Seth Ananda

Since Hermetic thought started spreading it has always been opposed by religious tribalism so it found ways to settle in where it could, while keeping a low profile. And yes, the western mind is diseased. But the Root of western thought is Wonderful. Hermetics and Mysticism is Wonderful, and in my book, the cure for the western Mind will not come from eastern thought, {although it may inspire some of its momentum} but from understanding the original vision that lies at the root of our thought. A Vision that is just as grand as Eastern thought, and is probably the foundation for 'eastern' thought as well. Although this will require purging ourselves of the Abrahamic mental Illness. The disease in western mind, does not come from Hermetics, but from Religion and now Science in a way. Parroting on about conspiracy theories is a way to spend an awful lot of time thinking and 'prooving' ones theories, but will not get you or anyone closer to any actual understanding. As I see it, Magick is having a comeback. A New Golden age or Renaissance, as more and more people start to realise what an amazing tool it actually is. Look at how many psychological models have blatently used what was originally Ritual processes and understandings. And as for Sufi's and the Djinn, some of the more esoteric schools do exactly what you just claimed they don't. They contact them. But This is not to get in contact with the Divine, {and nor is it in Hermeticism} but is part of a rigorous self development system... Contemplations and Prayer towards Union with the One, are the ways to connect with the Divine, not invocations of the lower spirits. But the Lower Spirits still have their purpose and function. I won't bother telling you, but instead offer a contemplation. Why do they exist, what is their 'purpose' and why are they so unruly? What could happen if they were brought into Line? What purpose would they then serve? how would they fit in to the great chain of Being? Where the Egyptian Schools used Gods and Goddesses to familiarise oneself with aspects of the divine, Kabballah used the Sephirot, and Names of God {all representing different divine qualities. Sufi's used the 99 names of Allah, Neo platonists and Hermeticists used the Planetry archetypes, geometries, names, Gods&Goddesses and/or others depending where they ended up stationed, and how accepting that culture was... And as for my being Rude towards Ignorance, It is probably my strongest affliction. I despise those who speak and parrot but do not practice. I see it as the height of cowardice and it pisses me off. One day I will overcome it.

Please dont buy into all WWROA conspiracy rubbish. He is a very misinformed person, and has no experience yet tons to say. That should set of alarm bells and your BS detector. And Sure, some manuals are scary. But one must remember that some {not all, some are genuinly dodgy} are using careful and deliberate methods to expose the deepest and nastiest parts of our Beings. As a beginner it is very easy to see that and get the shivers, but don't go making any fixed 'conclusions' just yet. Check out some of the books Serene Blue posted, and maybe some of Theurgy's books if you feel game...

lol really? The Egypt/Babylonian region is the foundation for Western thought. Or in other words, that is where our way of thinking began. And Hermetics, which is the core of the western Mystery Tradition, is rooted in Egyptian thought, and has long opposed Tyrannical religion in any form, by seeking to create a Mystical revolution within each tyrannical religion based around personal and direct connection with Divinity. Out of the Jewish religion came Kabbalah. Out Islam came Sufism. Among Christian religions there were the Mystics. In all of these Mystical traditions one can see the underlying Hermetic Philosophy.

Lol, it seems in my absence, this thread got an Injection of Stupid. Thanks white wolf. Again you espouse ignorant 'theories' and 'conjecture' without any experience to speak of. You Obviously really 'Know' what is 'Really' going on with all your extensive experience... :o Conspiracy has some very unusual elements around it full stop. what ever conspiracy theory a person comes up with, the more they 'look', the more they will find 'evidence' to support that reality tunnel. Whether they have a shred of 'reality' to them or not. On an energetic level, conspiracy is dealing with strong archetypal themes: The War of the 'Good' underdog Vs the Evil multi layered super connected ultra secret government. the sense that a larger organised body is out to get you... The power behind the throne... Holy VS satanic... these are powerful and emotive stories. And due their Archetypal nature, any contact with them starts to trigger synchronistic events, that often seem to confirm further or 'reveal' more of your 'suspicions' about what is really going on. You can see this very clearly in the mind of people like david Icke, who get hysterical about a company using a triangle in its logo, which obviously means that they are connected to ....? and if you look into it further, this Ceo went to Yale which means [automatically] that he has 'Skull and Bones society' connections... and wait, the buisness was founded on the 6/8/72 which is a 'Mayan' sacrifice day {its not really (as fart as I know) its just how conspiracy 'logic' works}... And before you know it, The Queen and her whole family 'literally' 'ARE' a reptillian aliens that feasts on sacrificed babies. He has succeeded there in completely dehumanising a group of people. If that doesn't make you uncomfortable, think of Nazi Germany, where the Jews became Rats, and Less Human. Next, psychological studies of rabid conspiracy theorists show a mind set that is uncomfortable with Mystery and deeply relies on the sense of Importance it gets from being 'Right', and from 'Knowing' the real truth that everyone else is ignorant of. This conviction in their own view leads to aggressive and paranoid reactions to alternative views, unless it can quickly find a way to incorporate a view into its own perspective. Then it will quickly support the new element as 'true' with very little research, as once it has been made to fit, it actually supports the conspiracy theorists fragile and ridgid sense of self based on intellectual knowledge. {based on being someone who 'Knows' and is thus 'important'} These people are very un evolved psychologically and in a sense are unconsciously practising Satanists, in that their view generates and 'invokes' fear and disturbing entities. They are totally tied to Duality energetically speaking, and are often totally incapable of thinking out side of black and white. Black and White thinking Impairs the Brains ability to process information coherently. On to the Masons. The masons do a lot of charity work. Moral Living is considered a Masons number one requirement. Masons were the ones to convince the pope to end the Inquisition. Masons supported the Italian Renaissance in a massive way as the number one patrons of the Arts. They helped publish poets, and free thinkers, they gave out Artist pensions to any Artists who were painting other things than Nativity scenes or pictures of Saints. Masons were the first {harshly oppressed} organised movement against the Churches power, and IMHO they did the most damage to it as a institution. They have always supported Free Thinking and the Arts, as both of those ways of expression are considered crucial to the development of the human Soul. The Brilliant American constitution shows their Vision for a new world of Free Individuals, free of Christian & Religious control, but the Christians fought their way in, {originally via the puratins, a calvanist order who believed the seperation of church and state was blasphemy} and eventually succeeded in making America close to predominately Christian. The Masons see themselves in part, as a container designed to preserve the ancient Teachings on human potential and the development of the soul. - Hermetic thought - as they believe the survival of these teachings is of crucial importance to the evolution of humanity. Check out Manly P Halls 'secret teachings of all ages' to see a brilliant humanitarian and 33 degree Masons mind in action. A conspiracy theorist will eagerly proclaim either that the Masons good works are all a front for their dark interior, or that most average masons are nice people who are dupes, and it is only the elite 33 degree masons who get to know what is really going on. There is a hilarious conspiracy theorist 'mythology' about how the Masons work. It says that only the rich or socially 'connected' get up the ranks, let alone into the 33 degree. Any they are some very rare super elite. This is just not true. Any Mason can get to 33 degree. Do all want to? No. It takes a lot of work, but if one is Interested, one can. And there are many many 33 degree masons in the world. The conspiracy Theorist never stops to ask him self why he is so sure that he knows what the masons are up to and how they run, considering he has never usually even met one. He usually thinks he knows more about it than even the Inside Masons. I had a conspiracy friend of mine, who was quite certain of his knowledge of how Masons run, come round for lunch one day to meet another friend who is a Mason. it was rather funny to observe him trying to tell the mason how even the early grades work, and just get shot down over and over again by simple logic. Unfortunately my friend got very disturbed as his reality tunnel got dismantled, and then a week later was claiming that the mason {who is a very nice and gentle man} had psychically attacked him, and had nearly put him in a psych ward... He quickly rebuilt his sense of self and continues preaching about Mason Satanic Reptiles to this day... Do I believe that Individual Masons have never misused their position? No. Every group gets its rotten eggs...

lol Christians say a lot of things and know almost nothing. I Remember my Christian brother saying he would not read harry potter becuase there is a Spell on every page! Really, that is what they told him in church.... I think he seriously believed that the spells would make people fly around playing quiditch and stuff. This is the kind of Christian/hollywood steriotypes we are trying to escape. And Belial is a Demon. Some Demonolaters may worship him as a God, but they are rare. He is among the popular demons for Goetic workings. In the Western Traditions, God/Divinity is generally Viewed as the One Mind, the way Plato, Plotinus, Porphry, Iamblichus, viewed it. The Kabalistic term Ain Soph is quite a popular term as well. The individual Gods and Goddesses are viewed as facets of the Divine Inteligence/being. But to say all magicians worship Belial is plain retarded Christian paranoia. Very very few do. Dragon Rouge is a Lucifarian Grimior from what I recall, and is also a group based on its use. You will bump into Belial with them. I am in no way anti left hand path practices, in fact I am very pro them, in the right context, but personally I think one should stay away from them as a beginner. Thats a place to really get your hands burnt. lol. What do you mean by Magickian testemonials? I know the occult gets a bad wrap, and the christians do a lot of fear mongering about it. But for noobs who saw it and freaked, Christianity remains a nice shelter for them. As does any number of other religious branches {Islam, Hare Krisna's...} who are able to generate enough rabbid fervour and faith to shield them from whatever reality they opened themselves up too. They too have all their "I was possessed till I met Krishna" and he saved me, naratives. Take care. Seth Ananda.

There is definitely a 'beware' part. And at the same time getting my fingers 'burnt' gave me some brilliant/horrible experiences and insights. I heartily recommend it. I do think beginners are safer usually, for one they would usually be reading and trying simpler stuff, and that stuff often stresses the importance of banishing over and over... Its later on when one starts actually connecting to some Magickal current, and suddenly there is a ramping up of proficiency and skill. one is successfully Invoking spirits, successfully making things 'happen', getting floods of revelation, and having all kinds of weird and interesting experiences. At this stage its very hard not to feel cocky, which may and often does lead to suddenly finding yourself in much deeper waters than you could have conceived... lol. With that said, I should add that no stage is entirely without danger, and many would say that Magick 'should' be dangerous. As for draining spirits, regular Banishing is a must, and energy work like Middle pillar, but also the sooner one starts to forge a relationship with Divinity and its 'high level' powers, the easier it is to scare that stuff off. This is where having genuine aspirations for Spiritual attainment and Union with the One, gives a great edge over Magickians who do not. I have not read anything about Taoist ritual. I prefer the symbol systems that are native to my psyche for Ritual, but I have always wanted to learn more about Taoist sorcery...

I just wrote this for the link given, but thought i'd post it here... Another book that I found really Interesting, is Peter Novak's 'Lost secret of Death'. I think it may have been Serene Blue, who got me on to that ages ago. If it was, Thanks, and if it wasn't Thanks to whoever it was. It boldly attempts to create a unified theory of after death experiences, buy looking at all the kinds of experiences people describe [NDE's & Regression] in the light of what he calls the Binary Soul Doctrine [bSD]. He points out accurately that probably every ancient theory of the soul, all over the world, has 2, 3 or more 'souls' that separate at some point after death, and it seems that all the diverse and sometimes conflicting experiences people have had can be accounted for, using the BSD model. I personally think he over reaches in places, but he has done a superb job of compiling BSD teachings from all over the world in one place. A big emphasis of the book is thinking about how to create a fusion or Marriage of our two primary souls, and there is also a lot of excellent research compiling how different Traditions have approached this Great Work... It is very worth the read if you are interested in this subject

I love the books mentioned as well, and have been planning a reread soon. another book that I found really Interesting, is Peter Novak's 'Lost secret of Death'. I think it may have been Serene Blue, who got me on to that ages ago. If it was, Thanks, and if it wasn't Thanks to whoever it was. It boldly attempts to create a unified theory of after death experiences, buy looking at all the kinds of experiences people describe [NDE's & Regression] in the light of what he calls the Binary Soul Doctrine [bSD]. He points out accurately that probably every ancient theory of the soul, all over the world, has 2, 3 or more 'souls' that separate at some point after death, and it seems that all the diverse and sometimes conflicting experiences people have had can be accounted for, using the BSD model. I personally think he over reaches in places, but he has done a superb job of compiling BSD teachings from all over the world in one place. A big emphasis of the book is thinking about how to create a fusion or Marriage of our two primary souls, and there is also a lot of excellent research compiling how different Traditions have approached this Great Work... It is very worth the read if you are interested in this subject.

I want to get back on thread with this. I will list some of the 'points' and reasons why this grand science of the inner and outer world is worth pursuing. But first I want it to be clear, that not every Magickian or Set of Magickal Teachings understands all of this, or agrees, or practices it all. There is a lot of very immature practitioners out there, and some quite mentally disturbed ones as well. Some are just plain greedy or lazy, and want things without 'working' for them. Some just want to be 'fringe' elements, Some heard about sex magick and just want a woman to one day agree to have sex with them {sorry Thelamites } Some disempowered souls dream of power over hoards of demons, {and women} and want to pour occult vengeance down on the heads of the high school jocks who humiliated them in school. Some are just curious and want to know if it can work. These IMHO are 98% of the practitioners. Most Magickians I have met fit in here somewhere, or at least did when they started. They have a sporadic periods success and a few do better than that, But the important thing is that the experiences and suprising successes may Inspire them to move into a more mature relationship with magick, and Inspire them towards the real goals of Magick. Illumination or Enlightenment. Ritualistic Magick, helps you make contact, over and over again, with various spiritual forces, energies or beings. This serves to help cultivate ones awareness of subtle energies. It Brings you into contact with the aspects of yourself that reside on similar levels to the invoked/evoked being, which makes it a valuable tool for self knowledge. Assuming you want to develop more 'non local' kinds of awareness. It releases massive surges of energy and Libido through the mind and psyche, which amazifies ones life, and sense of self. Also personally, as I love tummo & LTD practice, these energy surges have profoundly amplified my practice of Taoist energy arts... It can seriously alter ones personality. A timid and weak willed person Invoking Mars for instance can start to activate some serious confidence and 'direction' vastly improving their quality of life. {Prove it they scream! thats unscientific! lol} As the mind comes alive, activated by Symbol systems {the language of the right brain - not all this left brain 'prove it' logic stuff which most of us have in abundance} you become more connected - feeling wise, to the world and others, to mystery, to nature and archetypes... This in itself is one of the great reasons to practice Magick. When this starts to happen, this 'change' in the mind, you start to notice a great increase in Intuition. Lucid dreams, and powerful, deep, insightful dreams sky rocket. Random and surprising spiritual or psychic experiences seem to just start happening, regularly. And then there is the blatant increase in 'synchronicities' which are usually tied to contacting archetypal forces. {These are fun, and sometimes startling, although they mean nothing in them selves by the way, and are just a side effect of inner contact. This makes people like David Ikke particularly funny, as they take synchronicity as a message that they are on the right track, and their conspiracy theories get wilder and wilder as they follow archetypal patterns and themes down the rabbit hole...} This new way of functioning for the mind, allows for the practice of contemplations, towards Union with the One, {The real goal of Magick} in a way that is impossible outside of this deep transformation. Magick {correctly practiced obviously} causes a deep state change, which would be easily observable with brain state gear. Also, In my counselling course they showed a series of studies linking happiness, a deep sense of meaning, and general quality of life to strongly activated right brain activities. It also showed that the more Left brain dominant a person is, the more they moved across towards depression and a sense of disconnection and alienation. They had less meaningful lives, less meaningful relationships and less fun. And finally, just to piss off MPG. Magick can effect the world. You can 'make' things happen. This can not be tested in a lab as you can not fit the world in a lab. If you do a spell {or sometimes several} to bring something about, to change something, and it usually happens fairly quickly. So you could do a spell in a lab, sure, but the result will be out in the world. That leaves it up to you ~without your scientific father figure holding your hand~ to decide if it really was 'Magick' or if it was an event that was just going to happen anyway? The best way to test this is to do it over and over again, over time, to see if it starts seem uncanny, and to see if you can make weirder, more unlikely things happen... I have done this and feel quite certain that it works. But more importantly, I found that on the journey I started to live a Magickal life, and had been drawn into a world I hadn't known even existed. Blessings on all your endeavours!

punch him and ask him if he just 'believes' that it hurts, and then ask him why he is creating that experience? lol

Ritual Magic is an important Taoist art as well from what I have read. MPG, you have said your piece over and over and its getting old. From what 'you can see' Magick has nothing in anyway of value, results wise blah blah blah... You have not practised any of this in any way, to 'see for yourself' yet you continue to drool your ineptitude. Theurgy mentioned some of the greats of the Western traditions, and your trolling voice bleated that just because they are remembered by history means they in no way wielded any power. Laotsu? Changtsu...? The goal of magick ultimately is union with the One. Any reading of these greats shows that they did indeed have great experience and comprehension of the underlying reality. Not to mention some of them were considered great healers/psychics/miracle workers in their own times... So again, If the end results of Magick are mystical union, and the end results of Taoism can sound very very similar, then why all the crap? Why don't you apply your imagined scientific prowess and skeptisism to yourself, before crapping all over another thread? Show us some scientifically observed, repeatable thing you can do over and over that 'prooves' something? And why do you 'believe' in mopai so much? You never met JC, or even laid eyes on him, yet you are adamant that the tiny portion of Taoism that you practice is the one and only way. How do you actuallu 'Know' that it is? And stop using the lowest common denominator of a tradition to frame the whole thing, as it is an appallingly weak argument or conversation tool. Every tradition has crackpots in their parents basements who will claim membership. I have met wannabe Taoists who think they will be Immortals in just a few months. This in no way makes me write off an entire tradition.

Great Post Serene

Really. It seemed that people have been putting in recomendations and valuable resources... What are you not clear about? I do think it is wonderful, yes. I have lots of experience yes, but I would not say 'vast' unfortunately... Hopefully oneday That has not been my intention at all! Sorry if it came off that way! To me this is a bit sad. I personally am devoted, in a sense, to Everything. I Worship at the Alter of Existence, the large and the small, the one and the many, as in Worship I find the perfect expression of my Heart.

To me, when I have seen this happen [also a lot], is when the magician has become overly entrenched in his practice 'being a certain way' according to... which usually coincides with a loss of creativity and autonomy... I am not sure If I relate to this. I guess for me, my spiritual path has always been first and foremost, and I don't see Magick, high or low, as being an obstacle, requiring an either/or scenario... Hey! Don't knock group masturbation! lol. And I agree, if one is ready for such Issues. Some don't want to deal with that stuff yet, and lesser stuff may trigger their interests. Sure, if one does 'fun' Magick to the exclusion of all else... But In the good ones, even then, the 'pop Magick' stuff may trigger deeper experiences that trigger deeper questions... As always Theurgy, You rock! Seth.

Reproducible in what way? A lot of Magick works with spirits, and regardless of what you 'think' they are {Imagination/archetypes/real...} they 'act' as if they are fully independent beings, just like you or I. This is where things get tricky. You might be able to get a spirit to do something 'unusual' but if you try again the next day... well the results will be as random as me trying to get you to do something over and over again. On this note, much Ritual is triggering powerful Inner states, many that would show up on an eeg, but even the states themselves, (being part of the psyche) are subject to constant change... It is especially true about Magick, that you can never step into the same river twice... For Instance Many many years ago, I was possessed by Pan. It was an astounding state, to experience 'being' in all the trees and plants within a few hundred yards, and my sense of smell went through the roof. I could smell where a woman was at in her cycle from 50 feet for instance, { I asked a few afterwards for confirmation!} and men got very territorial with me suddenly. When the possession ended, my sense of smell diminished but still remained much stronger than it had ever been, for several years. I see this experience as a 'Gift' from a luminous being. So the next ritual to Pan I did, do you think I was worrying about whether 'I' could reproduce this experience? No. Also, how would you determine a master from the two traditions? Say they get somewhere similar but have different skill sets, based on how they got there? For Instance In Taoism there is a lot of emphasis on building a mass of energy in the LDT, and thats a bit different to magick. Magick on the other hand, {depending on the school} is trying to create a fusion of the Soul and Spirit, which to me sounds a lot like the Hun and the Po, but the way there is different. Say a magician achieves this 'first marriage' in other ways than mastering his LDT. Should she be expected to display LDT skills to be valid? And finally, Magick turns on the Minds 'Inner content' in random and surprising ways. The logical and scientific mind can not keep up with it. This is far more exciting and rewarding than living in a sceptics universe, and it does not exclude practising whatever 'real' Inner alchemy you think you have found. In fact it would compliment it.

Thanks! I had pop up blocker running and it wouldn't let me use the quote button, or let me cut and paste for some reason...

That how to grow a lotus one is great. I used fig 1, 2 & 4 extensively. 1&2 are great bending forwards by the way. Can anyone explain to me how to quote properly? I don't get this new website format yet!

Theurgy, I couldn't agree more on most of your points. Most Chaos Magick practitioners I have met were poor or unemployed bong heads. Sad really. But is it any wonder that the lower demographic of society gets attracted to Magick? The disempowered will be attracted to anything that offers power [whether it delivers the goods or not]. And I wan't to add that mos't Chaos Magician bong heads are far more interesting and have had far more interesting experiences than your average boring bong head. So in my book, its still a step in the right direction. And I have seen people do something entirely different with Chaos Magick, and make something quite beautiful from it, which is why I am a fan. About wealth though. What about a powerful umbundu sorcerer living in a poor village, who is content to help his people with his skills? Is his social standing proof of anything? Mind you, he probably has a certain nobility of spirit found lacking in many 'modern' day Magicians... I fully support 'paradigm shifting' but believe that one should be willing to spend many many years mastering that paradigm and its perspectives... Some paradigms though are awfully similar so any work in that paradigm region is basically digging the same well. I Never looked at Liseweskis work as seeing Hyatts name across anything tends to turn me off... Maybe I'll have a peek. White Wolf ROA. I don't think you know what you are talking about, very much at all in this thread. Not trying to be rude, but have you actually practised anything? You are regurgitating what sounds like Christian paranoia... Devotion is not Vampiric in general, as it charges up the both of you, and creates the connection needed. Your fear sounds like the fear of someone who has read and not practised, and who has then made 'conclusions' based on a bunch of 'ideas' rather than experiences. There are many Nature worship Rituals. Just because you didn't find them in one place doesn't mean that they don't exist, or that you can't make them up even.... And finally, making contact with Demonic beings can not be understood till you have done it. One can learn a great great deal from such practices.

OldGreen, to me thats, Um... Stupid? Lol, sorry to sound flippant, but there are many many 'stupid' magicians out there, with all their really 'informed' opinions. Many of them rarely practice what they dis, and probably rarely practice anything. Some have just bought a particular traditions dogmas {the one they ascribe to} and like regular church goers, don't really think outside of that. Can you yourself think of multiple cases of possible Rituals that are not Black Magick? I can. Many rituals are purely to set space to Honour and connect with Natural forces, some are to transform the Magician, some are to help one familiarise oneself with the subtle realms, some are to work change of 'good' or 'eeevviiiillll'!!!

Hey Sinansensor! If you want to be near nature, and near people who are like you, write out a list of what theses people and places do, and need and see if any are attractive to you. Say your list was something like: Spiritual retreats & Meditators. Then there are probably dozens of places like these that need dedicated gardners, builders, landscapers, book keepers, plumbers, electricians... If you have these skills many places will welcome you with open arms, and you can do some weekly work for them, and stay there while learning whatever other stuff you want... i know a few builders here in Aus for instance that have been community hopping for the last few decades, and really enjoying Life.

Great Poem DNB Full Lotus is wonderful. Do those hip stretches people, as the position pays for the effort to get it, many times over...

I definitely second SlackerBee's suggestion to work with what you get 'good' vibes from, but would like to add that some systems work with 'dark' energies very Intensively, and this can be very rewarding on many levels. Sure, Its a bit like jumping in the deep end, but I am usually all for that. I would say if you feel 'drawn' or attracted to a system of magick then give it a go. Daimonic Reality and Visual Magick are both great books by the way... Another book I might add is 'Generation Hex' which is like a compilation of biographies, based on a number of Younger Magicians Magickal careers, experiments, thoughts, experiences and so on... There are some really brilliant articles in there, showing {in some cases} just how far one can stretch or alter traditions, sometimes with startling results... Seth.

Lets not get carried away with one book or schools definitions over anothers Panas... Plenty of schools call Ceremonial Magick Ritual Magick and vice versa. My two favourite books on Chaos Magick are 'Liber Null & Psychonaut' which was/is 2 truly original texts on Magick, and now in one volume. Its the volume/s that helped start the whole chaos wildfire... The other is 'Between Spaces' by Australia's Templum Nigri Solis. I can't speak highly enough of this book for any lovers of Chaos Magick. Utterly original and verges on astounding... It has limited numbers in print, so grab it quick... For Beginners who just want to know how to start, I suggest All of Phil Hine's works, and especially Oven Ready Chaos which is available as a free PDF with a google search, and is a great Intro. For people who want some great Philosophy Then Ramsey Dukes books are superb. Blast and SSOTBME are quite brilliant reads although not really 'practical'... Have Fun.

Hi K. I dont personally worry about such things. I contact what I intent to contact and that is that in general. When contact Pan, I don't get Satan, Unless i was deliberately trying to get a hybrid of the two. Nothing against Satan by the way, he is quite interesting in his own right...

-K- In my experience you get the one you call. Experiences with Ashteroth are quite different to experiences with Isis. The Santa Daime's Jesus is very different to the Jesus of some of the fearful little {and huge} cults our there. I agree with Disabled not Broken's egregore thing whole heartedly. I sometimes call it a morphic field, or a paradigm, but what ever one names it, moving into contact with a tradition, even before you actively 'believe' in it, moves you into that traditions energy field. There are so many examples of this out there that its just not funny. For Instance a girl meets a christian or a voodoo houngan, but she is not swayed, but then home that night has a vision or some dream visitation of baby Jeebus, or Erzulie, and then she 'Believes'... So many peoples personal conversion stories run along these lines... In looking for 'your' tradition, I think it is important to have a taste of many different systems as possible, and stay open to experiencing new ones, as they have very unique and enriching ways of experiencing the world within them, and even after you have chosen the one/s that you wish to work with {based on what fits you best} there will be rewarding reflections from meeting other 'egregore's'. Seth.