soundhunter

In the fascinating book The Continuum Concept which is a look at the parenting practices of stone age indians in the south american jungle, she would describe their lives pretty similarly actually. In the particular tribe she spent time with, they had MUCH leisure time, they did not work very much, no more than was necessary to survive. 3 hour work day sounds about right. Interestingly, they seemed quite "Taoist" in that they did not coerce any members to do anything, including children. People did their meaningful work, children ran around undisciplined like wild things, and joined in with their elders once they desired to be with the grownups. Though another fascinating book, Light at the Edge of the World by the author of Serpent and the Rainbow and a very well travelled ethnobotanist who has spent time with a very large range of tribal peoples describes different ways that different tribes lived, and some of them have horrible lives by any standards, where their lifespan is very short because they regularly stab each other, for instance. I think some early man lived better than we do, some not so much. Just as it is today, though our overcrowding and workaholic ways does seem to be killing much of what humans have traditionally considered to be fun..like access to nature and leisure time.

That's a good point. Another is that human beings benefit from touch and affection, even sleeping beside someone is likely to have health benefits, unless they snore atrociously and cause sleep deprivation in their partner.

Interesting stuff. Oxytocin surges that happen with breastfeeding are beautiful, I tandem nurse my youngest two and watch them fall deeply in love with each other when the nursed together, they play footsies and smile with their eyes, then when we stop we all have dopey, heavy eyed, blissed out grins together, same kind lovers have after a sensational kiss. I will miss this very much once I've weaned our youngest. I'm quite interested in this research, though wish I could find more articles on her in print form vs. video, quick search didn't show much but I checked quite briefly.

Byron Katie's personal story seems to illustrate an example of what I call enlightenment, she woke up with a profoundly different understanding of humanity, as if a light came on, that instant, off, then on. On her website she explains it on this page, scroll down to the "How The Work Began" to read her explanation. Basically, I've understood enlightenment to mean the end of suffering, which in normal human states, is as common a human condition as joy and love. I've found Byron Katie's "The Work" to be a useful process for sorting through some difficult interpersonal problems, though I found her new-agey explanations for things to be undigestible, however I think she is a good example of someone in modern times who's "enlightened" and find it interesting because she wasn't seeking to become so. She didn't start teaching as soon as this transformation happened, according to the more elaborate explantion in her book, everyone in her life was in awe of this transformation, she went from a bitter, angry intolerable biotch to a joyful person in complete peace with herself and everyone around her, and they began to ask her to help them to learn what she had learned to become this way. More and more people began to seek her out through word of mouth, and so it became a given that she would become a teacher/writer/flaky new age guru. I think we've all been around people that are more enlightened than others, whether or not they are absolutely enlightened, I've certainly been around people who radiate peace and a supernatural goodness that is uncommon in the average person we encounter. CowTao's explanation quoted below is sorta what happened to Byron Katie, who was living in a women's shelter in a psychological state as low as low can be, though she wasn't persuing enlightenment, it just happened when she was at an extreme emotional state of rock bottom. Cow Tao said: When one finally exhausts oneself from chasing after that which one has never lost, and decides one no longer has the energy to pursue this elusive and illusive thing called Enlightenment, that is the moment of awakening. It is like waking up to the realization that one has been clutching a piece of burning ember one's whole life.

Biff, it's nice of you to put up an avatar for our benefit

empty

This is the best wedding aisle action I've ever seen, SO FUN! (I'm no Buddhist, but seems to me that laughter and fun are pretty Buddhist)

I enjoyed your paper, it was very well written and sincere. Have been reading Alan Watts 'Tao the Watercourse Way" which illustrates an interesting contrast to the Taoism described by most of you here on this board, other than a few such as goldisheavy etc. Here's a quote: Yet I've seen it said here on this board that one is not a real Taoist if they are not practicing alchemy and energy work. I agree with Findley that there can't be official true teachings of Taoism because so many of the writings, philosophies and practices are contradictory, which to some of us, is the heart and beauty of philosophical/contemplative Taoism. What draws some people to Taoism is the contradictory philosophical angles, where many religions say GOD IS THIS...this is THE WORD Taoism to me anyways, has a beautiful way of avoiding absolutes. I can see this being lost, and twisted if there's official "true" taoism being taught to Westerners. I personally am learning a great deal by reading books, and reading and participating in online discussions with Taoists approaching things from different angles, perspectives and biases. In this day of the internet, where information is easy, one who is wanting to learn will sift through the crap, sift through the nonsense, and find the gems of wisdom that are abundant and available to anyone who seeks. Though I can see why one might need authentic teachings and guidance for the alchemy practices, or might want to study under accomplished teachers and perhaps there could be a way to help get some of these accomplished teachers in Asia online so that westerners can access them easier. But my concerns are that there is risk that these teachers could become dogmatic about what "true" taoism is, and that this dogma would have an ideal propaganda machine if it was a formal, and profitable "official" teaching of Taoism to westerners. (once again, just the ideas of a newbie who knows little)

I'm with the please don't circumcise your kid vote Here's an interesting documentary made by a Jewish guy exploring the whole thing, that's pretty well done. I've given birth three times and I learned with this last one (almost 18 months ago) that I could help the "Braxton Hicks" contractions by meditating and moving into them, softening my body into non resistance and letting the contractions go as long as they would without me interfering or moving. I believe this helped me into labor this last time and is worth trying frequently, but ultimate softening and relaxation are the important key, it's kind of like hypnobirthing, she has to feel the contractions and submit to them in her own silent inner space. Other things that help, going up and down lots of stairs, bouncing about on exercise balls, lots of sex since semen is a natural cervix softener. Too much nipple stimulation can cause fetal distress and this isn't good either so don't go overboard, just as too much Oxytocin, just do it frequently, lovingly and gently. Chiropracters can sometimes help, worth a try, and there is traditional chinese medicine tactics that can be used if you can find an experienced practitioner.

I'm in the get married buy house have kids season of life, and most of my offline friends, aquaintances etc are in this same season. Not so rare at all actually, all the relationships I know around me are equal. I live in a cool liberal minded off beat rural island where women are construction workers too! But even in Vancouver, and Victoria BC, two big cities where I know many married families with kids who are in my age group, equal relationships are the norm, anything other, such as dominate male led homes are what's rare. What attracts me to Taoism is a lack of what seems to be attracting longrhythm to it, if there is an emphasis on traditional gender roles in Taoism and a formal set of rules on how each should behave I will find myself a new path, but I've yet to find this emphasis and as a woman not interested in being submissive to my husband, as a feminist not interested in men determining my life for me, and as a mother to two little girls (and a son) I have found Taoism to be the least limiting spiritual path yet.

I'm orgasmic enough generally but did not experience this in childbirth even though I was expecting it to be beautiful and did the hypnobirthing practices to strive for pain free birth. They were not painfree particularly when pushing their heads out, I did however, experience my deepest most profound, blissful meditation that I haven't been able to approach since with my first child's birth, and almost as deep with the third child's. There is bliss to be found in childbirth, but I don't think it's likely that actual vaginal orgasms are ultra common, or to be expected as a norm. Before here I've been part of numerous online conception, birthing and parenting communities where we bared all details including things like cervical fluids, cervical position, pooping in childbirth etc so there was no shame about stuff, and this orgasmic birth has been discussed among other natural childbirthers who loved their birth, and it's not *that* common at all, even among other homebirthers/waterbirthers. Lucky for those it happens to though, and I agree with the maker of that video that hospitals could help to make birth a beautiful, rather than uncomfortable experience for most women with a change of approach and choices offered.

'Nothe4r vote for http://www.thetaobums.com/Why-Taoism-is-different-t5927.html, Taomeow's response there is my favorite post of all here.

This book is a humorous look at what Jesus was like as a teenager, and what he was up to in his missing years. The humor is pretty college level some of the time, some swearing, some farting, but much of it is really well researched and fascinating. Jesus and his buddy Biff/Levi hang out with some Taoists for awhile, and the Taoist characters are really cool. If you like humor, find religious history interesting and don't mind it blended with some fiction for the sake of an entertaining story I think you'll like this book. Lots of reviews on the Amazong link below, though most of the reviewer's don't mention the Taoist part. Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal

Marriage in my experience is not about the certificate. Marriage to me was the formal uniting of my husband and I as family, vs disposable boyfriend and girlfriend. The ritual, the ceremony, the celebration of our families coming together, was besides the birth of my first child, one of the two greatest days of my life. My husband values our marriage and would find nothing he could relate to in the anti marriage scene, he grew up with an intact family in a family centered European culture. I own a little cafe and daily, I listen to different people having different conversations with each other. I marvel at the way many older folks revere their spouses, the kind ways many decades-long couples act towards each other even when they are not in each other's presence, in the ways they speak about each other to others, to me. Marriage is the creation of family between non related individuals, the sacredness of this may not be important to many folks, and many families are fucked up just as many marriages are, but I don't agree with those anti women anti marriage sites that strive to marginalize it's sacredness and benefits. I don't think marriage is for everyone and it's great we live in the west where it's optional, a choice. But for many people it's an important human ritual and a cultural construct that is for the most part, a blessing and a stabilizing, wholesome and healthy way for human families to thrive.