Seth Ananda

So what you are really saying is that you are Intolerant. Hows that working out for you? Now all religions have done dodgy stuff and some more than others, but my contention is that it is among the mystics that everything can be brought together. The Interfaith movement was founded by Mystics as far as I know {sufi's who walk the path of Love}. Thats why I believe in promoting Mysticism, as It gives people direct experience them selves. I believe that having experience of these states rather than just words is Important. Take a christian mystic for Instance, who one day reads a verse of Rumi, or Baal Shem Tov, and instantly understands what is being spoken of. Experience can bring us closer together, where words can be just divisive. Also the particular experiences of Mystics in the Theistic traditions can't be just wiped aside because you have a problem with them. Nor can they always be adequately explained away by Buddhist rhetoric. These are amazing and Valuable experiences. When we treat the universe or God 'as if' it is sentient and Interactive, then that is how it relates with us. Some people say that is just some higher or deeper level of our own Intelligence Interacting with our primary mind but at least so far no one can prove that. If that is the case its pretty amazing that it can organize the physical world so effectively, as in what we generally call Miracles! Others say that people who only approach divinity as some kind of still Beingness do not allow for the other amazing elements of divine experience to show itself. That so far can not be proven either. I like our own Filters as an explanation for how divinity does or does not relate to us. But that can not be proven either. lol Take that seth! To me E&DO does not remove any experience available in the mystical realm. It just changes our relationship to said phenomena.

'Subject' non duality is like Observer looks at Object and then realises it cant be separated from object. There is still a sense of self there. You are Subject and object. Everything is the self. That is called the Non duality of extremes. The extremes being the Subject and the Object. 'Beyond' non duality has no qualities of self in its nature. Seeing no seer. Thinking no thinker.... everything is including our Internal processes are just luminous appearances freely arising due to dependent conditions, free and unbounded.

Lol, I woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning. Did you your self not say back many pages that you did not get it, then argue against it, then change your mind back and forth several times, and fill many pages with diatribe and rhetoric? All that on top of constantly putting words in other peoples mouth and misunderstanding people's points about what 'No self' means caused me to 'assume' that you don't get it. My Bad!

Yes. Life has no opposite. Birth and death are inextricably tied to each other though. Birth and Death are doors opening and closing and opening that life flows through. I found it kind of funny to realize that no one experiences death. [When I say no one i do not mean that in a 'no self manner'] Or maybe i should say that the only people who experience death are those left behind, who lose a loved one. The 'dying' person experiences and unbroken flow of life. We are still alive at every stage, even when our body has fallen off. So experientialy, when we experience dying, for us it is like a door opening that we step through to a new life. To the ones we leave it is like a door closing. All that is left is a body and we cant see past the door. That is why death is frightening.

Hellooo!

Hi Hannibal!

Ahh... You keep quoting Osho as if he were an authority on something, and now you put up Dolano. Are you a student of hers? Have you done her 'Final' satsang gimick?

Fire breath practices are good when done without excess [if you do not have a teacher]. Heart practices, like the one Ralis posted in the Heart Mind thread will also start purifying and opening the nervous system. I like Mantra. As i repeat it, its like a sphere of loving heart energy expands out through all the layers of my body and fields and beyond. This energy starts working its wonders on the nerves and on the subtle channels and subtle body's. also as intense focus builds up the mind gets clearer and clearer and More luminous. That said, any yoga or Chikung is good also.

As usual what are you talking about? I know it reads like gate but it is a Sanskrit word pronounced like gah-tay. Was this a joke post that just went over my head? I do admit I am up early...

No you have not. You think you know so much, but all you do is Vomit up half digested knowledge. You did not see it at RT, {their fault not yours} and now your endless posts are riddled with assumptions about the experience.

I have been planning to get back at some time, but you also know about the misgivings I had and that were then confirmed by informer's time there. If one person Has been bullied into accepting something prematurely then It can happen to others. I am not cool with that.

This Interpretation makes no sense. I am not a scholar but I have a loose grasp of some Sanskrit. Gate is interpreted as 'to go' or 'gone' and it says this twice in a row. That means 'gone, gone,' or 'to go, to go' if you prefer. then it introduces the word Para to the next Gate. Para means a variety of things along the lines of, greater, supreme, higher, or beyond... depending on the translations. So now we have, 'Gone, gone, greater/higher/supreme/beyond gone, {your choice} Then It introduces 'Sum' to the previous line. I am not sure exactly what sum means, but there is no way at all you can get your translation out of this. Bodhi would often mean an awakened being and Svaha is always Praise or Hail! So generally as it reads it is translated to: Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone beyond the beyond, hail to the awakened ones!

A Bit off topic but this is 'HUGE!' God I Love Ken when he is on a roll, he 'can' be a brilliant brilliant man sometimes... Unfortunately I am seeing this pernicious view infiltrating all sorts of movements these days. a lot of Neo Advaita, Neo Tantra, and new age schools are falling for it massively. The 'Oh you just have to be present, and be authentic in your expression' and everything will be fine kind of teachings. Appalling.

Hi fellow Tibetan Buddhist Bums, {and you lurking Taoists too lol} I have been reading Nargajuna and Longchenpa. I personally really love them both and am getting lots out of my study. To me It seems they are speaking the same language, but I hear they are considered to be belonging to two different schools of thought, Shen Tong and Rang Tong. These two schools have had epic debates over the centuries. I have tried finding some easy to understand descriptions of the differences in thought of these schools, but so far only found heavy schollarly readings. Can someone describe the schools and the differences in thought, and what they took Issue with, an fairly plane english. I find it easier to deal with heavy schollar lingo when somone has given me a good simple explanation first. So, Hit me!

I totally agree. But I was asking what their Logic for doing this is based on. They say that what they postulate is different to the atman view, and I am trying to figure out that rationalization. How is it different, and do they think they have a way that they can make something existent, without it becoming an object of fixation? The idea seems ludicrous to me, but I would like to understand their perspective properly before writing them off. And In regards to Dzogchen, was Longchenpa a shentong? He does not seem to be at all from my reading of him. Also some teachers say that understanding the two views is of great use, and that the truth is found between them. I would like a greater understanding of why they say this. In peoples words if possible with out excessive Link posting.

Sure, But the whole reason I started this thread is to understand the logic used by the shentongs, about Buddha nature having an Existent element. I just can't see what the justification is yet, and they clearly [outside that Nirvans sutra] claim to not be prescribing to an Atman theory. Why do you feel Rangtong is nihilistic? I personally love Nagajuna's philosophy. its doing wonders for me. I feel like its freeing me from the world bit by bit, or starting to cure me of golds physicalism...

Thanks, Good stuff

In fact I will contact him and Invite him...

Hehe absolutely!

Lol, start a thread, go away for two days, come back and Wow! Well I am wading through it... Not sure where to start. Thanks Cow Tao for the links But a question. Your zhentong thread: http://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/zhentong-other-emptiness/ lead me to this: http://www.nirvanasutra.net/ What!? [explanations anyone?] {possibly a dangerous question, lol} Ill get the rest of my other questions straightened out soon...

Ahh. Now we get to the bottom of your projections. You are one of the people I have worried about regarding RT. My case is made. You got bullied into a position or 'Hypnotised' so to speak, brainwashed even. I feel for you and am sorry that your life took a turn for the worse. I fortunately have a very strong mind, a great awareness of cultish behavior and tactics {my own experiences growing up led me to study cults} and have been deeply Immersed in Mysticism for the last 20 years. I took my understanding of anatta over to RT and asked them to put the pressure on, so to speak, and It worked. My life has fortunately got Much much better. People do not tell me I look vacent, if anything the ones closest to me [who I have not tried to convert by the way] tell me that they can tell I have gone through an amazing change, that I feel much more present and loving, which I am. Relatively speaking. Now I think we are having a linguistic Issue. Of course I believe in a 'relative' self. I have said this over and over. Who do you think answers this post? No Self is an Absolute truth, about the nature of relative experience. That there is no self. This has greatly freed my relative self, which still gets to kick along, and do my thing, as i no longer have the same levels of self fixation that I previously had, as in my previous experience of my relative self. I think it could help to read and re read that last paragraph till you get it [what I have been actually saying as opposed to how you have interpreted it], then go back and re read this whole thread. Be well. Blessings on your path. CowTao's responce was perfect by the way. Thanks again CT

Well thank you for the twist of comedy you add to this thread. Your bitter are you not. Things not going your way somewhere? You like to get mean. In your first post you attempt to belittle me by saying I only 'pretend' to look, discounting my many many years of intensive searching, and the utterly high standards I hold myself to with a mere wipe of your hand... Fair enough. then you say this: Why what a stunning diagnosis! Thank you! I feel so much better now. Does my realization make you feel Uncomfortable? Is it because it could be true? Is something squirming around inside of you, repeating 'I exist' 'attack attack' 'I exist'...? Is this why you feel the need to bring my sanity into question? Thats really low by the way. If you cant beat me logically {as you have shown} you resort to cheap crowd tactics... Look everyone he is Nuts! A real Loony! Sounds like to whom? Once again I am only vaguely promoting RT. What I am promoting is the study of Anatta. I have been struggling with Anatta for the last few years, thanks to the fellow bums here, and Rt helped me get it properly, so yes I am grateful [thanks Ruthless Truth] but go re read my RT misgivings post. and my piece in the how to start a cult thread if you must. Anatta is an amazing teaching, and thats what I wish to encourage. But I think there are many people RT would not be good for. I do not believe it. I see it. Clear as day. Maybe I was lucky. I went to RT already extremely well versed in Anatta philosophy. I did not spend long there. I did not get ground down into some submissive pulp, desperate to please and to agree. Youll find the amazing conversation over at RT under 'Hit me Bitches!' in the pit forum. There you can watch them crush all the free will and independence out of me. lol. Wow, you really are desperate to put me down. There is that mean streak again! Poor boy, why you feel that way? I already did. back a bit. Here is a metaphor. The ocean represents the material world. the vaporous clouds represent Spirit. There is a constant alchemical process going on where some water is evaporated and transcends up into the subtle realms, but other vapours are suddenly condensing into rain drops and falling back down. Each of these realms exist but they are totally tied to each other in every way. Like one body made of solid parts and subtle parts. Everything moving, everything transforming, changing... The same goes for us. we have a body, and subtle energetic areas, that some call soul and spirit. But none of this constitutes a Self. When I say self, I mean some fixed, permanent or eternal nature that is always you. That just does not exist on any level. Ever. I continue to exist after realizing No self. In a relative manner. I just happen to know, because I can clearly see, that none of what I call 'me' or 'I' is actually me or I. As the body is a tool for our physical realm, so the spirit and soul are vehicles for the subtlest realms of existence, and they are all dependent on each other, mutually arising, influencing... And also tied inextricably to the realms around them. Same again. Sure there is an seeming existence of a collection of parts that make up the gammut of dependently originating flows through seeming time that also answer when you say "Hey Seth!" I would have to be Nuts to deny the relative level its validity because here it is -seemingly- lol. Not my most eloquent writing. Of course we can attain great realizations, and I sincerely hope we all do. Anatta is a Big step in that direction. A very good step. For me [psst I am really trying to impress people here] It has flung the door open to very powerful Non dual states. And before you say I am a RT sock puppet, I experienced many of these states long before I ever heard of RT. All Anatta has done is make these states far more easily accessible for 'me' [me being my relative self that is]. I would have to be some insane spiritual sadist to not want to tell my friends about what I have learned, when it could potentially help others as it has helped me. Blessings to all. Seth.

Blessings as well to you both. I also say send her a steady stream of love. Its a stabilizing force through the transition. I have always been a fan of shrines as well. To light a candle for her, put meaningful things on it, and tend it with love, it becomes a beacon of loving Intent towards her, that continues to work while you sometimes have to do other things...