freeform
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Everything posted by freeform
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I actually agree with @Neirong - the vast majority of stuff you see like breaking bricks and bending spears with the throat - that’s all tricks. Martial arts schools used to earn pocket money showing this kind of thing in market towns… It became a kind of circus act performance where there’s a method involved in doing it… no inner skill necessary. However, here’s a video from a student of one of the famous ‘scamgong’ teachers (as the ancient ‘semi-immortal’ ones call him) It shows genuine iron shirt at a basic level: I imagine he didn’t actually train iron shirt methods - it’s probably just an extension of his level of Peng. It can be taken further - but from what I’ve been told, actually impacts negatively on other aspects of the internals.
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Yup - this is the result of your liver generating lots of qi… you’re usually in bed at the ‘liver hour’ so this is where it starts processing stuff. Dreams are generally to do with the Po and the Hun - the weird chaotic ones tend to be the Po processing sense-impressions… The vivid otherworldly ones tend to be the Hun doing it’s rounds on the various plains of existence The more the Po is settled, the more the Hun has access. In my tradition, eventually the Hun also must settle - and you aim for a completely still, dreamless sleep - effectively deep sleep without the normal sleep cycles (or at least minimal). I only ever get this on retreat… still too involved with the drama of life 😅
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That’s different… more related to the central channel
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Yeah effectively it’s the hun. (Which can be said to be what your ‘energy body’ actually is - sorry has to be vague or it’s a book’s worth of explanation) So in modern western stuff you see these dream practices where the energy body lifts off your physical one and travels. But you also get the ones where someone is given a coordinate and they view that place… Remote viewing I think it’s called. From what I understand of it (I’m really no expert at all) - they’re both using the Hun… just in different ways. There’s several aspects to the Hun - one is a kind of personal soul and another is a sort of collective soul. So I assume this is why it’s experienced differently - but similar end result. —— For (spiritual) traditions that don’t actively seek siddhi development, there is a stage where a siddhi naturally arises. I call it omniscience - but basically it’s knowledge of all things… Like how you’re able to go into your memory and remember what your front door looks like - someone with this siddhi is able to recollect any human (and non-human) experience, memory, thought or knowledge from all time (past, present and future). From what I understand, this is basically a complete, unobstructed connection with the ‘collective soul’ aspect of the Hun. It can’t be trained or developed - it’s simply a byproduct of a certain (very high) level of attainment. If you do this magical stuff, or focus on siddhi development, then the door to this level of attainment is closed. (Not that it’s likely that the vast majority of us would achieve it anyway 😅)
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Oh - do you mean like the lucid dreaming/astral travel stuff you see? Like when the ‘energy body’ lifts off your body - and then you can send it to places?
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I don’t actually. I guess the closest sect in Daoism to western occultism is the Zhengyi tradition (which is of very little interest to me to be honest). Their approach is using various trance states and creating ‘pacts’ with entities and deities using talismanic magic, incantations, rituals, transmissions and so on. The results (if there are any) are generally ‘quicker’ because the power is ‘borrowed’… (to be repaid later with interest in the view of my tradition). On another note - I described the orb of light that appears for people deep into the Shangqing practices… I always wondered if that stereotypical image we all know of the witch looking into a crystal ball - whether that is like a ritualised imitation of that 🤔
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Welcome to the Daobums @Pak_Satrio By the way - I’m yet to see an on-topic post from you in this thread. Maybe try moving the conversation forwards yourself instead of getting upset?
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Yup - exactly… and I think I’ve mentioned before that we’re from the same lineage (although it’s a biiiiig lineage - so a lot of variation within it). Wang Li Ping is also from the same lineage actually… he just doesn’t bother with teaching the foundations (understandable - coz it’s a long drawn out process requiring regular contact and supervision with pesky students ). Oh yes - and I’m totally guilty of being long-winded! I type fast but edit very slowly… so sometimes I don’t edit much at all - which = waffling
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In Daoist traditions, some lineages consider astral travel type practices a distraction or deviation - others actively train for it. Certain lines in the Maoshan sect for instance are fond of this kind of thing. It’s achieved after a prolonged period of absorption into the ‘inner sheath’ of the central channel… When it is filled with Ling qi, there’s a transformation and a kind of Ling shen light is formed… over time (and training) this consolidates outside the body as a sphere of pure light… the practitioner can enter the light with one pointed concentration and directly appear anywhere they choose (it’s also where various siddhi are actively developed)… They travel from the material realm to whatever other realm they have access to (usually a lower ghost/hell realm and a higher realm). There’s another vehicle for a similar skill which uses a totally different mechanic - it involves freeing the Hun spirit to similarly travel through the various realms and through time… This is considered ‘indirect’ travel - as its ‘vision’ is filtered through the personality. Usually done in sleep, or sleep-like states. It’s a ‘lower’ level skill if trained - but often happens by itself for most long term practitioners. (To be expected but not actively encouraged according to my teacher) Neither of these is considered necessary for spiritual cultivation (even by the sects that practice them)… One of the ‘semi-immortal Ancient Masters’ earlier said that it’s a requirement to fully access every part of every realm for spiritual growth to occur… not so according to my understanding. It’s like saying you must visit ever inch of every country before you can transcend the material realm… Another issue is it requires generating a lot of Ling… (which is like the purest form of ‘spirit-qi’ that’s available in the manifest realm). You either use Shen to generate Ling or you access Yuan Shen (original spirit) - doing one eventually precludes the other. It’s considered by alchemical lines (like mine) that Ling-based ‘magical’ practice creates a type of heavy karmic weight - effectively guaranteeing a large number of rebirths… the quality of the actions taken with this Ling (whether it’s motivated by the lower desires or the higher virtues) will dictate the quality of those rebirths… but because of the power that this affords, most tend towards the lower… and the nature of this sort of thing means that the karmic repercussion is far higher than with ‘ordinary’ action. Why are magic people so obsessed with demons and entities? Coz their soul is pulled by the gravity of their karma (and the karma of their traditions) to that realm… one life they’ll be battling demons another life they’ll be a demon battling some poor soul… like a never ending melodrama. In my tradition this stuff is avoided as much as possible. Some do use it to develop their healing abilities - but that’s also considered a side-path and only allowed if your Ming/karma dictates.
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Yes it is Hurting yourself with practice is pretty much a given at some stage if you train enough… But being taught that the damage you’ve caused is in fact progress - that’s pretty terrible. At least Steve’s school is pretty small and niche. Chia created a whole generation of sex mad ‘Taoists’ who permanently damaged their tubing and who are still pissing semen, years after stopping practice. The level of irresponsibility is just insane.
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It’s such a minefield, isn’t it! Then there’s the abuse! ‘Spiritual’ teachers command so much trust and devotion, any tiny impulse from their base desires easily gets fertilised by this level of devotion and grows out of control. All it takes is a slight deviation from spirit and such a teacher risks going down the wrong path and becoming a monster. They often don’t even notice it happening. It’s very common. In many ways the mainstream commercial relationship is far healthier than something like that. Then there are teachers that simply use the spiritual aesthetic (and nothing more) to achieve whatever it is they seek - from power and control, to adoration - and most often to sex and money… @Taoist Texts and @Bindi both have a fair point. But equally, going it alone with the energetic arts can lead to all sorts of physical and mental health issues. Going down the spiritual route by yourself is also fraught with all manner of delusions and issues. So yeah - we can see that its a pretty difficult road when even the first step is close to impossible for the vast majority. That’s why it is often said that it is one’s karma or Ming that’s of prime importance. With the right Ming, as @Earl Grey mentioned, you can work your way through even the scummiest teachers to find something of value. For me personally - if I see scummy behaviour in a teacher - I’ll call it out. If I see someone deluding or damaging themselves or others with invented or self directed practices I’ll call it out. If I don’t know - then I don’t know - and I’ll admit that.
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Our friend @Taoist Texts has a particular dislike for teachers… It’s because he’s had an overbearing father as a child. (Only joking - I have no idea why ) But disliking teachers is his thing - and he does make a good case for it - even if I disagree.
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You do have a way with words! Oh we’ve been through a period where people thought I’m Damo - you’re not the first cyber sleuth to draw that dramatic conclusion The carrot dangling bit - I actually agree with. I think that’s problematic. I was discussing the problem of carrot dangling with another member recently. It’s a balancing act. I often dissuade people from cultivation just as much as promote it… particularly if I get a feeling that it’s being treated as a way to fix something difficult in their life. With most people that get in touch with me directly, we talk about practical stuff first and foremost - ie getting life sorted. I only recommend Damo’s stuff specifically when people ask me for methods - because in my opinion that’s the best that’s openly available - and the dude has integrity. I certainly have my issues with the way he teaches and some aspects of his school… but even so - it’s still one of the best you can join. I’ve recommended other teachers too by the way… better get that magnifying glass out - maybe I’m actually Pa Auk playing the long game!
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I keep my teacher's identity quiet because that's what I've been asked to do (I probably would even if I wasn't asked). I don't teach - I'm not asking for people's time, money or effort - so I don't believe you're owed any information from me at all
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Sometimes when life is difficult we'll create fantasies that help us cope. If I feel that this is what's happening, I'm not going to have a go at someone who's just coping with life... If they start teaching - then it's another matter
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I think that's more a testament to you and your hard work. Yup - all I've seen is the work they've done on their site - and to me it's pretty scummy.
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He’s like our very own Bruce Frantzis! But I’m not going to denounce a young dude with a big imagination. There are many things in life that can lead to that sort of thing - and I’m not here to judge. I think it’s obvious to most people when someone is a fantasist - so no harm done imo. When there’s teaching involved - well then I have a far higher standard for someone that takes on that role… And I don’t hold back (unless it causes damage to someone). I had looked at some of those articles on ancientmasters.org denouncing various people and practices. The classic nameless, faceless, historyless internet dudes trying to dump on real teachers in an attempt to make a quick buck of some unsuspecting teenagers. I didn’t even comment on this before because it’s all a bit sad and pathetic. I guess people are prepared to stoop pretty low coz they feel anonymous… They’re yet to realise that the repercussions won’t come from others discovering them but from themselves, in time.
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Oh - you mean Gmaster? Yeah I saw the suggestion (and similarity in style). I had some fun chats with Gmaster despite the adolescent style grandiosity If it’s really him, I hope he reconsiders teaching. It’s one thing leading yourself down a path - it’s quite something else to lead other souls down a path… The money and status won’t be worth the repercussions.
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How could you question someone who was born kinda partly immortal!?! 😅
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No it’s not nice. I wasn’t trying to be nice. It’s also not nice to encourage your followers to worship you as a Buddha… A gentle joke to disarm the allure of a narcissistic personality cult like Kelsang Gyatso’s is fair game in my opinion
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Haha - I’m not holding my breath for that one
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These guys get all shy when anyone asks for details
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(sorry! Couldn’t resist! Carry on.)
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I’m assuming he must have at least some genuine skills and methods. Other contemporaries of his were certainly a bit more problematic in terms of the methods they teach. But I guess you need to have slept with a 1000 expert concubines and had a stream of Scandinavian beauties come on to you, to really master his sexual techniques!
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Frantzis is exhibiting the tell-tale results of practicing an ‘incomplete’ system. I’ve seen this over and over again… People training some genuine methods and becoming complete caricatures of a human being. Gary Clyman is the other well known one. Yes if you increase qi, but have no character development or spiritual connection, you become… a douchebag It’s very common! I’ve seen it LOTS in Asia. People turn into these weird pompous characters that get obsessed by sex, money and status. But not even in a sophisticated way - in like an over excited teenage boy on cocaine sort of way. It’s kinda funny to see actually. Often have this spiritual or mystical persona that’s completely and very obviously ruled by this Dan Bilzerian wannabe lifestyle. (some of the popular and well known teachers in Asia are (or also were) like this too… though it’s easier to hide this aspect to foreigners) I don’t know his level of skill… (though it has to be said that there’s almost nothing ‘internal’ in Taiji competitions in Asia… just a weirdly un-athletic stand-up wrestling). What matters to me, personally is inner development - transformation of oneself into one’s original spiritual nature… What happens with incomplete systems is the opposite - powered-up devolution into one’s base nature.
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