. In fact it is very surprising to them that we do not, and that all we seem to do is 'think' in a way that is totally centred in our craniums. Anthropologists have reported the look of surprise on native faces when they have heard us say the mind is centred in the head. When asked where they think it is, they put their hand over the heart. Heart mind which you love to espouse theories and beliefs about, is inherently relational, and is native to us when we have not been turned into isolated thinking machines... But one must be willing to feel, to feel oneself open into the world, and to be willing to relate deeply with everything. That requires dropping into the silence. Nothing new age about.

The main problem a False Teacher faces is how to convince others that he has had the transformation that others clearly sense he has not had. So he has to do a quite despicable thing. He has to make people doubt their intuition. Doubt their inner Knowing. doubt the very core of the spiritual path that he professes to teach. He does this by tricky mental manoeuvring. If he can convince people at their mind level that his shabby lack of character, his poor interpersonal skills, his hostilities, prejudices's and bigotries are really actually the highest form of 'compassion' and even a display of enlightened activity, or some kind of teaching tool, then he has hit a home run in regards to his teacher position. And added another coffin nail to to his students path Another step would be to convince people that other teachers, who may actually have the tangible aura of goodness around them, are only cultivating some inferior 'relative' state, and are really ignorant know nothings. This robs the student of his innate knowing and intuition. Appalling. Very dangerous.

thinking thinking thinking keeps you far from apprehending reality within the great silence... explaining explaining explaining makes you think you are an authority when you are not. Compassion demonstrated in action, such as by real teachers, is the only form of compassion worth mentioning. It is a tangible force that flows from them through their every action, and affects everyone they communicate with. Even people on line. Acting like {and being} a condescending arse, while 'justifying' ones behaviour as being the only 'real' or 'true' compassion is the domain of False Teachers everywhere... Readers of this thread Beware!!!! Undigested theories will be regurgitated upon you! {mental vomit}

You can only manage the Tonal. It is the sum total of the known. The Nagual is unknown, and is the Mystery. Anything you gain from the Nagual instantly becomes part of the Tonal, so there is no 'managing' it. But one can have a relationship to the Nagual. It has to be a relationship of openness to mystery, or beginners mind. One manages the Tonal best by cultivating Impeccibility, by ceasing to make assumptions, by not taking things personally, and by being present. Also cleaning up ones energy, and history are good. Don Miguell Ruiz's books are a great help to this, as well as castenada's Journey to Ixtlan. The more free ones energy becomes, the more one is in tune with nature, and with the simple pleasures of existence, the more often the mind becomes quiet. When the mind or Internal dialogue becomes quiet, all the Information or 'thinking' from the Tonal ceases. When 'Information' or mundane 'knowledge' becomes quiet, then something amazing begins to occur. Silent Knowing or Silent Knowledge. Silent Knowing is sometimes referred to as Gnosis. It is Knowing outside of conceptual activity based on words. It is free of thought, and thus free of belief. This is the voice of the Nagual. But as soon as you translate that Knowing into words, it is no Longer the Nagual, as it has become the Tonal. The Voice of the Nagual is not just a wordless voice. That Knowing can inspire amazing feats in the world. But one needs the confidence and energy to follow it without hesitation. Time spent within the Nagual will let you experience first hand, that the world is indeed a sentient and interactive being made up of, and intermeshed with sentient interactive beings... ...with an unfathomable Mystery behind everything. These are the processes that totally changed the way I view and experience the world...

Many Tibetan Lamas {unlike vmarco (lol and myself so far) } are amazing examples of the Bodhisattva attainment. Most of the stories I have read were in relationship to Dzogchen practitioners, but to hear about them being tortured in Chinese prison camps, seeing friends and loved ones be tortured and executed, and to never start to hate the Chinese soldiers, and to continue to be compassionate no matter what... Well its amazing. But in this thread we have a person claiming to represent their tradition, often as more of an authority than them themselves, who piles insults on anyone who disagrees with him. I have seen monks hang out with tigers, yet Vmarco refuses to see the Buddha nature in pitbulls, and wishes to deny them the chance of a loving relationship with a good owner. One that may help them change their nature. Who when asked about his personal experience hides behind clever rhetoric, saying that personal experience is utterly worthless.. as if Buddha had no experience to mention... This clever manoeuvre allowed him to avoid the question of his own obvious lack of personal transformation, and keep his 'Teacher' position by turning the question into a teaching rant. He refuses to step out of his 'teacher role' and make friends. This excessive identification with a role should ring warning bells enough. Buddha happily taught Hindu's and people from other religions, but vmarco spends all of his time insulting them, and their personal morality. He has an extremely inflexible mind. It once took me three days of back and forwards, just to get him to consider that different schools in Hinduism, may have different conceptions of Brahman. He conceded that point after massive effort. He doesn't really think about the points others make. He jumps to an immediate conclusion based on some 'key word' the person uses, and starts preparing his lengthy list of out of context quotes to 'smash' them with. The monks I have received teachings from, were so careful to really 'get' what a person was saying or meaning, and are all superb teachers. Real Teachers exude compassion. They are kind and tolerant, humble and patient. Their patience is what wins over their students less desirable qualities. False teachers and cult leaders wont admit their faults. Ever. Vmarco is one of these. False teachers will try to hide their character floors behind arguments like: "My lack of compassion is actually real compassion!" Vmarco says this over and over as he vigorously defends his hate filled perspectives. His mind is poisonous. And he is lying to you all. He doesnt care about you. He cares about being seen as an authority, and he will use any tactic he can to defend that position. He says he is fairly non cerebral. This is just hilarious. Is is robotic in his responses. He claims to value the Feminine, yet is completely body, sense and world denying, in favour of a detached unmoving and un-flowing state of existence... The Idea that he could take anyone anywhere of value is ludicrous. That would mean you would end up like him. Anyone who thinks he has something of value to offer here should instead look to the sources he parrots. Buddha, and the monks who are actually peaceful and loving. Whos brains have achieved incredible differences when scanned. Something VM has none of. And Walter Russell. A genius who was intriguing to Nichola Tesla, and who was a Mystic in deep communion with existence, in an {Oh no! the Horror!} Theistic way...

I think he likes to come in, chuck round some 'absolute truth' statements and see what attention/reactions he gets... He does this in nearly every thread...

You are not sorry, you are deliberately condescending. Stay out till you have some respect in your communication style, and have regained a willingness to explore...

Change your tune or get out of our forum. This forum is for people who practice Hermetics of one kind or another, and not for know it all trolls. There are plenty of people who have created all kinds of amazing situations for themselves. Some of those include lottery winners. Magick like that has to be open ended. If you really need a certain amount you have to be open to it coming from anywhere. I know people who have won houses, cars, moterbikes, jet skis, expensive items,and various sized amounts of money. I know one woman who is a professional competition winner. all using some kind of Magick or another...