freeform

Who is that? I must’ve missed a fun period here 😅

At a deeper level, Jing is also your essence at the level of your Ming (or Karma) coming into form from your primordial, ‘soul’ through the Ming Men (the gate of life) and into your local physical self.

Orgasm depletes Jing - but even simple arousal does it too. Become sexually aroused and an aspect of Jing (the aspect one wishes to work with alchemically - preheaven yang Jing) descends and gets ready to create a new life. If you orgasm and ejaculate - it goes to create a baby. If you don’t ejaculate (but keep getting aroused) you’ll still ‘load the gun’ - and over time you’ll create stagnation. Over time this stagnation leads to what’s known as ‘muddying the waters’. Basically heightened compulsive lust and a kind of emotional emptiness and depletion. If you have intimate sex in a loving relationship, but not ejaculate, the energetics can balance between you and you will be slightly less depleted (though it’s still inescapable) and it won’t cause stagnation.

The good thing is that you respond strongly to practices. The confusing thing is that what may seem like a beneficial effect isn’t necessarily so from a ‘big picture’ perspective. Get yourself a good teacher would be my suggestion

You’re just an over achiever dmattwads I read about what you got from prayer too. Some people naturally have a stronger connection between the different layers of mind - so you’ll respond strongly to practices because they’ll penetrate deeper quicker. It’s just no ‘action’ can take you beyond the mind. But in HT they use the inner smile as the fundamental action that supposedly takes you all the way to the highest levels of immortality.

By far the best thing to come out of Healing Tao Wouldn’t underestimate the benefits of relaxing, smiling and paying some attention to one’s body - much more beneficial than the majority of the guided meditation type stuff you get on YouTube for instance. It not being ‘real cultivation’ is unimportant to the vast majority of people.

Its a good book, I like it - it’s just not purely Chinese medicine - in places he contradicts some of the principles. It’s still very useful though.

I try to stay away from the specific terminology from my tradition (and just use the commonly recognised Daoist terms). I think it’s equivalent to Original Silver in alchemical terms.

Interesting. Does he teach it in a way that generates an internal vibration? I’m not sure to be honest. I don’t know if there are paths that solely focus on mantra - I imagine that if this exists, it would probably be a Hindu tradition - that’s where the Daoists and Chan traditions got all this from. At a certain stage the mantra becomes internal… in the sense that it’s first a sound you make, then an internal vibration, then an internal light and eventually as you absorb into that light and penetrate past it’s outer manifestation, you’ll pass through ‘the mysterious gate’ into the unmanifest and experience Shen Ming - or the light of your Original Spirit… what happens after that in a tradition focusing solely on mantra - I don’t know. For Daoist alchemists, you then absorb into Shen Ming (which is very difficult because the very experience dissolves any sense of self - so you have to find a way to concentrate without a self to do it… ) If you manage it, you eventually go past even this manifestation to a denser substance behind the light - you gather this spiritual essence and ‘bring it back’ and use it as one of your alchemical substances. In this way you create form out of the formless.

Chanting Om correctly will bring Yin an Yang together and produce light over time. If someone says they saw light - this usually means they saw Qi generate Shen. If they say they saw God or simply can’t speak or describe what they saw - then they probably saw Shen Ming. While seeing light with eyes closed is a strange experience - experiencing Shen Ming is on a whole different level. In this case you’re going through the Xuan Men (mysterious gate) and seeing the light of your primordial spirit. Seeing the ‘manifest’ light is different to seeing the ‘primordial’ light… but usually you’d see the manifest light for a time before the primordial one comes through. I was clumsy with words A teacher will confirm that you have achieved say the 1st Jhanna - not when you’ve experienced the state, but when you’ve stabilised it and can enter it reasonably predictably. First experiencing it and ‘achieving’ it can be many years apart. (Or can even never happen.) For many of the pure Jhanna-based systems (which is not my main lineage) Jhanna is used as a preparation for death. The idea is to enter Jhanna at the moment of death - and this will impact the process of transmigration. If you can’t enter Jhanna predictably you can’t use it in this way - as far as I understand it, that’s why ‘achieving’ it is emphasised. This also brings up questions (it did for me)… what if you die suddenly from an accident!? My understanding is that then you’re out of luck… which explains the need for monastic life which makes accidental death a little less likely. Daoism is a little different in that (apologies for completely mixing very different traditions and mental models) - in that it builds what you might call a ‘Jhannic body’… you effectively create form out of the formless on a higher level of existence. A form that is as ‘real’ (and energetically ‘dense’) as your physical body. When death comes, your consciousness is automatically pulled to the higher state - in the way that gravity pulls an apple to the ground. And this is how transmigration is affected.

Yeah you could say the Jhanna is the result of this after a prolonged period of time. (though nimitta and Shen Ming are a little different… nimitta can be several steps removed from actual Shen Ming… but it’s close enough for discussion’s sake) Sounds simple, right? Remember that there are many millions of Buddhist monks practicing right now… and out of those millions maybe a few hundred (i don’t know the actual number… though for the higher Jhannas the number is known) are able to achieve the first Jhanna. So ‘survivorship bias’ kicks in - because we only ever read about the handful that have achieved it - and not the millions that died trying. There are also all sorts of pitfalls along the way… nimitta for instance - there’s a huge variety of similar experiences as a result of a huge variety of reasons (for instance simply having Qi in the centre of the head will create internal light - that’s not Shen Ming (the light of your original spirit) - it’s Qi stimulating certain parts of the brain.) On the threshold of achieving the Jhanna there are also lots of pitfalls (the arising bliss you hear of - if your awareness is moved towards it, then you’ll become absorbed in the most unbelievable sense of bliss imaginable - you’ll also lose your access to Jhanna and a whole bunch of the purified preheaven Jing that made getting to this stage possible).

That’s right. It’s a ‘simplified for westerners’ version of the classical principle of Sung. I can’t remember the specific poem - but there’s a classical text that likens the effect of Sung to an inner smile. So Mantak ‘hacked’ Sung with the ‘fake it until you make it’ mentality… you imagine the effect in the mistaken belief that it will generate the cause. (eg. Imagining having a million dollars in an effort to generate a million dollars) Of course hacking something fundamental like Sung basically makes it useless beyond a very shallow level. Sung has many layers and depths. Sung is the application of non-contrived action - Wei Wu Wei. Inner smile is Wei - contrived action. It will feel nice and make you feel relaxed to a certain level. (Just as imagining having a million dollars might release some of the stress and fear of being broke.) However as a tool for authentic cultivation - it will lead to a dead end very quickly.

Sorry - was meant to reply to this bit in the previous post. The tantric approach is more complex on the front end - but as a result it’s more achievable on the back end. Meditative absorption is simple on the front end - but close to impenetrable on the back end. You can spend 60 years of your life on meditative absorption and not get anywhere even close to samadhi - even if you have the right method. Why? Well you have no idea why. The internal conditions aren’t right for it to happen. What internal conditions? What conditions are right and what conditions are wrong? How do you change them? Doing this is like trying to grasp at clouds. If you have an authentic teacher that has a deep level of insight - they can assist to some degree. But these teachers are rare… and they’re usually only interested in the students that are highly talented and have the karma to achieve these things in this lifetime. (Usually they are the ones who become monks as kids and have a natural talent for discipline and meditative absorption.) The tantric (energetic/alchemical) approach on the other hand breaks down the internal landscape. Rather than grasping at clouds, it makes it possible for you to step by step generate the correct conditions and put in place the right causes for progress to occur. The thing is - if you balk at the effort required to understand and apply the energetic stuff, you’re in for a shock when you truly get the level of effort required to achieve even the first Jhanna. The tantric approach is a massive shortcut. Many lifetimes worth (for most people). On the other hand there are paths that say there’s nothing to achieve - you’re already there… there’s no path to walk because you’ve already arrived and you had never even left in the first place. All you have to do is just realise that fact. That seems a bit easier than meditative absorption and internal cultivation. That’s probably the easiest one to go for if effort is the main concern. Whether it’s genuine - different people have different views on that

It’s interesting to me the difference in attitude about spiritual matters between practitioners in the East and ones in the West. In the West we tend to see spirituality as a sort of innate thing in us… like emotion. So the spiritual journey is just a case of following your heart and intuition - there’s nothing to achieve - because you’re already there anyway. The people who get into it tend to be ones who don’t find their place in society and see spirituality as a sort of benevolent lifestyle that’s a kind and nurturing alternative to the difficult and painful life that society demands. In Asia it’s seen quite differently. Rather than soft and nurturing, the spiritual path is seen as ruthless and difficult. Sun Buer disfigured her face with boiling water to make her passage down the path a little more convenient. It’s worth pausing to understand the implication of that. I’m not saying that’s what’s required of us as cultivators - but it’s worth considering the level of ruthless self sacrifice implied in that action. Of course there’s the connotation of deep wisdom, kindness and compassion - but that happens only after you boil your face off

It can… however I’ve met hundreds of monks whose whole existence is aimed at Jhanna practice - for decades, full time - and they’re not able to reach the first Jhanna. If you can do it in 3 years then you’re either a ‘stream enterer’ from a past life or are exceptionally gifted both in terms of meditative ability and the life circumstances that afford you a genuine teacher willing to teach you and the ability to cultivate full time. A very rare occurrence… An 80-something yr old abbot in Burma told me he’s only seen one such person in all his life. (And he’s taught thousands of people) Then again he’s had several disciples that have managed to achieve a few of the Jhannas by simple dedication. This is all to say that the Jhannas are (by some) considered the very pinnacle of meditative attainment. Getting there in 3 years as a lay practitioner is almost unheard of. You need a teacher that is able to do it… you need to live in a retreat style setting with that teacher (even the normal monastic setting is not conducive)… You need to have a range of existing talents and qualities… Then you have a small chance of achieving it by the end of your life. If you’re able to achieve Jhanna without it, then overt energy work is redundant for you. The alchemical approach to achieving practically the same thing as Jhanna works differently. The underlying mechanics are altered in your favour. That’s how it increases the chances of achievement. It makes it possible (though still improbable) if you’re not already a stream enterer - and it makes it possible for people who lead a ‘normal’ life in society (though lengthy retreat and a genuine teacher are both still necessary).

Sure I can try at least. When do you notice this? Is it in day to day life? Or when doing complex mental stuff - or is it when you’re concentrating on an object as a meditative practice? I don’t mean to answer a question with a question - just want to understand at what level we’re looking at. There’s a lot of nuance to this stuff… some people talk about ‘mind fog’ for instance - the issue can be originating at many different levels… from depleted kidney yin… to a suppressed liver… maybe a stagnant spleen. Or it could be from having lost a sense of purpose - it could be a result of meditative practice where attention becomes diffuse and doesn’t cling to mental objects… it could even be that you were using stress as a fuel for mental focus and through internal practice your stress response has dropped considerably and you now have to find a new way to focus.

ohhhh now I remember Everything

Haha - that’s true… there’s certainly a stylistic difference… but the content does have that familiar garlicky, McDonaldsy smell that I associate with Drew. I’ve not read much of Everything though… is he one of Drew’s followers?

Hi Drew 👋🏼

Reading your report, I didn't come across anything out of the ordinary for spontaneous movement. No there's nothing entering or possessing you - it's all normal stuff The full moon brings Yang Qi up - so it's no wonder your movements are stronger. I went through all kinds of zifa gong movements (zifa gong is what this spontaneous method is known as). It can be really quite strong and violent - everything from powerfull shaking, spasming, jumping, flailing around, sprinting at top speed... spinning in a circle for hours... also screaming, shouting, laughing hysterically, saying all sorts of stupid things or even spontaneously singing and reciting mantras. This is all normal and expected. It's not possession or anything like that. It's also pretty much just garbage coming out. As in it's just stuff in your subconscious (the subconscious mind, but also the subconscious aspects of your body, Qi and emotional centre). When Qi moves and starts hitting blockages in these areas, you'll tend to 'act them out'... sometimes it's body based, sometimes it's energetic, sometimes it's emotional, sometimes it's mental... It's not important - you simply let it do its thing... kinda like letting a fart out... it just takes a little while (up to a couple of years) to let it all out. If things get too intense, you're right that you shouldn't try to stop it completely. Just soothe yourself a little... say shhhh, relax your mind, tell yourself 'calm down, relax, slow down, shhhh'. There's nothing inherently spiritual or 'special' about this stuff. It's best to approach it with an attitude of humour, playfullness - and not treating it too importantly. Don't let your focus, emotions or thoughts get too intense - don't indulge in experiences... if these things come up and you keep the above attitude of humour, playfullness and indifference, then they'll simply move through - if you do the opposite (indulge, treat them as important or special) then your mind will 'attach' to them - which is essentially a way to further solidify and entrench a blockage. It becomes difficult when the Qi starts working on more energetic and spiritual blocks - because they inherently feel kinda special and very outside of normal perception... stuff like strange mantras, mudras, weird visions and feelings etc... that's when it's even more important to double-down on the humour and indifference. In my school we helped that along by teasing eachother Eventually this all stops. All the outward madness calms down. The energy movement goes deeper inside... that's when the deeper work can begin Hopefully the system you're practicing has more to it than the spontaneous movements. If people are doing spontaneous exclusively for more than a few years, it might be better to look at other options. Otherwise, this stuff is great - it's pretty fun and it's one of the most efficient ways to clear out a lot of blockages really quickly. Enjoy the process and don't get too attached (remember it's a big, long fart - admittedly satisfying, rather exotic and fun, but a fart nonetheless)

Absolutely no apologies needed. I’m happy to help - and I’m sure the other members are too. So think of your awareness as a sort of subtle ‘mind-substance’… not a focused light or the source of the light. Rather than finding where your focus is originating (which is a thing, but not for this practice) - find where this substance is hanging out - in and around your body. I realise that this is an odd was of explaining it… but after some time, when you develop some Qi, this mind substance will thicken, and be quite palpable. I checked my notes from when I was doing this, and I actually initially couldn’t find this mind substance - what happened is I sat as per the instructions for Yi Shou Dantien, and I only began to notice it when something started to sink. It’s probably the case that it was so habitual to have it where it was for me, that I simply couldn’t identify it until it began to sink of its own accord. It’s the change from what was habitual that helped me discern it. Things like this in the beginning aren’t too formulaic, and there’s a bit of exploration required - but as long as you know what you’re looking to achieve, you’ll get there. Exactly.

I'll just leave this here :

This is a great point... bad in-person teaching is far worse than distance teaching of a good quality. I might be biased because his primary lineage is similar to mine, but I think Damo is one of the best publicly accessible teachers of Daoist internal arts. He's also a fun, down to earth bloke whilst having a pretty high level of attainment (I've heard his name quite a few times among the pretty insular 'closed door' internal arts community in Asia.) I've never trained with him extensively but met him and a couple of his seniors. He does teach in person - and he has teachers from his school around the world... so I'm sure in-person instruction can happen at some point.

I have to say you're asking good questions and in a way that suggests to me that you'll get a lot out of the internal arts. You're exploring the right things! While others want to know how to zap people with electric Qi, you want to know how to use your awareness. A breath of fresh air Regarding the question - how to place awareness - it's the nuance and subtlety of these seemingly small things that makes the difference in really progressing in these arts. One classical instruction is Yi Shou Dantien "Guard your awareness in the dan tien". Simple sentence (just 4 characters in Chinese) - but a whole depth of nuance that can get lost if taught by bad teachers. Often when we talk of awareness in the arts we use the term Ting - which means listen. (not observe, watch, focus, imagine etc) Why listen? Because it's a subtle sense... It's passive in nature - sounds come to you, you don't need to focus or direct anything. It's the sense that's least likely to be affected by delusion... it's not directional... it's not necessarily limited by distance (you could hear a thunder strike from many miles away without ever seeing the flash from the lightning). Ting is the quality of awareness we want to be using most of the time in these arts. Qi is a bit like a frightened deer at first... it might come and eat out of your hand if you're still, patient, quiet - but it will get spooked in a shot if you're not. So how do you guard your awareness in the dantian? You allow your awareness to sink of its own accord to your abdominal region... If you 'focus' your attention there - that's too intense, it will frighten the deer off. Any mental movement will also 'frighten the deer' and send the awareness upwards... any visualisation, imagination, contrived focus or overly strong intention will lead the Qi and the awareness back up. So instead you become aware of the space where your awareness is concentrated (usually around the head)... And just by becoming aware - and then slowly dial down your mental focus and you'll eventually reach just the right sweet spot when the awareness will begin to sink of its own accord - almost like it submits to gravity if left alone. Like a glass of muddy water - leave it alone for long enough and everything will settle. Once it sinks to your abdomen, it starts interacting with your dantien. But of course it's a bit difficult at first - so we need to cheat with some training wheels. Find the level where your dantien is meant to be - a couple of finger-widths below the belly button. Stick your finger there and keep it there. This marks the height of your dantien. Then pull up on your perineum a few times (squeeze it) - this marks the depth of where the dantien sits in your torso... So just trace a mental line up from your perineum and backwards from your finger poking your belly... where the lines meet - that's where your dantien should be. At this stage you're not Yi Shou Dantien - you're just exploring... see if you can get a felt sense of that space. For most people it feels like a kind of bermuda triangle - your awareness has nothing to work with - it's empty and blind... but keep trying.... keep reminding yourself where it is by cross referencing your perineum and your finger bellow your belly button. Try it without the finger and the perineum for a bit... then bring them both back - notice if your attention lost the correct space. Go back and forth a few times. Then take a seat on the edge of a chair or cross legged on the floor, straighten up and suspend your head from the Ding point (just an inch or two behind your crown towards the back of your head). Suspend that spot in space (don't pull up), and let your shoulders and all your flesh release and hang off that point. Like someone screwed a hook into your ding, suspended it from the ceiling and is using your body as a clothes hanger - everything hanging off. Find your sternum and allow it to release and sink downwards... it should be physically almost imperceptible in terms of movement (watch out because often when the sternum sinks, you'll lose the suspension from the ding... correct it!) Hold the position and take a bit of time to relax, release your thoughts, release any tensions, let your breathing calm down and get deeper (by itself). Then give the Yi Shou Dantien instructions a go: 1- find the location of your awareness (usually around the head, throat, sometimes heart area). 2- Aware of your awareness, begin to dial down your level of concentration - as if you're trying to drift off to sleep, but slower, more controlled, lighter. Don't go too far into daydream land - just enough that you notice that your awareness starts to sink downwards of its own accord. 3- Allow this to happen by itself, it will take a while, if you get distracted, go back to the first step. 4 - once the awareness is in your belly area just 'guard' it there, by keeping your mind free of thoughts, free of distractions - stable and unwavering. Do not lead your awareness... do not try to find the exact spot... don't do what you were doing during the exploration phase. Having just explored - just the mere 'shadow' of that experience, in itself is a strong enough intention to help your awareness (with the quality of Ting, listening) sink of its own accord to the right spot. It will almost certainly take many attempts to get it (perhaps dozens). When you get it right, you'll start to (eventually perhaps) feel the dantien start to move, vibrate, get warm, spin etc... That's how you correctly 'place your awareness'

Haha - well it can be helpful in extreme depletion scenarios… if you’ve lost a lot of blood - or been very unwell. But it’s not really necessary normally. Many cultures will have some sort of blood-based sausage. It’s called ‘black pudding’ in the UK… but I’ve had something similar in France made from wild boar blood… I know they have something like it in Ukrainian cuisine - I’m sure there are others. To be honest a little meat a couple of times a week is enough for most people. Too much can cause stagnation. Making sure to reduce stress and worry and make sure digestion is effective - as well as plenty of physical exercise to make sure there is no blood stagnation is best course of action.