freeform

you practice both. So start with level 1, then without closing down or losing the energy feeling move onto level 2... when finished close down. dont start level 2 unless you've been doing the practice for at least 6 months.

YES!

Oh I didn't mean to suggest that you should carry on with kunlun - I think that whatever decision you have made is exactly the right one to have been made!! I was just suggesting that real, unconditional Love is as great a cure as there is for 'creepiness'. I would really like to hear more from others that had actual problems that can be directly linked to the practices done correctly... I know Gloria had problems with the practice, mainly caused by incorrect use of the RP technique. And Scotty had problems of ill health come up when he practised (which could just be a part of the 'process'). Dizzydazzle mentioned some energetic problems - I would be interested in his perspective... Personally I have had few problems... I still get ill though... I've been coughing up a lot of stuff and my sinuses keep 'clearing'... emotionally it has actually helped me a lot! I have not had any 'visitations' or anything 'creepy' like that... I remember I was once planning to buy a laptop - and as I like being very thorough and researching carefully anything I bring into my world, I found a forum dedicated to this specific laptop... searching through the forum all I would find would be problems - pretty much every post was about some kind of problem or some kind of solution - every now and then there would be a post about how happy someone was with theirs... this usually was a rather excited, not very in-depth post - no real information... very quickly it would be knocked down to the bottom of the pile... So basically it became apparent that this was the most problematic laptop you could get... untill I met a few people that had it - were perfectly happy with it, didn't have any problems and had no need to go on the forums... it suddenly dawned on me how skewed the impression I got from the forum was... most people that have nothing major to report just don't bother trying to communicate that. (this is something to bare in mind - but of course the problems themselves need to be aired too) Something funny just came to mind to illustrate 'creepiness' - I was reading an account of an experience by a Bushman hunter that he was propelled straight up a giraffe's anus and into its guts - so as well as funny, I suspect this could be quite scary, as well as creepy to most of us... The hunter, however celebrated inside the giraffe's intestines by dancing and shaking... the belly is where the giraffe keeps its n/om (qi) and this was a symbolic connection between the hunter and the giraffe's power... he received a gift... would I see this as a gift if this happened to me?

I had much the same reaction as Ian did. Penetrating the depths of who you are and being in great health pretty much seems like you've already accomplished the goal of many schools of spirituality - why add any formal practice to that!? you should teach instead. Please don't apologise for being negative - I'm of the opinion that negativity is as essential as positivity - it creates balance. Firstly yes - there is certainly a community feel with the Bushmen and similarly with the shakers of St Vincent... even their jobs and roles in the community are decided by callings from the spirit - when the entire community supports this kind of work it makes it seem that the life of someone who chose to awaken a little smoother... I believe that spontaneous practice can certainly be done by someone living in the modern world with all the positivity and negativity that surrounds us (tbh I believe it's the mind trying to trick us to get back in control - "if only X was different then everything would be perfect" this is a classic mind game and it never stands up in court ) Life is how it is - there is always as much good as there is bad, it's just always flowing, changing, shifting. It seems to us like we, as modern people living a modern life have a more difficult time with this because that's just what our minds have learnt to do - to control - to control our perceptions, our reactions our environment... when we truly let go and allow spontaneity to take us we are going right against the mind... what we thought was important can become irrelevant - what we thought as 'lucky' can seem unlucky - the whole world is turned on its head.... who you think you are is extremely resistant to who you really are... this is the case with a lot of other spiritual work that 'works' - not just Kunlun. And who you think you are is so entrenched that it is extremely painful and scary when it actually starts to transform - I have felt like I'm going insane, and I've felt like I'm becoming more sane than ever... and again - this is not just with kunlun - this is the case with any other effective, transformative spiritual practice. When we choose to awaken, we chose a difficult road - this is not just fun and giggles (although a lot of that too)... it was stated on the kunlun site and book that you will face aspects of yourself that are difficult to face... and this is so true and I think it's necessary to make this clearer... because of my other 'practices' I knew that this would be the case, but I realise that if you're really unprepared to have your world turn on its head, then it's a very frightening experience. Are all spontaneous practices/lineages equal? I dunno. I'm really not in a position to judge. I have researched the spontaneous thing to death and in most cases it has been said that you will surely go through a 'process' - sometimes of complete confusion, of fear and of difficulty - that's if you're doing it right Practitioners of Ratu Bagus' spontaneous shaking have to go through a 'process'... each is very personal - a lot of the time illnesses show up, vomiting diarrhoea, fevers, chills and many other symptoms show up... you're just meant to carry on shaking through it all - it's all part of the process... then emotional and mental aspects show up and get processed... The practice area is filled with all kinds of spirits, old thought forms and karmic connections seeking resolution... this is what could be in store for people practising any quick path... resolutions need to happen over a much shorter, more intense time rather than taking it calmly and slowly over lifetimes... The mind's nature is sticky - we see negativity and the mind sticks to it, tries to explain it, make it better, or ignore it or argue for or against it - basically anything to make it seem like we're in control again. We come across some good effects and the mind sticks to that - we want more of it, we want to recreate it or re-live the experience. These are all trickster-based actions. Yoda - regarding teachers tapping into different frequencies - yes you're quite right they definitely do... not only tap into different frequencies but also express the frequency in a different way... regarding whether they're 'equal' - which one is 'better' or 'worse' - i think this might be a very simplistic way of looking at it... I have a different personality than my work colleague but better or worse or more benevolent or more evil - this just doesn't enter the equation for me... Firstly I'm not at a level to be able to tell what is what on a very different level... however, I have my own ideas on how to 'overcome' both actual problematic energies and whatever paranoid delusions our mind likes to throw up as a defence for it's little empire of control. 1) Love and compassion! Aim for that - always aim for the Big Love - not emotional love, not physical bliss not the 'light' or the 'fire' but overwhelming, unconditional Love. Tapping into Love will bring all that is needed to you and all that is needed for all you relationships (both worldly and other-worldly) 2) Relationships! Yes I think a community is important - we need support, we need a mirror for feedback on what is going on with us... this doesn't need to be a commune, it can be a moment that you share with the store clerk or colleague at work - pay attention to all your relationships and you will notice more of them, and you will learn more about yourself. Of course it is also important to establish relationships with people on a similar path... Max would always mention that we must feel like we're in a family. I personally have found a huge relief and help with Jerry Stocking and his work, he knows what it's like to have 'who you think you are' slowly dissolve and de-construct into 'who you really are'. 3) Your inner teacher... That is, tap into your True Self - don't channel 'higher beings' or whatever, channel your True Self and allow it take take the reigns... it's hard and scary. Love has a lot to do with this too... Regarding Max - I have felt his compassionate, unconditional Love - not in anything he did or said or taught, but in the spaces in between. Love is the most important part of this work - as the Bushmen elders say - bring your heart up to your mind. One must see through Love, experience through Love... widom and power and all that may or may not be a part of this, but focus on Love, because that's the surest direction. Yoda, I'm so sorry you had such frightening experiences. I'm sure a part of you wanted the cool, strange stuff to manifest, but when it does it's becomes more than we can handle - I know this very well!! (pshh - women ) . 'Seriously' though - begin to allow some Love through and whatever the problem is, it can start to ease up... you can also use the Inner Smile to begin to bring Loving, compassionate energy into your body... when the body is full start to smile to all that is around you - the problems, entities, all the successes and failures, your family, friends and relationships.... after a time this becomes more spontaneous... This is the advice I would give myself if I was in your position

Sahaj, read some Bradford Keeney books.

Thanks BTW!

Maybe s/he's screening the calls!?

AugustLeo, Here's how I see it. A confirmatory experience involves two things - the experience and what it is confirming... so in cooking - I add a pinch of salt to the stew then I taste it to see if it's well seasoned. Or the same thing in chemistry. The confirmatory experience is always a confirmation of something - it's always a relationship, never just an experience. I can't speak much of alchemy, because I haven't gone through an alchemical process yet, but I have had confirmatory experiences of other practices. There is a practice I used to do a lot called Aspectics - it's very western kind of thing - take any aspect that comes up, ask it questions, with each question leading higher and higher up the chain until suddenly you pop out into profound emptiness. If you don't pop out into emptiness there's something left over. Similarly with the Inner Smile - I would smile to a part of my body until it actually smiles back - not me pretending or wishing that it's smiling back, but unexpectedly it just smiles back - that's another confirmation. I've had very unsteady glimpses of this body of water (the water being a tangible emptiness) at the crown - like a still, dark lake. Then I heard Mark Griffin talk about the lake at the crown as the source for the downwards flowing kundalini - suddenly it made sense. Bradford Keeney who is recognised as a very powerful healer and 'awakener' by the African Bushmen (who practice a similar form to kunlun) - he shares many confirmatory signs... such as receiving songs or gifts (such as a drum or a phone or anything) in dreams. Receiving a song is seen as a very important sign that you're connected to spirit. He also talks of vertical and horizontal lines (horizontal lines interconnect worldly things and vertical lines lead you up to God)... The confirmations and morph change with each cultural context. In the spiritual shakers of St. Vincent receive phone numbers - some receive a number that directly dials into God.

everyone learns their lessons in their own way. perhaps he needs to escape the world to realise that escaping the world is not the answer.

You sit down, then they come over, pull your head to one side and insert a worm into your ear. It's disgusting - don't do it!

I once met a man that lives in a little wooden shack, on a high hill, overlooking a huge forest. He looks after the forest - manages the wood (cutting down old trees, selling them on) has a small vegetable garden, gets paid and is respected, but has very little contact with others. In the summer he looks out for forest fires - this is his main role. This is in the south of france.

IMO - the mco is actually quite advanced - it's not something to 'start' with. You already have a lot of development in focusing your mind, and to start internal cultivation you need to develop your ability to sense internally. You need to increase your kinesthetic sensitivity. I would suggest starting with something simple - like the 8 brocades or Sonnon's intuflow. You can do it with a full focus on internal sensations... then start moving into the 5 animals/6 sounds... circulating the animals can actually open your mco naturally...

One of my teachers has come up with a fun idea. If you're unemployed, he will 'employ' you to do 'real' work - the work of spiritual growth. Check it out: www.realwork.org

I agree - I think the void is where it all arises from and returns to in a cyclical sort of way. I'm sure it's similar to many models - I particularly like how, for me, it reflects the microcosmic orbit flow...

What if you feel irreversibly changed and have no choice but to follow your own path - your path to full liberation?

Really interesting about this research and your thoughts, Trevcaru. I have a slightly different model. And the research seems to tie in with it. imagine two poles in the human - 0 (the formless, infinite) and 1 (the singular, finite). 1 is the world of thoughts and 0 is the world of emptiness - and in between we have the world of emotions and sensations. I believe all thoughts, intentions and the like originate in the formless (0) and move up tosensations/emotions and arrive at a thought (1). So the thought of "I want to be like my amazing uncle" starts out as a formless impulse - it can't be put into words at this point... as the impulse rises through the layers, becoming more finite as it moves, it becomes a sensation in the body, an emotional feeling and as it goes further up, several mind-stuff get attached - the impulse goes through 'the filter' to become recognisable as a thought - "I want to be like my amazing uncle"... so the filtering into word/thought-shapes happens quite far up, much nearer the 1 than the 0... Most people's awareness can really only access the world of 1.... some have access to the world of emotions (and I don't mean having emotions, I mean being aware of the emotion doing the thing that it does)... very few have access to sensations (which happen before full blown emotions) and an incredibly tiny minority have access down to 0.

The Inner Smile is great. you can smile very subtly. the physical smile has physical effects for me. Learn the inner smile (there are free instructions somewhere on Chia's site). Try that before the K1 session.

Happy mother's day, Sean!! oh... I mean happy birthday !! Hope your celebrations go something like this: 5_JmXCNPs6Y

Anyone else notice how as soon as the body is involved - all those things that seemed so amazingly important to the mind, suddenly don't seem as important or relevant any longer? Hence the humour and quietness that ensued. It's like taking a deep, comfortable breath. It's fascinating for me to see what happened on this thread. Suddenly it got so quiet here - what a relief. I notice exactly the same parallels in myself: First some thoughts come up and I take them so seriously, concentrate on them, think them through, just generally get very involved in the whole 'story' the thoughts present. Then suddenly I notice I'm straining - my breath feels 'held' and shallow, diaphragm stiff - there is tension in my jaw and neck and throat. So I begin letting these sensations come to the forefront of my awareness this gives me 'space', the tension diminishes as a spontaneous sigh arises and falls; I begin to feel like my awareness has more 'reach' - it can extend down to my lower body, even feet... and my mind is like "err... what was I thinking about?.... never mind - think about this instead!"... and the process starts over again.

Here's an idea. When writing in this topic - pay more attention to the feelings in your fingertips as they press the keys, the pressure on your butt that results from your weight resting on your seat. Perhaps also notice what your feet feel like - are you wearing socks? can you feel the texture of the material? - shoes? can you feel the pressure they exert? can you feel a pulse or blood moving in your feet? with more attention on all these sensations than on the thoughts you're so eager to express - just begin typing - without anything in mind, without having anything to say and see what comes up (you can edit it later, innit). As the words and thoughts bubble up and come out through your fingers, see if you can have more attention on the spaces in between the words - this might make it easier to feel your body as you type. This is what I am doing right now, as I type this. It's certainly a little slow, but at least I'm not a talking head with no body (and that is exactly how I feel when I read some of these more cerebral posts - I say 'feel' - it's actually more of an absence of all feeling) huuummmmm - that felt good.

Cat - your goat is in the post!

Why don't Taoist Immortals tell riddles? They don't know the answers. ... also - not quite a joke - but a song that should lighten any dark, serious moments a Tao Bum might have: GUcXI2BIUOQ

Smile, does the choice of metal have different effects or correlations? As in silver=yin/lunar, gold=yang/solar - platinum=??? would nano-sized powder be an advantage?

oh dear. you really think that's love? sounds to me a lot like power. I think the whole world runs on the power of Love - not your Love. Because it can't be 'owned' - not your Love - because it can't be 'given' or 'taken away'.