freeform

It’s not that energy has a physical location. Things exist on several planes at once - there’s a physical aspect, there’s the energetic aspect and there’s a consciousness aspect. The Dan tien exist on all these levels at once - but physical is the one to focus on most in the beginning (and “beginning” is the first 3 to 10yrs of diligent practice)

The Dan tien is physical. The physiological functions are ‘internal’. Once the Dan tien is built, it engages and moves the ligaments and fascia-type tissues. That’s what makes it ‘Internal’ movement. Waist is external.

I did say ‘correct practice’. Obviously if you don’t do it correctly you’re not going anywhere. Actually there are plenty of ‘secrets’ in all kinds of practice. Everything from cooking to stone masonry. Not sure what you’re trying to say with this

Exactly as Taoist Texts says - it’s talking about the Dantien.

Do you think that this ‘someone really knowledgeable’ couldn’t be a teacher because it threatens her livelihood? I agree that there are many ‘secrets’ in the arts - most of the processes are completely counterintuitive and simply couldn’t be arrived at ‘accidentally’. However, I don’t agree that all teachers hold back techniques for the sake of money. Possibly the case with lower level teachers, but a true master has developed so far that it would take a lifetime (or more) for a student to get to the same level - even with all the secrets freely available. So for them it is a joy to see the arts alive and well in their students. These things are dying out! The nature of of these arts is that it takes many years of correct practice to begin to show any skill in them. It’s like any other skilled endeavour - practice, practice, practice. In reality 99% of students of the arts simply don’t want to make the kind of sacrifices necessary. Most just chase after experiences... Or just think these arts are ‘cool’ and like to feel part of the culture... Or they’re looking for some stress relief and health improvement. Or they just rather casually play around with stuff from books and videos without committing the time, energy, expense and discomfort that it takes to develop. That’s the reason there are so many ‘empty’, ‘outer door’ schools - it gives ‘casual’ students some of the above, without requiring true commitment. But the true masters that I have met are very keen to find students of real commitment who’ve done the necessary fundamental work to be able to begin to benefit from work at the later levels. Some even actively seek out students actually capable of receiving instruction at the intermediate levels.

Ok - but what is all this for? Just exploration? Or is there some goal you want to achieve?

What is your plan of action?

This is the result of correct training. ‘Full’ and ‘alive’ are pointing to very specific milestones. “Waist” in the quote above is either faulty translation or faulty understanding.

Every tradition will have a fundamental ‘wuji’ posture that would build the correct principles into your body. If it doesn’t have one, it is not a ‘classical’ tradition - and more often than not is just a modern ‘re-interpretation’ of Qi gong. It’s perfectly normal to be shifting and making slight adjustments as you stand. A photo would highlight what you need to work on to a certain extent. Although I understand that not everyone would want their photo on an Internet forum! In the first 3 to 10 years of training, there’s no need to focus on energetics. Get the shapes, alignments and principles right and the energetics will take care of themselves. But it is very tricky to get these shapes and alignments right as they’re slightly different for each individual... and they need to change as the body changes... if you’re off by even a little bit, then the whole thing is compromised... it can be extremely subtle... hence the need for a good teacher.

Actually - Is there a way for you to post a photo of you in your wuji posture?

Yeah there are many terrible teachers. It’s a real shame. But unfortunately, the nature of these arts require a teacher for any progress to be made.

Good luck and constantly guard against delusion if this is what you wish to do.

I’m no Chen expert, but that video looks like an extremely well done external representation of an internal art. I can’t see any true internal mechanics in her performance. To study something as intricate as taiji, you certainly need a teacher. Unfortunately China is not a good source of teachers of internal arts anymore. But there are many scattered in south east Asia - Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand etc.

You need a teacher for this. A book or DVD can’t help. You need to develop all the correct qualities in your body - which are several steps before what you’re seeking. A teacher would be able to see to what degree you have any of these qualities and what you need to work on.

Sensitivity to Qi is interesting. One of my teachers actually decreases the sensitivity in some of his beginner students! This really surprised me at first. In fact, it turns out that in the beginning stages, feeling Qi is completely counter productive. Because it focuses the mind in the wrong place (sensations) rather than on Realease and Listening (Song and Ting) We rarely actually feel Qi directly... we normally feel the effect that Qi is having on our body. Others have mentioned the common sensations. For me it was mostly heat, pressure and vibration. But these sensations happen in the background as a result of (eg) standing in the correct posture. Secondly the Qi of an untrained person will be very different to the Qi of someone who has trained correctly for a while. The Qi of a later stage qigong practitioner will be a lot ‘thicker’ and more consolidated. A Qigong master should have the Qi many times that of a ‘normal’ person. When it moves in the body you can feel it like a viscous honey slowly flowing under pressure with your tissues being affected as it moves. When normal people feel subtle things in their body it is generally not Qi - it is just sensations in your nerves under the action of your awareness. For example, if you focus your awareness on the palm of your hand for 5 minutes, all sorts of sensations come up. This is not Qi. The beginner level Qi gong practitioner will feel the side effects of Qi. This is the heat, pressure, vibration stuff - less subtle than before... This is the sensations in your nerves under the action of Qi. At a later stage in training you’ll begin to sense Qi in a very different way. It becomes very unsubtle. The easiest way for a non practitioner to get a sense of how unsubtle Qi really is, is to get a Qi transmission from a master. This is when you’ll feel a range of sensations - like extreme pressure that feels as if it might crush your bones. Or strong electric shocks moving through your body... similar to accidentally touching an electric fence, but moving inside the body. Strong sensations of heat. Uncontrollable convulsions, shaking and spasms. The sensation of strong Qi is generally really rather unpleasant! I remember beginning to finally touch and collect Yin Qi in my Dan tien. I made the mistake of telling my teacher how pleasant it felt. He had a look and explained that I’m just skimming the surface. He did a short transmission and these pleasant waves of gentle pressure turned into bone crushing pressure going up my legs and into my abdomen where my insides started to contract and convulse like an alien is about to burst right out. I couldn’t take a crap for days

The Kunlun system is very different to most other traditions. The emphasis is on the ‘downwards flow’. The whole neigong process is flipped upside down. You start with the Upper Dan Tien and when that develops sufficiently, it moves down. Often you develop the Yin Qi before the Yang Qi. It works on the central channel pretty much straight away. I trained with Max for a while. Spent some time at his house etc. But I still don’t really understand the process. I believe Max actually went through the normal neigong process, and then ‘discovered’ this reverse method. The method is heavily dependent on transmission, empowerments and then letting go. The spontaneous movement aspect of the art is actually common to most (authentic) neigong systems. There are exceptions of course. It’s one of the fastest ways of clearing the channels on very deep levels. It’s known as Zifa Gong in most traditions. Its important to realise that the Zifa Gong process is a process of clearing. It’s not spiritual or mystical. The movements, chanting, mudras, postures that come up are to be ignored or treated as irrelevant. This is just debris clearing through. The process needs to move towards stillness. It’s very easy to get attached and trapped in the process. There are many schools where people do zifa gong for decades. This is a major error. For many people, experiencing zifa gong for the first time is confirmation that Qi is real, that neigong is a real, unsubtle process - and they get fixated on this part of the training. In reality it’s an early to mid stage of development within neigong and as long as you progress correctly, it comes to an end.

Are you free to say what the changes are?

Mare you calling me old!?

I’m a fan of Liu Yi Ming’s harsh (but fair) writings I’m not sure if you’re directing this at me... I did say that I’ve never met an enlightened teacher, let alone an immortal... let alone 4 immortals!! But maybe I've misunderstood your subtext? P.S. An appropriate quote from Liu YiMing: “Read the scriptures but do not persist in being obsessed with them. If one were to be obsessed with the scriptures forming conjectures with its meaning, relying on one’s preconception, the mistake is great, discard the scriptures, without argument, while it is a big mistake, similarly obsession with the scriptures, not seeking a wise master, is an even bigger mistake, discarding books and obsession with them are all wrong. If one were to be obsessed with books for Tao, one has been inflicted with bookish bedevilment, in not seeking a wise master the great task is jeopardized, one must study carefully, distinguish the right and wrong, seek out a wise master to confirm them, only then can one come to understand Tao.”

I see sarcasm is flourishing outside of Europe too now

Yes exactly. The texts are to accompany direct learning. There is also another curious aspect to this. In some traditions there’s also a type of Shen level transmission that works kind of like a ‘key’ or password for understanding lineage texts. When one receives this transmission, reading relevant classical texts suddenly becomes understandable on a very visceral level. Apparently it feels like re-reading a story you heard in childhood - all the understanding is there already, and the text just brings it to the fore. Not something I’ve personally experienced though. No - my teacher isn’t at that level. I doubt I’ve ever met anyone enlightened - let alone immortal. But I’m sure there are some around.

My primary teacher is from a branch of the Dragon Gate tradition. Although I did train for quite a few years in another (quite different) lineage. I’ve yet to come across any truly authentic alchemy teachers in any temples. Although often the bigger processes do need to be done in seclusion. Completely agree - these terms are quite precise and very much context dependent. Guessing at the meaning of these texts is completely counter-productive. Even if you work out the right interpretation, the application would not work without a teacher that has gone before... Although there’s always an exception to the rule

Yup Once you hang out in these circles, doors tend to open. Mind you - only one will teach me - the other two teach my teacher. I’m not far enough in my training to receive instruction from them. Not sure I ever will be!

Actually I was quite surprised to find that most high-level masters tend to live in society. Daoist ones that is. They all tend to look very ‘normal’. All the ones mentioned above actually live in cities. Although they have all had long term retreats away from society for certain parts of their training.

Hmm - one of them does teach openly in public. But I’ll need to ask whether they want their personal training discussed in public. Two others I know avoid contact with anyone that’s not ‘introduced’ to them. The masters who’re diligently working in the mid to later stages of alchemy tend prefer to stay out of the public eye. All the ones I know focus almost all their time on training. I can say that at these stages of alchemy the milestones for demonstrating attainment seem pretty ‘out there’ and unbelievable to most people outside this world. So it makes sense to keep it all behind closed doors to avoid all the distractions and mess that comes with public scrutiny.