freeform

if we're talking about 'great taoist sages' (not 100% sure what that means) then I would agree with Lozen. I think it's a good idea to define the meaning of "intellectual knowledge"... for me it's certainly not the same as "cosmic intelligence" - although, as you've noticed, Yen, they do share the same word. In fact I think "intellectual knowledge" and "cosmic intelligence" are polar opposites. Just like 'intuition' is opposite to 'logic'. I feel that "intellectual knowledge" has to do with the outside and "cosmic intelligence" has to do with the inside. I also feel that the sages who wrote the I Ching would work hard to drop all "intellectual knowledge" so as to uncover "cosmic intelligence" which is always there and doesn't need to be learnt or accumulated from the outside. Actually that's a lie - I think that the ancient sages had very different constitutions to us - they certainly weren't so involved with this intellectual knowledge as we are and they had far easier access to the "cosmic intelligence" because their mind hadn't 'evolved' to the point that ours has. So in fact it's far more important for us to lose our "intellectual knowledge" than it was for them. Yen, you seem to read a lot - could be interesting to stop for two weeks and see what happens, maybe you'll see what zenbrook and I mean? I suspect you're an enneagram type 5? I have a lot of type 5 friends - all very, very intelligent when it comes to knowledge, but very vulnerable when it comes to feelings... Your dreams of flying resonate with this.

Thanks for your reply, Aiwei. I admit I dont take karma too seriously. It seems like the idea is trying to communicate something important, but for me it fails to deliver. Do good things and good things happen? Aiwei, I'm not sure I understood you correctly, but certainly what you wrote promted another interpretation I sometimes have about karma. Karma is my personal, accumulated 'stuff' - traumas, attachments, personas etc. all the stuff that makes me a 'me'. And clearing my karma is integrating this 'stuff' to the point that there is no seperation - there is no more 'me'. This is quite a useful concept for me... But when people say that having 'good karma' means that my cultivation path will be easier, and having 'bad karma' means my cultivation will be harder - this just baffles me... what does it mean? Whether my karma is good or bad, it's still karma - and it still seperates me - so it needs to be integrated, no? I have this sneeking suspicion that someone's little mind construed a usefull idea into a morality system to control the masses.

One thing I really dont get about karma is the good and bad thing... I mean, good and bad only seems to exist in the mind, at least for me - from what I've experienced through the body and the heart (emotion) there is always a balance of good and bad... "It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so." old Will knew it. so good deeds and bad deeds - who makes the judgement?

I completely agree, but ofcourse I'd never be able to articulate it in such a witty way - it always delights me how you type 7s make things so fun. I do, however, feel Beancurd may have something more to him/her than 'just' an observer, and that's what I was wondering about... That makes me a sage! (always dreamed of being a herb )

Do you mind saying what your injury is? we have a big knowledge base here, and I'm sure people will have some helpful ideas on how to rehabilitate your injury. I may have some ideas myself - (and it probably wouldn't have to cost a lot) Also our fellow Bum Karen might have some idea on what you can try to improve your diabetes - she's a tresure trove of health-related knowledge. Leidee, let us know how the excersises go - I must say that although this is fantastic for busy people that aren't interested in spending hours doing qi gong, the qi gong is far more powerfull. An analogy would be - Donna's routine is like a foreign language phrasebook, where-as learning qi gong is learning the full language and creating poetry with it. - saying that, I still use some of Donna's 'phrases' in my qi gong poetry.

You're quite right - when you wake up (again), you need a kind of 'nowness parent' someone who can see your soul even when you're still stuck with the ego. It's kind of hard being egoic when all the teacher's attention is on your soul. S/he can look through your 'stuff' and it can be scary/unnerving yet beautiful too. I'm warming to Adya, it's great that you have easy access to him. For me Jerry Stocking has the same appeal, although his approach is a bit different, more personal - though this means he reaches a much smaller audience.

do you realise how painfull NOW is? it's the safest yet most frightening place to be. If you are NOW, all the shaodow aspects, all the dearly loved illusions are bared. The question is - surrender to the pain or surrender to the illusion of comfort? Also something else I'm discovering - to get to NOW, the only way is through relating to another. deeply.

Beancurdturtle, can you explain what you mean by Philosophical Taoism. You seem to have a much broader perspective on the meaning than I do - to me it seems rather 'mental' - or mind-based - or knowledge based etc. You seem to imply something more than that, but I can't see it. If I had to pigeon-hole my approach to Taoism, I'd call it Practical Taoism - although I don't really consider myself a Taoist - more of "Mystical Agnostic" What does 'Practical Taoism' mean to you and how is Philosophical Taoism different to it? thanks. PS - I love your avatar!

The key is to start with something small and quick and do it every day. For this purpose I couldn't praise Donna Eden's energy routine highly enough. It's a really excellent drill to do - it only takes 5 to 10 minutes and has many benefits - in fact I would recomend this routine to anyone who doesn't practice qi gong... it's seriously powerfull and can be taken quite deeply. here is a link to a youtube video of the routine.

"huh?" that's my favourite

Hagar, what I might try is: after getting into the relaxed qi gong state, I'd try and establish that connection - if it doesn't work, I would treat it as an opportunity to get into closer contact with my body (instead of getting annoyed with the body for not being open enough) - this change of intention is important. Next I would simply ask "what part of me is responsible for the blockage of the ming men", after asking wait a little, with all your attenton on the body - you wll get some kind of answer from your body - it's now up to you to focus on this 'something' untill you get its nature (is it a blockage, what kind of blockage, where exactly, what memories are connected, etc etc) - then you gently say hello to this part and sit with it - once it's used to your attention you can ask what the intention of the blockage is (usually safety and protection) - ask it what kind of energy it needs to feel safe and protected (or whatever the answer was)... etc. some people I've explained this kind of thing to tend to imagine these parts as some colourfull cartoon characters in your body talking with you. In fact there is no imagination involved - all the questions/answers/details/information are felt experiences - they may have visual or auditory memories attached, but you need to concentrate on the felt experience - and never 'think' for them. This method has been working wonders for me - not only are all those hard-to-reach, deeply entrenched, shy and wounded parts of me ready to communicate, some of them transform really easily and leave me with gifts I never imagined I had.

You can ask questions in different ways - you can ask questions to 'add to knowledge' - you can ask questions to 'change current knowledge' - and you can ask questions to 'stop knowing'. Each one is usefull in it's own way - for spirituality asking questions to stop knowing is usually the most productive (or reductive ) fatherpaul's question is masquerading as a question to add to knowledge - and that's how most have treated it, however knowing Paul, it's actually reductive - I feel more confused now than before the question was asked. Confusion is an underestimated state - couple it with curiosity and you have a state that's perfect for leading a spiritual life. And it certainly is entertaining - not just entertaining.

You know what, Cat? I had the same exact problem - resistance all the way. One day though, I didn't put any pressure on myself - I saw something on tv that made my chest and throat tighten - normally I just go yuk! and try to get rid of it somehow (talking in my head, trying to change my focus and ignore it, blame the feeling etc.) But this time I had no intention of changing it or getting rid of it or of 'healing' it or anything - I was in an exploratory mood. I noticed the feeling, noticed what it actually feels like, where the tightness is, the quality of the tightness etc. then I just said "hello, I know you're there". (and meant it in that way - rather than thinking of it as step 1 of the process). I immediately felt a little releaf and also felt like I was talking to a kid that's been ignored for far too long. I then said - "is it ok to sit with you for a little while" - it eased up a little more and I just sat with it in emptiness for a few minutes. Then I had to go, and as soon as the thought of going crossed my mind that part of me started clinging and it felt very wrong to go at that moment. So I said "I'm sorry I have to go - I'm glad we met and I would like to spend some more time with you later, if it's ok" it felt much better at that point, I thanked that part and went about my business. It's only after this experience that I realised how much easier it is than what I thought. The pressure I used to put on myself and the part I was working with often made that part more resistant and it made me more forcefull and I would just lose it. It has become much easier to communicate after that event, my body and these parts are much more trusting. Ofcourse resistance still shows up, and I've found it amazingly effective to treat the resistance as another part - say hello to it! find out what it's concerns are, make it feel heard and accepted and it transforms into a gift (usually). You have to treat them like shy little animals - you have to be really gentle, calm, no judgements or pre conceptions - you need to move slowly and give it space and time to get comfortable with your attention on it. Forget your tools or your need to do anything specific - do you use tools when you build a relationship with a child? ofcourse not - all you want to do is get to know it, and all the rest will open up automatically. I'm sure some of you will find it quite funny that I actually talk with aspects of myself - and to be honest it probably is very funny indeed. What's less funny, however, is if you ignore these aspects, and you lead your life thinking you're in control, while these mistreated, unheard, shy parts of you actually make all your decisions for you. Always keeping you a safe distance from the present. (or a safe distance from that pollen )

Allergies are often because of unbalanced earth and overactive tripplewarmer - learning a few tripple heater sedation points to massage can help apparently (I dont have allergies, but my girlfriend does) - I made her massage her temples when she had stuffy sinuses, then repeatedly using the hand to brush her hair back behind the ears - this tends to cool her down a lot. (this is how you sedate an over-active immune resopnse) Regarding the wart - hypnosis could be good, but how about communicating with it seriously! It's not so hard, is fun and very rewarding! you have to be gentle though - get a felt sense of the wart (or ask where in the body the source of the wart is) once you get a felt sense you need to notice it's shape and colour and perhaps give it a name, or at least name the feeling that it gives off. Check back with the body to see if the shape, colour, name etc are correct - only take answers from the body not the mind (body answers are usuall much slower, less exciting, but more surprising!) Then you say hello to it and smile. Once it's ready to be witnessed ask if it's ok just to sit with it? if it is then sit with it for a while, then ask it a question: what do you want for me? or something along those lines - when you get an answer just start exploring different ways for that part to behave. Or ask it what kind of energy it needs to feel complete - then have that kind of energy emerge from the dan tien and fill that part (not to get rid of it, or to force it, but just coz you're nice ) Explore some possibilities - when you feel you're done, and that part feels complete enough to stop giving out warts etc, you should ask if there is any part of you that isn't happy for that part to be complete and leave - I have a feeling that there may have been some resistance to the wart (it's ugly, unclean etc etc) and in that resistance is usually the message and the gift the wart brought to you - communicate with the resistance in the same way. I know it seems long winded, but it shouldn't take more than 30 - 40 minutes and you get a lot of brownie points from your body for communicating instead of trying to get rid of some part or manifestation of it. (did i mension that you can use this with allergies too?! - also traumas, emotions, blockages etc)

First there is shadow (the empty cup) Then there is light. what's not constant? why less than nothing? this leads into privatives... First there is cold (zero kelvin) Then there is heat. the shadow, space, cold are the cauldron for the possibility of light, mass, heat. another thought on privatives - Pietro, maybe you should try it out with using the human body as the instrument of measurement? then "cold" and "heat" take on a different meaning.

I suspect it's probably coupled with establishing a stronger root to your inner earth. I wonder if astranaughts did some dilligent qi gong, learn to connect deeply with their inner earth - would they lose less bone mass?

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When I went deeply into LOA, I realised that it is not about wanting or needing or attracting even. Like Cameron I was torn between 'everything is perfect as it is' and 'you can get what you want' - very contradictory. LOA as I see it now is like a lesson - a playfull lesson. In fact it has the above contradiction built in - and the final aha of the lesson is the integration of the contradictions. LOA only really works if you lose mental attachments to wanting/needing etc. It's a way of experimenting with your consciousness so that you can learn that wanting external material things is pointless - because there is a limitless amount of whatever you want in the universe and the act of wanting is what's blocking you from having the object of what you want. If you're a kid and all you want is ice cream, then through doing LOA you realise that you can have limitless amounts of ice cream you get bored... then you want a bicycle - the LOA tells you the world is full of bicycles, so you want something else - and you carry on wanting new things untill the lesson drops into you and you realise that wanting these external things doesn't bring any happiness or feeling of completion or satisfaction. Through playing the game of LOA you slowly become accustomed to feeling that the universe really is bountifull and will provide you with anything you need. Eventually you are left with the feeling that you already have everything in this moment - there is nothing that could ruin or improve this moment. This is followed by this feeling of 'letting go' - letting go of needs and desires, the need for control, preference and judgement. For me the lesson is not - 'you can control the universe to get what you want' - but 'you are the universe and you already have everything you want'. In the beginning though, what I wrote above is obscured, and probably sounds pretty silly 'in real life'. In the beginning the LOA brings your attention to your desires, beneath your surface desires are other desires, beneath those desires are more desires and so on - you learn to go deeper down the chain of desires, and it becomes obvious that the deeper you go down the chain the deeper you go into yourself... eventually you reach the 'ultimate desire' (and every 'desire chain' always leads to this 'ultimate desire') - the ultimate desire is always to become 'complete' or 'whole'.

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Firstly I must blush lol... and then I can explain what I've found after experimenting with 'why' for a few days! So you already see the mental level 'why' - I didn't know 'why' could work on any other levels, so I tried - I experimented with myself, my girlfriend and two of my friends. I tried 'why' on middle dan tien, heart level - I had a thought/feeling about who I am, then I asked several versions of 'why' (but on the heart level) - 1)"why did I have this thought?", then 2)"why do I have this thought about myself" finally 3)"why am I asking why" - normally when asked at the mental level I get visual and wordy interpretations that lead to more words and more interpretations - asking the heart was, ofcourse different - a lot more kinesthetic feeling, remembered (rather than 'constructed') visual representations. so with question number 1) I got a very thorough stream of emotional information, parents, ancestors, life experiences all flashed up... 2) Similar, but more about my individuated self, a lot of tightness in the solar plexus 3)didn't work - it became a 'strange loop' and I got no answer. I tried the same questions on the lower dan tien level, but that was as productive as asking the ocean 'why?' I found that when asking why (about anything), even on the middle dan tien level, my mind was drawn in, I couldn't be in the present... Asking others why had a terrible effect - eg. my gf came home saying "I feel tired" I looked at her and asked why? - all her energy went up to her head, she was answering whilst making herself more tired (I could see it) and getting very intertwined in the 'drama' that the mind creates, after that it was hard to bring her back to the present... I tried it with my scientifically minded friend - he raised an oppinion and asked why he had this oppinion - so he came up with some story that was obviously a mental and rather limited perspective (the original oppinion was not so bad)... So in conclusion, I have an even more distaste for why now The way I approach growth is by taking my awareness (and energy) out of 'content' and put it more on the 'process' - if you think of a red car now - the imagined car is the content and the act of thinking it is the process. "why?" tends to bring attention to content and "how" tends to bring attention to process: "why is the car red?" - "how do you know the car is red?" - feel the difference? even so 'how' still requires input from the mind - although I find the mental output more usefull as a result... I don't think 'self knowledge' is possible by asking questions of any kind, or even by 'looking inside' - self knowledge imo is only possible through relationships with other people... I think the world will start to learn that quite soon... sorry for the long post, and sorry for deviating so wildly from the topic - although I would suggest, based on my research, you can save a lot of time and progress spirituall a whole lot more by never asking 'why' and instead staying in that space that feels confusing, uncertain, 'pointless' and without answers... I certainly enjoy myself more this way.

nowhere or now, here?

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there is this space I've always had access to in between extremes... it looks like a smile at the end of the out breath. my girlfriend sucks her thumb...

hey Sean - this is probably like building a website for 70-somethings that hate change, but I really miss that little red square button by each thread in the forum, that jumps you straight to the last post on the thread... maybe it's because I'm not a fan of 'view new posts'... I've started using that, but am still nostalgic about my old way of going through the forum...