Seth Ananda

Lol, no problem Marble, and yes this is an enjoyable thread Now yes there is a problem with Killing a bunch of people at your gods behest. But Is it really at your Gods dictate? I think this usually gets done in the name of some sects Interpretation of some written revelation somewhere, this is just Dogmas and belief and is far removed from Mysticism. But, say you have evoked Mars or some warlike being to physical embodyment, and he Commands you to shed the blood of some enemy in return for his favour, then the situation is a bit different, and I would say that its OK to do it. :lol: Just kidding. Its here, where critical thinking [especially in Mysticism] is Crucial. If you are able to keep your cool in the face of such an Awesome Being - which anyone who has experienced will know is no easy task - then you will be able to keep discernment and lol, not end up in prison. I think at times in the past people did not question the nature of the Divinity that prompted them. Also, sometimes one persons spiritual Interaction prompted them to effect Great change in the world, and this often Included Killing. Look at Joan of Ark, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, And the Rada sect of Voodoo inspired riots that led to the Hatian slaves freeing themselves. Many would argue that great good came from their reign/rebellion. And Last, I just want to question your Idea of Imaginary friends. They do not sound like anyone I know. I have rarely found them to be simple nice and agreeable, and more often to be quite the contrary.

I Think you have to be equally careful how you codify such experiences. Take someone in a theurgistic tradition who starts experiencing 'God's' and Interacting with them, yet is well balanced and shows no signs of 'Mental Illness' apart from some out of the box experiences? Delusion is not a fit category for this kind of experience, with this kind of person. These experiences, had by a psychologically healthy person, are 'Real' psychological events. Is not the mind part of Nature? The debate will go on forever about what such an experience 'really' is but when 'miracles' accompany it, It gets even stickier... Sure, a miracle may be just a random event interpreted to fit a situation, but what about when the presence of a 'God' seems to bring about more astonishing situations at once than seems logically possible? Putting aside our Interpretations of these experiences, these experiences will still continue to be had by psychologicly healthy people. I personally think it would be disingenuous to just shout 'Pathology' because you lack an adequate interpretation for it. That said I also do not think that science should just accept a 'Mystical' interpretation of said experiences, as that would undermine the scientific process, as well as rob us of potentially startling future discovery's.

Sure, Nature is my favourite Girl And yes to the distant gazing! Its found in so many traditions. One describes it as a way to grow 'soul'.

Thanks Blasto for this thread. All the mystical Traditions that really Inspire me required That the initiate develop his/her rational mind and critical thinking abilities. I think my ability to use this function, has allowed me to have great conversations over the years with science heads and materialists. As soon as they realise that I am capable of objectivity [not that I much believe in objectivity] about my own experiences things lighten up and away the conversation goes. Little1, Are Jing qi and shen beliefs? Maybe they are just how you experience the world? The ability to feel chi is a usually learned skill and once learned there is no going back. A person cannot think mathematically till they first learn how to count. And qi is in the same basket. Every person can learn to feel and move chi. Science only has a problem because because its dealing with an 'unseen' phenomena. All the scientific processes can be used Internally, with your own nervous system as the instrument of observation, replacing an external microscope or some such tool. Where is the Belief? It is just a learned skill, and the using of it is a science. I feel this way about Mysticism as well. People call it a pseudo science to denigrate it, but really all it is, is a series of practices that if you are open minded enough to try, will over time bring you to a deep state of Oneness with the sensory and Interior world. {as a start} Sure there are many beliefs on top of the systems, about how to Interpret what this state is, But like learning to count, once you have done it there is no going back.

Damn it, I have been wanting to read that for a while, I began his sequal, Cosmos and psyche but it said to read passion first, so I am waiting.

Hmm, Immortal4life, are you a Fundamentalist Christian, or even Christian? And do you have a religious agenda to convert people? No twisty answers please, just the truth. Blasto, not all Intelligent design people are Christian, although I4L may be... Many Intelligent design theory's include evolution as the way life unfolds, such as the earliest teachings of Hermetisism and most traditions that grew out of it. Everything starts with an Idea...

More Pie Guy, do you have a photo of Lucas Huang? One spell turning amulet you can make, would be to place his photo between two pieces of mirror [face in] and to then Bind it tight with some cord. After that cover it with black wax and hang it somewhere in your house or on your person. Just his name written in paper will suffice if you do not have a photo, and it doesn't matter if that is his real name or not as long as you know who you mean. When you bind the mirrors together, do it with the Intent of binding all his negativity and Karma to his personal sphere, so he gets Instant rebound from anything he trys to send out. Be creative, make up a chant that expresses your Intent clearly and chant it as you tightly bind the mirrors. Also do you feel resonance with any deity Images/concepts? If so try to connect as strongly to It/them as possible before/during/after the working. Make them an offering and pray for success and protection. Hathor is popular Goddess for this kind of spell. People pray for her to turn her Mirror towards the malevolent sorcerer, In fact this kind of turning is often called a Mirror of Hathor rite. Also If you doubt your self or your skill, ask a partner or close friends to perform the ritual with you. This spell can have harsh consequences to a person once bound who try's to hex you. For some that would be a reason not to use it, as there are more gentle ways, like just making a shrine to some protective deity and keeping the candle lit, and tending the shrine daily with cleaning, offerings and meditation. Blessings.

Hi I have only heard the term White Tantra from Yogi Bhajans crew which I am not part of. It is not at all a traditional view point, and may be meant to relate somehow to the Idea of Daksinimarg and Varmamarg which mean Right and Left hand path respectivly. The weird thing is in India, the vedic teachings are usually considered Right hand path, [goodness, trust worthyness, clean] where Varmamarg or Lefthand teachings [the hand you use to wipe your ass] is the box the Tantra's get placed in. It s not as cut and dry as that but close. Now Tantra has many wonderful and many dodgy/dark sects, as well as many sects that are differing percentages of wonderful/dodgy. Some of the Tantra sects, like the Aghora school of the Kaula sect, are masters of cursing, and practice ritual cannabilism and other practices that may seem horific to a westerner [or vedic practitioner] without deeper understanding of what is going on. I personally know practitioners from this school and have engaged in some of their practices, and all I can say is they are lovely compassionate people and their practices work. As for Mantak Chia, he is a Taoist not a Tantrica, but you will find practices at least somewhat similar, that focus on positive energy generation in all schools of Tantra. I have been studying Tantra a long time and I love it. I personally think it is one of the easyiest paths with the quickest results, but it may just suit my personal make up. It is probably not for everyone. It is always funny hearing the crazy superstition from people about what might go on in 'Dark Tantric Rites' as a large amount is really not that bad. I guess to be fair though yes there is a dark side, and some very dodgy practices in some schools of Tantra so do stay away from them. lol, thanks for the chuckle, and have fun

Thanks Twinner To continue with my Formula, I do not see how consciousness/awareness can ever be anything but a Mystery. How can you Know what it is, when Knowing itself is an event that happens within it? or, Can a person with zero consciousness ever known something? Consciousness/awareness are the single prerequsite for all knowledge and experience. You can not become conscious of consciousness. What you can do, is take more notice of the objects and events within consciousness, including noticing in greater detail that you are 'aware' of stuff. Even If you Have Great realisations [like me ] of the Oneness that is consciousness behind/within everything those are still experiences within Consciousness or ?, not ? It self. Consciousness is an experiencing thing, and that is about all we can say about it. Also In the ? -> O I have to point out that -> is not the Ego, Its just a way of describing that ? experiences O, and not the other way around. If anything Ego is in the realm O or Object, as It is an observable phenomona. Have Fun

Oh hell yeah... Also, The Road. I suffered for the dad during that movie...

It seems to me that traditions can get all a bit to cavalier and 'certain' when it comes to what ever Consciousness/Awareness is. Where is the Socratic Wisdom of recognising what we do not know, and being Honest about the limits of our Knowledge? I would like to propose a formula describing Consciousness which contains the Inherit Mystery of the nature of Consciousness. That formula is: ? -> O The ? represents consciousness/awareness as the mystery that it is. The -> arrow represents the direction of observation The letter O stands for Object or the observed. So Mysterious consciousness observes stuff. The O or observed parts represent all perceptions, subtle or dense, all experiences spiritual or earthly, and everything that can be Known or thought or believed. The Arrow, or direction of observation can not be changed. Certain Non dual teachings may give one the sense that the arrow has dissolved, leaving only ConsciousObject... and the stranger experiences that may follow, But all the Interpretation that follows is really based on nothing. As the arrow can not be turned around no solid conclusions can be drawn about where it came from. An experience no matter how 'Non dual' is still only an Object O had by ? This is In no way meant to devalue the experiences had by all the ?'s of people here, as they are great. Realising that ?/you are behind everything or maybe unseperatable from all the O is great. Acknowledging the Mysterious/unknowable nature of ? also leaves no room for grasping so hopefully [but unlikely] that will settle the Buddhists down. Great Respek!

Hi steve , I like the top films but I did not mention Irreversible as I hope no one ever watches it. To me it seemed the only point of the horrible rape was to justify showing some horribly graphic violence. To me it has no artistic value whatsoever and is a scar on western civilisation. Our decadence has peaked and now we face the decline.... lol, sorry to get political on you there... Seth.

Simple Jack seems to be doing his best to replace Vajrahridaya's mysterious absence in this thread! :lol: I wondered how long It would take for someone to try to make the thread go Buddhist

The Holy mountain [one of my all times favourites] twists my guts around at points. For some reason scenes where the Hero/Heroine have no hope of winning, but put them selves on the line for others totally get me. Like when Eyoine [or however you spell it] fights the ring wraith in lord of the rings... Pollansky's The Tenant, made me feel like my central nervous system was being dragged out by hooks over several hours. I was literally convulsing when the movie reached Its climax. I am not sure if that movie would work on a small tv with distractions around. As far as Erotic charge goes, has anyone seen The Lover? wow! Yep to Emerald Forrest as well, Outrage, heart jubilation... I guess all 'end of a culture' movies are Intense, last samurai, dances with wolves, and Holocaust [sort of an end] movies... American Beauty the first few times I watched it had many levels of differing intense emotion including expansiveness which is rare in cinema for me. Bad Boy Bubby - Australian genius heheh, brilliant and Intense. The Note Book, totally sappy but I loved it. The Cook The Thief His Wife and Her Lover? Way Intense... I found the Violence in the last scene of Rambo 4 quite overwhelming...

as I to grew up in a Christian fundamentalist cult, I have spent a lot of time learning how to converse with them. 1, I always honestly express that I want 'Truth' and to walk a righteous path much more than any beliefs I or them may hold. 2, I welcome them to prey for me [or with me], as If Lord Christ is truly the Way, then I want to follow him solely. 3, I tell them that when I ask for any or even the tiniest sign from christ/god all I really get Is a deeper sense of conection to Divinity as I experience It. 4, I do not personally believe that I need Christ or any mediator between myself and the Divine, as I follow God as I feel it, but am willing to change if the divine shows me... 5, The 'God' I feel is a constant source of 'Good' and when I follow it's guidance, my decisions result in, better deeper relationships, more honesty, less selfishness and greater virtue... 6, If what I call God is really a satanic Influence then please pray for me now to dispell these demons, that I may enter the true path... Them- "prey prey mumble mumble" Me- "nope I can still feel God is with me" 7, I tell them I just do not think God feels it's important that I be a Christian. 8, I do not know if I believe Jesus even existed, 9, No matter how much a prophesy looks like its being fulfilled, its far too easy to make any number of events fit a single prophesy, so its no real Indicator of anything. 10. There is no way that the bible is the literal word of God, or it would not have contradictions in it, such as Judas's two deaths. One by hanging himself, one by walking over a field and having his entrails fall out. I have had many Christians try to tell me that both happened simultaneously, so I ask them to practice the Honesty they preach and not try to stretch obviously incompatible details just to win an argument. As the bible is therefore not the literal word of God I would Never put it between myself and Divinity, and have no real Interest in learning about it. 11, of course I believe in evil/sin but its root is Ignorance of God, not Satan. Like darkness is simply absence of light. Basicly a conversation like this with a fundy goes for several Hours. They will pass through denial, outrage, heated disbelief, incredibility, frustration and then finally a weird kind of acceptance mixed with a sense of respect and an "ill pray for you still" For me I feel totally honest In this conversation, and I believe they respond very well to that. I do want truth above all else, and wish to be truly Virtuous in how I live. This Christians can empathise with. The other stuff tends to confound them as they can not apply all their usual conversation traps to me. water off a ducks back. So far even the most recalcitrant dogmatic Christians I have met have fallen before this tactic and given up on trying to convert me or sometimes to even be willing to converse about religion with me. I personally Love having this conversation. I do not know, I just love watching existential confusion mark a face lined with a lifetime of rigid belief. They are the main points I use that I can remember... Have fun

Hi first, Hi Then what!? the Hermetic Tradition is wonderful! My primary background has been Kashmir Shavism {a school of Tantra}, But my other Great inspiration on the way has been the Hermetic/perennial tradition. In fact part of the reason I stayed with Tantra so long was that It is so incredibly similar to the Hermetic perspective, and is still a 'Living' tradition. I used to believe that the Hermetic tradition was dead, [no real teachers left who can transmit it] so I stuck with Tantra. I no longer believe It is a dead tradition, just so few good teachers available, yet within it [over many years] I have found the most astonishing teachings, that parallel and sometimes enhance the deepest oral teachings I have received. My dream is to see the Hermetic tradition fully restored, for us westerners whose psyche it is so native too, In all its Glory. We are talking about the tradition that pretty much began Art, Philosophy, science, religion, navigation, magic, ethics and medicine as we know them In the west. A book you may enjoy which hints at a lot [enough if you can understand] would be 'The Secret history of the world' by Jonathan Black. another is 'The Perennial Tradition' by Norman D Livergood. But, what if I may ask are you finding creepy and dark? Have Fun. Seth.

Of course there are empirical results we can rely on every time, like potasium chloride and red phosphorous will explode when put together. Its just how it is. Science is only a problem when It becomes fixed and dogmatic. Science is also a measurement criteria that is constantly evolving, unlike religious or many metaphysical perspectives. This should be seen as a good thing, as it allows us to keep updating and learning, rather than stagnating under someones untested, written Law. Often this loosness, say where scientists happily discard yesterdays 'truth' in favour of a newly discovered 'truth', is used as a weapon against them in an attempt to discredit them. If anything the fact that the theory's keep updating should show how good the scientific paradigm is, as a system capable of evolution. That said, I still get frustrated at dogmatic science, when it starts to believe its current understanding is going to be 100% true forever. Fortunatly they have the scientific process to protect them from their own dogmatic One truth paradigms - which are probably just cultral echoes of the old religious one truth belief. Also being a metaphysician I tend to believe that the Rational mind [and thus science] was a crucial development in Human evolution. Before this advance we existed in the pre rational mind set, which although probably had some great things going for it, also ment that If someone rocked up and said Muhumed [peace be upon him] just flew round a mountain on a horse, or Krishna held up a mountain with one finger, I would probably believe him. I also tend to believe that we are evolving towards a new consciousness centered around knowing and other cool stuff, but this will in no way make the rational obslete. If anything each new stage enriches or further enlightens the prievious processes. Anyway thats enough blah from me, lol.

Hi Kate I have been meaning to read that book at some time. What are you getting out of it? It sounds like you like it. Somatics seems to have some strong similarities to aspects of Tantra, so once I have finished my counselling course I would like to do some study with them...

Just follow yourself at your pace making your noises in your posture. The more you do it the easier it gets to know what you want to do when... Standing, sitting rolling round, lying still, fast, slow, rythmic, chaotic, whatever... Good evocative music is great, that has many varied moments...

Argh! such convoluted questions... First for some background, my K awakening was not In a traditional school, but happened when I was 19 as a result of doing at least 6 hours of meditation a day, without fail, for many many months, possibly close to a year at that time, but I can not remember exactly. I had also been doing long fasts, and locking myself away to pray, chant and meditate for days/weeks at a time without ceasing. I had no guidance, and do not know where I got the energy for the extremes I put myself through. I was very Inspired by Yogananda's book. All the meditations I did were from books I had read. I have described the details of the awakening elsewhere, so to be quick I had an utterly mind expanding, Life and personality transforming experience over 6 months, that ended in psychosis. I recovered. Later that year I found a Kashmir Shavite Tantra school from Muktananda's Linage, [that was not related to gurumayai] and studied there extensively. I became good friends with the teacher, and eventually started teaching for him and helping run workshops. We lived together for a few years, and ran the K support groups. I did teacher training under him several times and now do some of the training of new teachers there. But back to Kundalini. Once Its reached the top, giving you an experience of cosmic consciousness, and yes, moments of omnicience, everything changes. On the first time up [which may take some time] There can be a lot of fireworks, Intense heat, crazy twisting serpent like sensations, horror and existential agony and bliss. From then on much of those phenomena cease [or tend to] but K is not finished with you. From now she works subtly and slowly but just as powerful. And she works with an intelligence and grace that is surprising. She starts transforming you on a personality level, opening your Intuition and subtle senses deeper and deeper. And she always knows when you are ready, but not necessarily when Its convenient for you lol. It is still challenging at times, and I have been known to shout occasionally "Bitch, gimme a break!" but Its never to much any more, nor to frequently. The other side is sometimes she is just such a gentle sweetness, that caresses one with love and bliss, disolving ones contractions, Into deeper and deeper openness. As for what she is, who can really say? The traditions themselves have different theorys. My tradition would say she is the Goddess [shakti], in her role as grace lifting us back out of Ignorance. It would also say that She is our dormant energy and Intelligence, freeing ourselves from Limitation and contraction. To describe that view properly, ShivaShakti [consciousness/energy] create a world of limitation and dive on in just for the fun of it. when in, Shiva becomes Jiva, or a limited powerless and Ignorant being [us] but Shiva can never be truly powerless, so that potential lies dormant until Its time again to stop dreaming and start waking up. Kundalini is that power. Another way of saying it would be that Spirit/Light condenses in a path down till it becomes Matter. Matter 'seems' to be solid and Inert but really has all the power of spirit in its core. At some point that energy gets sick of being trapped and decides to return - Kundalini. I have explored many systems and techniques for working with K, and there are some amazing ways to get It going, but, and thanks Hundun for bringing it up brother, I tend to think Shaking practice is the cream of the crop. There are a few processes that can be quicker, and are Highly valuable, but spontaneous shaking is also one of the best ways to manage K once she is up and going. Its such a safe practice. I have people over fairly regularly for 2-3 hour shaking sessions and I just cant sing its praises enough. Its like crisis averted every time [for whoever prompted the session] I am not sure what else to say? If someone has specific questions feel free to ask. Big Love

I would say a large percentage of creative Geniuses have been Gay men. We owe them a lot. We vilify and disparage them, because the Idea of Homosexual sex makes us feel uncomfortable, yet They have massively enriched our culture with their works. Respek!

Cool, my own thread! Sorry Alwayson, But I would 'Never' claim to be a kundalini master. I really doubt that I will ever be one, at least this time round, better luck next time? I Just think its funny when Robert Bruce claims to have activated it as far as it goes. He really has no clue. I do however come from an authentic Kundalini Linage [Kashmir Shavism], Have gone through the classical stages including some short experiences of Omniscience, and fairly frequently enter Unity {OM} I also helped run a K support group from my lounge room for years, where I got very good understandings of how to work with it. Far from Enlightenment that is.

His understandings are reductionistic and entirely based on his particular nervous system. His techniques will only work for a % of people who are similar in make up too him.

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