Seth Ananda

I have been thinking about your points Hundun, and I think I may have overemphasised the follow yourself as being contrary to pushing yourself. As you have said, there really is a time to push yourself, but I think following oneself will lead to that as well. I think the reason I overemphasised the following, is having lived for a few years with Sanyassins {you know the ones, lol} and done Dynamic each morning and Kundalini each evening.. In which one just pushes oneself to try and have some Cathartic experience. This was good in my early 20's but then years later, all it does is leave me with a hoarse voice... and no emotional access whatsoever... Then I found the Spontaneous Philosophy's, and found that it was suddenly a total journey into my being, and far far more effective and introspective than just forcing the whole thing... But I have always been an extremist when it comes to my path, which is why I like such long sessions... {or even longer} Then again, I am probably over cautious with new students, or with people I don't know personally... Anyway Hundun, thanks for being your awesome self, and for your help with the Shaking stuff Peace be upon you!

Are you saying you a Master of Internal Alchemy? If so, can you flex your kidneys, control how your blood moves, enter embryonic breathing [stop actually breathing for an extended period], emit chi to burn away tumors in people, and come and go from your body at will? Even more amazing to me would be the ability to sit non distracted for an hour...? If you can't do these things yet, what is it you 'Get' about Internal alchemy? And I still don't get what Guts has to do with it? I can happily say "I am a Master" which is not true, but it doesn't really take any guts to say... This is a strange thread...

Oh no, I never studied with him unfortunately. I only met him a couple of times through a friend and got to see him flex his kidneys once, at my friends request... Impressive. looked like they were 'jumping' under his skin... he could alternate them or do it simultaneously... And he is an old man now...

Hahaha! My last house mate helped to sue Rhonda [the creator of the secret]. She promised her video editor a percentage of the profits, but when she realised that the movie was going to make an absolute package, she fired him for 'incompetence'... lol. He took her to court, and if I have the story straight, the judge was outraged, and gave him half the profits, which was a chunk more than she would have had to pay him, if she had just been honest to her word... Half the speakers on it, seem to have a history of confusing 'Manifesting' with the right to just take whatever they want from others, conscience free... Then there is the Deluded Bob Proctor, who tells people that everyone can be a multi millionaire because there are unlimited resources from God. Everyone on earth can have 6 cars, and everything they want when they want it, and they dont have to worry about the environment, as that is just fear and scarcity consciousness...

Yep, professor Wong here in Melbourne could flex his kidneys and other awesome stuff... It is a great tragedy that he now has dementia... His knowledge of Chinese medicine, Qigong and IMA was vast... Blessings to him.

Nice quote Scotty!

Many schools would consider both of these to be concentration. Take Dzogchen training for instance... Shinay {shamatha/concentration} with a suport {one pointed} and Shinay without a support {open awareness}... Both concentration paths. Open awareness is trained by concentrating on being open... This is not entirely accurate. The Heart word in the Heart Sutra, is not referring to the Heart chakra. It's meaning is closer to essential, or the heart of the matter so to speak... Lots of Sanskrit and Tibetan translations into English read heart in that way... I guess you could say its meaning is related to the physical heart - as the essential organ, but it is not a direct metaphore... Here is an example, a text that gets sometimes called -Three words that strike the heart- is more properly translated to - The Three words that strike the vital or essential point... But back on topic, Mantra is wonderful and I have used it extensively, with great results... So many great Saints had it as their primary practice. One Sufi Saint said "Any breath that does not repeat the Name of God is a wasted breath!" Another said "pray without ceasing" I lived by that for many years...

A master of what? There is that saying, that it takes 10,000 hours of practising something to become a master of it. If that is the case, most people are masters of television watching, masters of eating crap food, masters of living in a distracted and Inauthentic fashion... And Mastery has certain observable elements, obviously depending on what ever it is that has been mastered... Here is Isao Machii cutting a bb gun pellet... You can be damn sure he put in his 10,000 hours! My questions are what have you mastered? Why do you want to call your self a master? If you really are a master, does it even matter to you if you get called that or not?

Brilliant post Hundun

To me, the concept of following oneself has the concept of respecting oneself and of being kind to oneself Embedded within it. I can't speak for you, but If I was feeling dizzy or nauseous i would slow right down to very slow pulsing... Although, I would not end up there in the first place, because it I dont push myself in practice, I follow myself... The Important question here is, do you push yourself? What leads to you getting dizzy? If you are not pushing your self here, have you seen a doctor? shaking practises [i hear] can agitate a few medical conditions. And if that's not it, Hows your energy system? Do you have Kundalini history that you know of?

Hmm, I am not sure how you mean that? There could be subtle similarities but some big differences as well

Cool now dont let my 3 hour thing freak you out... any practice is good practice, but I just find that the really good stuff happens in the longer ones... So if you just did 15 mins or half an hour a day, thats great but if you then felt good to start doing a weekly 3 hour session as well then all the shorter ones in the week are supported by, and build on the long one...

Thanks too, mjjbecker

Awesome

i hate Wwofing. I think it should be called wsoofing [willing slaves on organic farms] but to be fair, some places are great and don't just feed you a bowl of lentil slop for dinner to sleep in a spider infested caravan with holes in its roof, so you can work 3 hours a day for them... Its great for travellers, helps them get around... I myself would just rather get paid, especially for the kind of work you end up doing in some places..

Maybe he dictated it in a canyon?

No problem OldGreen Hundun will have some really good tips on shaking practice as well, as it is a practice dear to us both. For me I like my shaking practice to be spontaneous, The way spontaneous chikung, Yigong, kunlun, and most of the Chinese variety's are Spontaneous. To me that means you follows yourself, exactly as one feels in each moment. That is quite different to Osho's Dynamic meditation or some of the African styles where you shake in a certain way, or Make your self shake continuously with effort. There are a few reasons I prefer it spontaneous style. 1. Duration. When you are following your self, you are less likely to pull or strain a muscle. Getting fatigued is a natural part of any long session, and when you are following yourself, as you get puffed, you naturally slow down till it passes. 2. You get to know your body's intelligence very well. For every blockage, energy contaminant and emotion, there is the 'exact way' your body wants to release it, and you are free to do exactly that... Now I am all for loud music and very long sessions. I line up three hours of crazy music with a variety of moods scapes in it, on my iPod [deliberate product placement, thanks Apple $$$] and get some friends together and shake... I always start standing with groups, but since doing Kunlun and Yigong, I put a chair behind everyone so they can use the Yigong [full credit to Jenny Lamb] seated posture if they want... It can access the hips in a different way to standing which can be very useful. I still prefer standing, but sometimes the seated posture is just brilliant... And the other important tip is vocal expression. This is the other way of shaking ones stuff... Every feeling/blockage/energy has a sound, so make that sound as it comes up.. In a group people are sometimes embarrassed, so I get them to express embarrassment as a noise. In long sessions, one may have periods when one feels like nothing is happening and is getting bored, so express the board noises, or the frustrated sounds at wanting something more interesting to happen, if there is a feeling, express it. If it doesn't sound like a scene from the exorcist at least occasionally and you are not fully enlightened, lol, then you are practising in a defensive manner, protecting your 'stuff' so to speak. Get uninhibited... make a commitment to express physically and vocally, everything you feel in any given moment. And last of all, chuck out my opinions and follow yourself! As too the benefits... Do a three hour session on sunday, and then you tell me But really, Its just great for the energy system. It helps your whole being unwind and de constrict. If you are doing kundalini practices, it helps with every stage of that, from awakening it, to managing it, to letting it reach everywhere in your system. It free's up most blockages that K would hit, [as you get skilled at using it, and following yourself]. Regular practice is highly recommended, as it deepens, and you get better at using it... It can function as an entity removal system with continued use. As you get into it, you will start to have a massive current of energy moving through you, at least for the next few days after practice... A very potent and pure energy. If you do healing work, people will feel like you are nearly electrocuting them, and will feel done in a quarter of the time or less... It not really your energy either, its just your channels get so wide and open... Another final observation. Let it have moments of feeling blatantly religious... If you practice with the sense that you are opening up to the whole of life, Heavenly Chi or God, or that something greater, and try and surrender yourself to that, it brings the heart chakra and upper chakras online, and things can get pretty freaking amazing. If you are a scientific materialist, it will still have good benefits, but it is pretty much just you shaking your lump of meat, and will more often than not stay within the realm of clearing blockages and emotions... Any questions? Have Fun! Seth.

I just love Latex mattresses... I sleep so well on them.

Beautiful... exactly how one releases anavamala... OM...

I think of them as real in a relative sense, but not in an absolute sense {like everything} And I find them to be useful as an Internal model [representational] for gauging myself, as well as a kind of 'cosmic geography' but that is because I have looser reality boundaries than some, so I meet beings from the various realms... The Buddha's 6 realms work well for me personally. blessings!

Interesting points... I sometimes wonder as well about the wisdom of seeking out such experiences, but then I think about how enriching all such experiences have been for me. I tend to think life should be interesting in many directions, and the deeper life of the mind/spirit is one of the most Interesting subjects of all. I have seen studies on altered states and mental health, which claimed there is a direct correlation between lower levels of depression, and increased levels of happiness and meaning and sense of connection to life, in people who regularly experience deeper altered states, {if i remember rightly, the studies were on people who used non ethnogen shamanic trance techniques}. If ones brainwaves never really change, I think ones mind slowly becomes ossified... lol I think humans have a need to experience altered states and have bizarre experiences every so often. But in cultures where this is not really allowed, people fulfil this need with alcoholism [a fairly boring altered state that drowns out and numbs, rather than enriches] and teens get driven to self medicate into altered state through whatever destructive substances are available... That's very sad to me.

Don't get me wrong Taomeow, I think Shamanism is great, I myself just prefer the non ethnogen forms, like the Qero, who hold one of my all time favourite traditions... And I dont see it doing much for [most] of the westerners who take it, even the ones who 'She' talks too, as she did to me. But as I said I do think it works well for the occasional person... My friends go trapsing off to the jungle, to drink and train with the elders, and sometimes they come back, well just really a bit screwy... They [most of them] seem to be gettting more scattered and etherial, the more brew they drink... and to Jetsun, the Vajrayana techniques, and many various energetic kinds of traditions [like the Qero], have superb methods for Interacting with spirits. I personally find these safer, as I do think it is good to not be off ones face when meeting such beings... The chances for possession are just to great...