freeform

Different traditions work differently - and the Jhannas are interpreted completely differently from one tradition to the next. From the traditions I’ve come across the Jhannas are both meditative states and attainments - in that to ‘attain’ the Jhanna certain permanent transformations occur. These are transformations that are both on the level of consciousness and physical/physiological transformations. Commonly one enters the Jhanna state maaaany times, over a long period of time before one attains that level of Jhanna. What Jhanna means seems quite flexible. The people I’ve come across consider the Jhannas almost impossible to attain. For instance there are only a handful of people on earth at this time who have achieved anything above the 4th Jhanna. Each individual that has attained 4th Jhanna and above is known because they start to resonate within a certain realm that is interconnected. Curiously it’s not only Buddhists that achieve these - there are Daoists, Hindus and Christians too - though they might not call it Jhanna - they’ve attained it. If you read the account of some people online though, they seem to enter and move through all the Jhannas after a weekend workshop.

Yeah - means something’s gone wrong at some point. No - beyond Zhenren as far as I understand - Heavenly Immortal.

That’s not quite what she says. ‘Progress towards’ and bringing about enlightenment are two very different things. Living a moral life is recommended to most householders. It does indeed bring one closer to the divine - bit by bit over many lifetimes. It’s this merit that will eventually draw one to a lifetime where the conditions are perfect to begin actual spiritual cultivation… and the wholesome karma of previous lives will fruit and support ones cultivation. Edit: Immoral and unvirtuous behaviour will close off the possibility of enlightenment. So it’s certainly one of the necessary causes.

Yeah this is an aspect of ‘the return’ that many Daoist texts talk about (it is several layers of meaning of course). Consciousness has a tendency towards returning to source… kinda like the opposite of entropy. This tendency is subtle and it moves at a scale that’s unfathomable - kinda how the continents move around on the surface of our planet. At the lower levels of consciousness this tendency is least evident… as a plant or a worm or a rabbit there’s no direct pull in that lifetime - but over thousands, or tens of thousands of lifetimes this pull gains momentum. At first life is almost random - you’re randomly moving towards and away from source - bouncing around and affected by the different environmental factors of the realm of consciousness you’re part of. There is a point, however, where you ‘enter the stream’… which happens around the 4th Jhanna as you’ve said. This is almost as if your soul falls into a river who’s current is much stronger and will inevitably lead you towards source within the next few lifetimes. Entering the stream can be either blissful or highly traumatic. Aspects of what you thought of as yourself will be shed - and this will seem either like a movement towards ultimate freedom or a movement towards ultimate annihilation (depending on who you are). Yeah - even the deities can be subject to rebirth. In fact having achieved the earlier Jhannas one will not have the normal rebirth cycle - they will be in the higher realms for a long time between death and rebirth - but rebirth is inevitable at some point. In mythical stories you’ll read of a ‘second coming’ of some highly developed individual - this is a hint that though they’ve reached high levels, they’ll still need to be reincarnated at some point or other. As far as I understand the highest level of immortality or Buddhahood means your karma is complete and you no longer have a need to reincarnate (but can - if you want).

No, not at all. Movement towards spirituality is inevitable - it’s just a very subtle undercurrent to all expressions of life… some lifetimes look like a move away from spirituality… but as a trend over thousands of lifetimes we’re all returning to the divine. It’s just the scale is beyond our mental comprehension. Some lifetimes we feel the pull of the return stronger - but we can’t judge others for not feeling this pull (because we’ve all had a lifetime or two like that )

He has a separate video on YouTube that teaches just anchoring the breath (not linking it to the MCO) - I think that’s more appropriate for most people than the MCO version (mainly because he anchors to the Dantien in the standalone version, whereas in the MCO one he anchors lower down - which is unhelpful as a standalone exercise).

Not quite. The aim isn’t to strengthen the tendons - the aim is to transform the nature of your muscles, fascia, tendons and ligaments. This essentially enables you to open the physical aspect of the channel system (the Jing jin). This is mostly achieved by qi - not physical movements, imagination or mental intention. When the qi grows denser (from Dantien based practices generally) it will automatically start to interact with different tissues in the body… usually starting with skin, then the nerves, then the muscles, then the thicker tendons and ligaments, then the finer fascial web… eventually even the bones and the bone marrow (though this is more Xi Sui Jing). The various postures and movements are a way of adding a stressor to the corresponding area while the qi fills it. This is what causes transformation. I haven’t cut up a qigong practitioner, so don’t know this for sure, but the muscles and connective tissues feel like they change very physically. It’s like certain fibres within the muscles start to line up a certain way… muscles that you don’t normally use (like the deeper postural muscles and ones near the bones) get much stronger and feel sort of striated… then the whole body starts to knit together through the fascial web. Even though you don’t have a muscle that connects your palm to your lower back, after the YJJ process the connection feels super obvious. When you engage this fascial network the large muscles are relaxed and soft, but there’s this taut network of connective tissues through the whole body… taut like guitar strings - like a taut drum skin through the entirety of the body - everything is connected and vibration can pass through the body easily… also (and this is a bit of a hint to people doing this stuff) one’s attention is able to freely suffuse into every part of your body. Eventually you can do weird stuff like wiggle your liver or expand and contract your chest cavity without using air pressure from your lungs or even move the various bones in your skull… need a vertebra to pop into the right place? You can just do it - without the chiropractic style manipulation of your external body. It’s quite a long process and practice is difficult and uncomfortable - it’s like the equivalent of heavy weight lifting. If you look at students performing it and it looks like a comfortable, gentle stretch then there’s usually no YJJ process happening. The resulting ‘qigong body’ means it’s fully connected, means qi and attention can pass freely throughout the body, means that you’re able to generate much more qi during practice and because all the channels lead to the organ system, these will be tonified, strengthened and allowed to purge any energetic pathogens easily.

Yeah. People tend to equate plant spirits with some divine beings. Though that’s not really the case - they’re no more divine than humans - and in many ways much more limited. I’ve seen how people consider those that have undertaken many ayahuasca ceremonies to somehow be more evolved, centred, spiritual. Yet I’ve met a ‘shaman’ from Peru - has had hundreds of trips over many years - spoke very eloquently about the divinity of the various plant teachers and how they’ve helped him achieve deep spiritual realisations… but I heard that a couple of years ago he went to prison for raping dozens of tourists. indeed.

No. With the same caveat - that becoming attached or averse to the experience can cause issues. The linking of energetic bodies also can pass a lot of energetic/karmic influences back and forth. It’s hard to say. When the mind is on fire, there are several common delusions that take hold. One is about being persecuted. Whether by entities, or voices, or friends, or people on tv… or clouds, 5G, microwaves, chips inserted into you, aliens etc etc. The theme always places you at the centre of everything. The random things you witness take on a new meaning that relates to you directly. You see a helicopter and it becomes obvious that the helicopter is following you. Someone speaks on the radio and it becomes clear that they are speaking to you. Etc etc Other times when some unfathomable internal process is taking place, our mind will create a sort of narrative to explain what’s happening. Say you have a buried memory of someone looking at you in a lusty way when you’re a child. That experience registers internally, and may come out as a feeling of being ‘energetically molested’ many years later when that stored feeling is touched on. Sometimes the person has these sort of impulses themselves, and this is so troubling that they cloak this aspect away from their inner eye… then years later might feel this ‘energetic molestation’ as something coming from the outside. There are many possibilities.

Buddhists talk about which jobs should be avoided. Generally they tend to avoid jobs that directly cause suffering. Raising animals for slaughter. Trading animals for slaughter. Slaughtering animals/people (at an abattoir or as a hunter or an executioner)… making and selling poisons and weapons… making and selling intoxicants like wine and drugs. I don’t have a full list - this is just off the top of my head. Maybe some members more knowledgeable in Buddhist doctrine would be able to present a full list. Making and selling hammers on the other hand is fine… even though a hammer may be used to kill as well as to build. The causation is mediated by the intent of the user - and is therefore an indirect cause. For me personally, applying this to your situation would work like this: I would personally avoid working on games that are built to be addictive - gambling games, games that generate revenue from in-game spending etc. I believe these to be intoxicating because they work directly on the dopamine response process to keep you playing and spending. But most games are fine. Even if they distract one from spiritual pursuits. Let’s face it - almost everything in life is a distraction away from spiritual development. The vast majority of people aren’t interested in that pursuit anyway - so creating some beauty and wonder for people to enjoy and appreciate is a good thing to do in my opinion.

yup. Nope. At least that’s not the direct causation. The way it can impact your next life is by your strongly attaching or feeling unacceptable aversion to some aspect of the resulting experience. —— I think in general, assuming good set and setting (where you are and who you are), hallucinogenic drugs will not cause serious damage as long one is minimal with its use. But equally it is not a panacea. There’s a real danger if one sees the hallucinogenic experience as ‘the answer’ to some inner emptiness or the like. Even with shamanism - all that you have access to is the lower realms and the minor spirit realms. Over-reliance on these substances will tie you to these realms and make touching the divine impossible. Just as over-obsession with physicality (material goods, pleasant feelings, positive stimulation of the senses) will limit you in this way too. All that hallucinogens provide is a temporary break from the structure your mind has created to apprehend ‘reality’. This break can be positive - particularly if this structure is super limiting… or if you’ve over-identified with this structure and assumed that your subjective experience apprehends the totality of reality. It’s like you’ve been staring at an image of yourself for years - then someone throws a stone and you see ripples in the image and realise you’ve just been looking at your reflection in the water all this time. For some people this is very helpful. For others it can be a catalyst for serious mental disturbance. The various beings, messages, presences one experiences are not divine or even particularly useful… usually they’re just aspects of mind that take on a representative identity… sometimes they’re representations of beings from the lower realms… or the minor spirit realms. All the elves, insect-like beings, snake like beings, plant spirits etc - that’s what these are. Whilst it may be eye-opening to experience the reality of this - they generally confer no benefit for your evolution or your growth… sometimes there’s a benefit, but there’s always a trade - and you may not realise what you’re giving away as part of the bargain. This is the area for shamans to traverse.

The exercise is basically a form of directed attention. The directing it (and keeping it there) is the only ‘intention’ you want to use. I personally don’t like the words attention/intention for this - but that’s besides the point. The point is that what you consider your ‘attention’ is, in reality, filled with a background hum of lots of competing ‘intentions’. One aspect of the exercise is to release these unconscious intentions by getting to direct attention of the physicality of your breathing (it’ll go past physicality in time by itself). I think what’s happening is that you’re softening your focus of your attention (in an attempt to drop intention) which easily leads to a daydreamy, trancey sort of state. You need to play around with the strength of your focus to be on the edge between spacey and strongly focused. Trying to drop intention is an intention You can’t really ‘do’ anything… you can just become aware of your doing… often this awareness will in itself stop this doing. Just allow your awareness to suffuse into the tissues of the area you’re attending to in a way that’s not too intense, but not too spaced out. You’ll begin to notice a fluid-like physicality to your attention eventually. Over time your ability to be stable with your awareness will increase. Also the depth/strength of awareness will increase without adding effort and intensity. This takes time - it’s like a muscle.

You’re asking good questions That’s what Damo calls ‘intention’. So it’s not correct - but - you sometimes have to do incorrect and enhance your ability to do it correctly. Like training wheels. Ive learned a very similar method to anchoring the breath. But in the way my teacher taught it, there was no direction or focusing of the attention… you just allowed it to sink if it’s own accord. I think Damo’s method is far easier - with a similar end result. My teacher transmitted the result - which registers internally - and then as a student you train this until it becomes second nature. Dividing it up in parts is a clever way to allow a beginner to create this for themselves without a teacher. Just keep going… it takes years. You’re moving in the right direction. In terms of practices - this is probably the best ‘bang for the buck’ practice for anyone to do. The end result is life changing. But the unpopular truth is that it just takes years of repetition and refinement. They stop being multiple parts and join together as one. Your phone number is one number but you break it down into several groups of digits for your mind to be able to get it all. Just keep going. Keep exploring how you can shave off active intention… how you can increase the depth of your attention. This practice is more about letting go and removing than it is about adding. The paradoxical effect is that the more you let go, the more attentional ‘bandwidth’ and ‘depth’ will increase. And your breath and emotional/mental reactivity will reduce significantly… and the more your qi will naturally sink… and the less your stress response will be active.

I know a guy who apprenticed with (what sounded to me like) a genuine shaman. 90% of the substances they used during the apprenticeship were not psychoactive at all… he went a whole year of this as a preparation before ever taking psychoactive compounds in ceremonies. That’s my concern too.

@questionmark The whole O@aD thing was coined by a member (Drew) here. He was an eccentric, likeable sort of guy… most of what he said came across as deluded ramblings (to me). The O@aD phenomenon - he discovered it when he sat cross legged at various fast food restaurants and noticed that people react to him strangely. He took any look or movement from any young female as a sign that they were having an orgasm. She crossed her legs = orgasm. She looked over her shoulder = orgasm. she stood up/ sat down = orgasm. I always assumed that what he was noticing was mostly delusion. He also took every movement or look from a male as a sign that they were ‘sucking off’ his qi because they were lower vibration people. Others at the forum however took his words at face value and pointed out that he’s giving orgasms to underage girls without any form of consent. This obviously is not good… and enough people pointed this out that this put an end to Drew’s posting here. He also believed that as the qi moves from his lower body to his head it carries with it fecal matter which makes him smell of poop. He used to eat copious amounts of garlic to cover up this smell. Its up to your discernment to work out if Drew is a reliable source for any info or not

Yup There’s stuff Damo’s not mentioning about placing weight on the front of the foot. And it’s to do with what @Cleansox says. It’s basically a way to begin to strongly mobilise qi. It’s used in many different systems.

what @Cleansox said Meditation is much further down the line. Though there is certainly other seated practices that are important. In my own training the foundation was very physical… physical exercise, lots of standing and moving Neigong. Stilling and consolidating the Jing and generating a lot of dense qi. If you start before puberty - you can actually bypass some of the foundation stuff - as the the Jing is not dispersed and there is a natural tendency for the Dantien space to consolidate.

It’s a known maxim if you want to become a true master of the art… but the reality is that the vast majority of people just want a taste of alchemy - like having it as a hobby or an interest. Its hard to teach the foundation… it’s hard to practice the foundation - it’s boring, uncomfortable and takes years. So many masters will teach what they enjoy teaching instead - and it’s up to you to make it work or treat it like a hobby. I lived with my teacher for years to build the foundation - full time practice with one day off a week. It’s a pretty big commitment for me - as well as for my teacher and his family. People have lives and teachers have only so much bandwidth. The people for whom this is their life’s work - they’ll find a way of building the foundation… or they won’t…

He doesn’t teach the foundation training… so most people that train with him simply have short lived experiences rather than full transformation. Same problem with Nathan Brine… he has an extensive background in martial arts and other internal work (which I imagine helped build his foundation) - but he jumps right into alchemical work - that will never go far without the abundance of dense qi as well as the open channels and strong conductive body that foundation work builds.

Who dares to rouse me from my slumber!?! Oh it’s @Salvijus - that’s alright then The brain in Daoist thought isn’t the centre of our consciousness or even thinking - it’s more like the transformer that takes in the totality of experience and steps it down and makes it experiencable on the human scale. Psychedelics effectively mess with this step down transformer. The result is that your perception is altered. What this means is that a psychedelic experience is largely limited to the capacity of your mind. Meaning that however seemingly mystical or profound your experience may have been from a trip, it can never touch your spirit… your reach is limited to the human realm - and sometimes, with some shamanic training you can extend this reach to one level lower and one level higher - meaning you can access the realms of ghosts, plants, the earth… or even low level deities. The majority of people don’t go beyond the mind. The amazing mystical experiences we have on psychedelics are at the level of the mind. This can be a positive thing if one’s mental constructs are very firm. If you’re very stuck in your ways and your world is small… psychedelics can shake it up and show to you the nature of mind and how amazing, pliable and unfixed it actually is. This can have a profound effect on someone who had a very fixed idea of reality - and never considered that reality is so closely intertwined with perception. They can begin to see that reality is far more complex than they ever realised… they might begin to appreciate different perspectives and see things in a new light. Apart from this paradigm shifting effect, psychedelics have little that would be of use to a cultivator. One of my teachers mentioned that you can get stuck in a different realm… not every realm is suitable for humans, but you can easily get stuck there and not be able to return. Mechanics wise - at least for mushrooms - they tend to quickly mobilise Jing and let it flood the Shen that feeds the mind and the brain. They suppress the Po - which gives the Hun some flexibility in its travels even though you’re not asleep. Psychedelics (especially if you have a lot of qi) can be dangerous… as I said - you can enter other realms, and the thread holding your various bodies together can snap and you can get stuck. Beyond a certain extent psychedelics are of no use to a cultivator. They’re also a little dangerous. if you’re interested in being a shaman and deal with spirits, ghosts and plant consciousness - then it’s useful, but get some decent shamanic training id suggest.

And that’s the experience of YJJ process taking place As your qi gets denser, you’ll find it will affect different aspects of the tissues. At some point you’ll find that the stretchy tension firstly becomes quite pleasant - like a springy hammock that you sit into… and the qi will start to affect the softer, subtler fascial web that pervades deeper into the body (between muscle fibres, around bones, filling the spaces around joints, organs etc). Then a new sort of discomfort takes place - less tense and stretched but more bruised and touching on sensations that feel like tearing flesh, or like being kicked in the nuts, or feeling nauseous etc Youll also start to feel very juicy and moist on the inside - kinda like you peed your pants… but weirdly pleasant This is when your breath starts to feel like silk sheaths pulling through the body - also very pleasant. so it’s not all suffering I think what you’re describing is the sensation of yang qi building in the tissues - which creates this sort of inner vibration that feels uncomfortable. This does become more pleasant over time as your channels open. But don’t worry you’ll still need to endure the discomfort of channel opening In the west we tend to think of qigong as a very gentle, relaxed form of practice. In Asia, people have an idea that not all qigong practice is like that. It’s in the cultural memory… though most don’t know why it should look so uncomfortable and difficult - they don’t know why there should be a puddle of sweat on the floor when all that’s happening is you’re lifting your arms up and down. So it’s particularly funny when people that clearly have no understanding of the internal mechanics literally just tense their muscles as they do the movements in an attempt to simulate what authentic qigong looks like. That’s usually what YJJ looks like - people using muscle tension and engagement which they fight against as they stretch. From the outside this might look a bit like what happens when you use internal mechanics… but of course it’s not - and it has none of the results that authentic YJJ produces. Or the other fun one is doing everything in a super low stance - completely spread out (and preferably a flowing outfit and a topknot!) (it may be pleasant and invigorating and a reasonable form of exercise - it’s just not YJJ).

What @Shadow_self said You could also add Wang Li Ping to that list… though I have some reservations.

Every traditional system will have a wuji of some sort. They tend to look different from system to system… but there will be one position that includes all the key principles of that system or method within this one basic posture… everything else in the system will be built off of this posture. Sometimes practitioners don’t realise the huge importance of the basic wuji posture and use it as the 30 second stance you take before you do ‘the real form’… in fact they have it completely the wrong way round. Some teachers and systems don’t have a wuji posture at all. This indicates that it’s a modern or made up system that’s been created by someone who really shouldn’t be doing that. No wuji is a huge red flag for me. This is true. The wuji - however simple and relaxed it may look on the outside should be excruciatingly uncomfortable in the beginning. If it’s not then it means you’re either just coasting or the teacher isn’t teaching the correct principles or doesn’t know them. Training your body for anything at a high level - whether it’s marathon running, violin playing, table tennis, hand stands or anything else - will invariably be really difficult and uncomfortable at the start. Boring, strenuous repetition of minute details until you get them right. If it’s not like that - you’re simply not training at a level that will take you far - which is fine, of course! But it’s not fine if you’re one of the weird few that really wants to make this stuff your life’s work. Then it’s potentially a waste of a lifetime.

Indeed - it’s a really difficult thing to change from ‘forms and methods’ to ‘processes’ mentality. The arts are 100% process based… different methods will be used to achieve these processes. The YJJ is a set of principles that kick-starts a process of internal transformation. I could (if I was weird) develop a method that uses different tea drinking postures to create the YJJ process. The problem is that the principles are super simple conceptually but difficult to achieve… the methods are a bit more mentally stimulating and much easier to grasp and achieve. Naturally people focus on what is mentally engaging and easily achieved - and loose what is difficult and hard to grasp. YJJ principles should be part of any potent qigong form. There are indeed methods that specifically focus on the various aspects of what’s required for the YJJ process to take place. This includes breathing methods to generate qi and sink it… stretching methods to strengthen the tissues etc. The issue is that there are several subtle principles that need to be present for the process to take place. It takes time to achieve each of these… it takes longer to integrate them and allow them to take place at the same time. Only once that is achieved does the process start - and it takes several years for the process to take effect.

Hi My teacher prefers to maintain anonymity, and he no longer accepts new students - so I respect his wishes and don’t give away any personal info. My system is primarily from the Dragon Gate tradition.