freeform

Pretty simple (but slightly gross) one to verify…

Or they create them far too early in their development - thinking they’ve mastered something when they’re yet to get off the ground. As always with these things there are issues with either extreme!

Incidentally - Daoists are far worse! They're in large courtyards burning fake money and little paper models of mobile phones, cars and other gadgets so that their dead relatives have everything they need on the other side. Alchemists - even worse - they’re into sucking up semen into their brains coz they think that’ll make them get pregnant and then they’ll be able to birth a little immortal baby version of themselves!

This might seem rational - but it’s simply wilful ignorance and intellectual laziness. How many Christians have you talked to? There are billions of them… what’s your sample size? How many of these billions truly believe there’s a magical dude in the sky who grants wishes? Some of them - sure. But not all of them. I’d say many millions of people don’t believe that at all - but they’re still Christians. In reality you know this is true, I’m sure… But a nuanced perspective wouldn’t fit the narrative you’ve constructed… so you make a caricature of millions of people to ridicule them… This is wilful ignorance. This is cynicism. It’s exactly the sort of ‘rationality’ the Catholic Church used to denounce Galileo…

Haha - yes totally using the low level peasant meaning of the word and not the philosophical origin (which sounds great ). I don’t think (peasant level) cynicism is disrespectful. Generally the cynic is someone intelligent… who sees himself as intelligent - and is awfully frightened of being labelled as unintelligent or gullible by others… so they deny things outside their narrow experience as a method of self protection - protection against believing the wrong thing… protection against losing status amongst their peers. One of the major tools of the cynic is ridicule and denigration… this tool, I find is disrespectful (though sometimes funny)… but the cynicism it comes from I just find it sad… understandable but sad.

Equating the idea that ‘the moon is made of cheese’ and that ‘it’s possible to generate qi that can affect physical matter’ is neither logical nor skeptical - it’s just purely cynical. Skepticism is important - cynicism not so much. great example of cynicism… and I don’t see what’s so logical about ridiculing billions of people on earth with some silly unoriginal narrative you just made up. (this is actually on-topic, I promise!)

With TT and Awaken I’ve been discussing Nei Dan. Fa qi is just a way to test the fullness of the qi… other traditions test for it differently - some don’t even test for it at all. Nei Dan - being a tantric tradition requires qi as the primary ingredient… Buddhism does things differently - though certainly the traditions that focus on the Jhannas will be building their energy body to a significant level too. Although he learned wai qi fiao fa, fa qi and lots of other such methods, his primary approach was through acupuncture… often not even inserting the needle. He used a form of wei qi liao fa to assist students with practice though. He doesn’t seem to think that fa qi is as useful (though he’s opened some channels from me using fa qi - one of the most painful things I’ve ever felt)

That’s a good question. One of the signs of true attainment is permanence. Unwavering quality of the attainment. When a spiritual transformation is permanent it is no longer conditioned by the body Even if you have a stroke or a brain lesion, the spirit remains transformed… the various subtle bodies remain transformed. I’ve actually been in the presence of one such master - and despite being unable to speak or move much, just being in his presence I was filled bliss and my practice (and sleep) was greatly altered when staying at his compound.

Exactly. I mean it does still do damage - even with replenishment… But we all make choices… doctors get stressed and work late nights knowing it’s damaging them - but they still do it.

Absolutely should be skeptical - especially when someone is so willing to demonstrate this for you… and especially if there’s a large sum of money involved somewhere in this process. It has and is often faked. I’ve seen both faked fa qi and genuine fa qi… there’s a way to tell the difference. But that’s not important… this, to me, is one of the least unbelievable or ‘miraculous’ things to happen in these arts. At least for my teacher - if you can’t demonstrate (real) fa qi, then you’re not ‘full’ enough yet… it’s never to be shown to anyone in public… in fact I’ve seen how when people get obsessed with this sort of stuff, they’re asked to leave the school.

That’s a good question. What good would this do for you? Very little - in my school, it would simply prove to you and your teachers that your qi is now full and your channels are now open and well configured. Doing this sort of demonstration repeatedly would do you harm over time. But if have enough Qi to do this - then you’ll be sure that you now have the correct level of ingredients for further alchemical transformation. Thats all. Without the fullness of this ingredient you simply get transitory internal phenomena that come and go - no permanent and complete transformation… just processes that get going (phenomena arises) then runs out of steam (phenomena ends)… then repeat - perhaps with different phenomena.

That’s jin… very different to fa qi… At distance it’s simply when the student is resonating with his teachers field and it’s very much ‘permissive’ - wouldn’t happen with a non-student or if he chose not to let it affect him. what about actual ‘fa-qi’ stuff like: baring in mind that these are simply ‘low level’ demonstrations of qi - not of any spiritual attainment (which are much stranger and I’ve never seen shown on video)

Not always so… in fact some of the critical achievements do exist for others… where the process (that produces inner phenomena) reaches conclusion - there’s a full transformation - rather than arising and falling away there’s a constant result - on the spiritual level, on the energetic level and on the physical level. That’s what the ‘miraculous’ attainments are pointing to. Yeah I worked that out a little later. You were talking about what is classically understood to be the first light phenomenon… and I was talking about the light phenomenon that was simply first on my list (the list was in no particular order). Sorry for the confusion. Actually Awaken got it: But then she says it wasn’t this 😅 I think she might be judging from the wrong orifice 😬 Though entering the white room is not what I got from that description you posted - which talked about golden light. Mine was pure white like snow. Ahh the joy of comparing phenomena

Totally. Its a silly thing to focus on anyway - even if it’s uncontrived and not imagined. Any phenomena are unimportant… not visual phenomena, not kinesthetic… not auditory… I almost never talk about them for that reason. My teacher doesn’t use visual phenomena as signs of attainment either - he’s more interested in physical/physiological transformation as that indicates complete transformation to him. As I mentioned many times - there are specific tests for this… I disagree with Awaken or TT that these phenomena denote the achievement of the various levels of alchemy… it may be an indicator of a process - but the transformation is quite literal and must extend from the spiritual and energetic all the way into the manifest realm if they’re genuine and ‘complete’… every true transformation happens on every level of one’s being. When I see phenomena being discussed at length (just like with Ingram) I know the ones discussing it are low level transfer method peasants (I should really come up with my own term to denigrate others with… afterall Awaken said that when your heart opens like hers is - this is how one must behave 😬)

No - that’s not what it was… something quite different. By 1st I meant my description here:

The latter. I don’t think it’s exalted… You just made an assertion that you understand the phenomena I’ve talked about. I’m just questioning whether you actually do - or you’re just saying stuff PS - phenomena are not particularly important for me - it’s just what you two seem to be most interested in here… Though now I’m asking for more of your understandings, and you get all coy about it

They both have classical names.

The problem is when the observation isn’t a true observation but simply a correlation with your current views… If you name the first and 4th light phenomena, then we’ll both know whether you’ve made a correct observation or not

That’s not what was experienced - it’s something very different. Neither Taoist Texts nor you have mentioned this phenomenon before. Curiously it’s something one other practitioner on the board has spoken about…

It’s not the turbidity of human beings that’s of concern to me - it’s your reaction to it that I find puzzling.

this is the 'taoist yoga' book sequence to a T. meaning the wulupai school sequence If you can name the first and 4th light then we can have a serious discussion - if you can’t name it, then you’re just zooming along on the old confirmation bias highway

Well for years I used to practice in a forest with old trees. Various trees would assist in various ways. I’ve practiced in caves, on top of dragon lines and in my teacher’s garden.. Now the zifagong ‘turns on’ whenever I begin my practice… it usually produces samadhi and I absorb into the Qi field inside. My teacher has told me that at some point I must leave him. (But I’m not there yet.) My teacher is not a qigong teacher - he’s a Nei Dan teacher. Well I hope the turbidity of human beings will disappoint you less and less over the years

Any movement from spontaneous gong has stopped many years ago for me… only the occasional mudra will come up. It’s very important that spontaneous gong must become still on the outside eventually.

It’s not quite what I was looking for but thanks for taking the time to give me your feedback anyway. I’m not confused about where I am in my cultivation I only wanted to know a more thorough description of Black Liver and Rabbit Marrow… In reality there are many things that I prefer not to speak about online… things like the mandalas you’ve mentioned… the 5 coloured lights, the falling snow, ‘inner seeing’, ‘causal seeing’… the appearance of light to other people around me etc. My teacher thinks these aren’t important… And I just don’t want to get into all that because people tend to get caught up with experiences and phenomena. what’s more important is what permanent changes happen inside… lights and phenomena are not important if there’s no transformation. And just to add - from what I can tell, I believe you’re certainly practicing at a high level. I’m just surprised not to see some kindness, humour and ease in the way you interact with people here. But I’d like to think you’re much kinder and more patient in-person

Yup - agreed. You might’ve missed it, but this is what I said in my post. This is way beyond the experience for most people. But yes you’re quite right… that’s the only way the real ‘jade fluid’ is produced. Yes - but not my acquired thinking… it’s the formula passed down from my teacher’s teacher - and he has full attainment. Even during zifagong, qi will move according to ‘natural patterns’… But in my tradition they want to build new ‘unnatural’ patterns into the body… they want to ‘order the qi’ according to a specific pattern… such as creating the Dantien and opening and connecting the channels.