freeform

Just wondering how you’re getting on with it. YJJ is such an important aspect of Neigong.

Have you been practicing @liminal_luke?

I was ok because I stopped when I started getting very spaced out in day to day life - and pulsating pressure etc. But I knew people doing head based practices that went on to get psychiatric issues - paranoia, and or delusions of grandeur etc. Others were fine. So just keep a very careful watch over your cultivation.

Athos?

wow. It certainly looks rather beautiful

No - no intention, just similar practices to what you're doing. It could be that my teacher added a transmission to assist the change - and it was actualised through my normal training. As you progress and the tissues start to engage and fill - there's a certain pressure that builds from the inside outwards - it felt like one my body was like one of those fake sumo suits I think that in itself creates that expansion and eventually radiance.

He did mention an Orthodox monastery - but not the country. So it may well be the case.

Yes - exactly. In fact one of my earlier teachers used to talk about cultivation methods of other religions. He was particularly interested in Christianity and prayer. He explained that there have been several enlightenments in the Christian tradition within the last few generations. (For him enlightenment is considered excepptionally rare - so it was a surprise to hear that). He tried to explain the mechanics behind cultivation through prayer (as alchemists like to do). As far as I understood, the idea with prayer is to create such a deep space of selflessness and humility - that it makes the centre of one's being like a kind of black hole. And at times (with some 'luck') this space will be filled in a flash 'by the grace of God' with prenatal Yang Qi. Extreme Yin giving birth to extreme Yang. This would have to be repeated over and over, effectively achieving the same thing at the various layers or 'bodies' - until one reaches the 'body' of God himself. Apparently the monks that achieve this show distinctly similar signs to that of Daoist Zhenren (such as radiating extremely bright light and various other confirmational siddhi). He explained that this was only possible for monks or nuns in secluded monasteries because all stimuli have to be controlled... instead of creating causes mostly within the body and mind, they create the causes within their environment and way of life. It's also only possible for ones who are already 'stream enterers' from past lives. In a way, it seems that what @Yueya is doing sounds kind of similar to me. Opening oneself up to nature (which is a physical embodiment of the divine) - emptying oneself of 'the self'... and letting any causes and conditions from past lives or present to create transformation. This is sort of the opposite to how alchemy (of my lineage) approaches the path... whereby we find the divine within ourselves and allow it to fill and transform each 'body' in turn - from the inside out. Yes - and this radiance allows one to live with one foot in society... in fact, this is encouraged as a kind of testing ground that uncovers areas needing extra work. It also means that you affect people much more than they affect you. And this is where ethics and morality are imperative... Similarly people worry about EMFs, wifi, 5G etc... often the one 'radiating' affects these waves - rather than the other way round.

Yeah - the Niwan holds a lot of Yang Qi - similar to kundalini - but different. The Kunlun system works with this a lot. I recommend extreme caution.

I had this crop up with one of my early Daoist teachers. The practice had opened me up to such an extent that I felt like a magnet for everyone’s emotions. I was still working in a big office at the time - I’d meet someone’s eyes and feel this huge wave of sadness go through me... Another person would walk past and I’d feel the hangover they must be suffering with. It was a pretty difficult time. Especially living in a city. I felt constantly assaulted with people’s ‘broadcasts’. I’d tear up reading the news. I’d get anxiety in the office because I couldn’t see a single piece of nature anywhere - no plants, no wood or stone - everything artificial - especially the people. I remember feeling that I must leave society and be far away from people, news, politics and so on. I stopped practicing partly because of this. The sensitivity subsided when I stopped - but never completely ended. When I met my current teacher he explained (through the Yi Jing) how my previous training was exacerbating my natural tendency. I’m naturally an introvert - which creates a certain effect to my Qi... Although my Qi field was getting larger and thicker, it had the quality of ‘pulling inwards’... So my field would touch on everything around me and bring that quality inside for my heart-mind to deal with. Turns out that’s the opposite of what my teacher wanted. He drew the hexagrams to denote transitioning to the quality I need to cultivate... a Qi field preferably not so large (though it can’t be helped at certain stages) - and a very slight ‘radiance’ a very slight outward pressure - just a tiny bit over what would be neutral or balanced... like a very dim lightbulb - almost unnoticeable. There were no specific practices to this. But within a couple of months he showed that we’d achieved it. I didn’t feel much difference. Until, that is, I had to do a trip to extend my visa - which involved cities. Busy, smelly, loud, crowded, hot Asian cities. But what I noticed is that instead of all the hustle and bustle being oppressive - it was fun! I enjoyed myself in a ridiculously busy city for the first time since starting cultivation. Not only did I feel unaffected by other’s fields, I literally didn’t give a f***k about anything. Motorbike accident? No problem - help the guy up - oh that’s a big gash - let’s get you an ambulance - oh you can’t afford it? Ok let’s just catch a cab... no panic, no stress, no self consciousness etc. Things just flowed without the added reactivity of the emotions. These days not much affects me at all. I generally enjoy life, whatever the circumstances. Though I am drawn to nature. @Yueya’s circumstances would be very welcome! I also notice that as I sit and practice, any blockage or minor trauma I touch with awareness suddenly, of its own accord gently makes its way out of my field. No intention or anything. Most of the time I don’t even notice... or I’ll notice a little heat sensation or a little patch of cold - but as my awareness steadily embraces it, these sensations just slowly lift away and out of my system. So - a quality helpful for cultivation (and no need for shielding or anything like that!)

Yeah - I had this too. Nice example of the cause and effect rule taking place... life circumstances create a quality in our personality and that quality dictates certain behaviours and preferences... For me it was: rebelliousness -> distrust of authority. Some conditions are helpful for cultivation - others aren’t. I don’t think distrust of authority is necessarily unhelpful for cultivation - but apparently it’s unhelpful for developing discipline. I think in my case I had spent so much effort on trying to find a genuine teacher (and being disappointed time after time) - that when I did, I just put my distrust of the strictness and hierarchy aside for a time. In time it all fell away without even noticing. The discipline that I found stifling for most of my life became like a portal to a completely new level of freedom I hadn’t realised was possible.

Well - it's just one of those things... the result could be anything from nothing to a headache, to crazy hallucinations to the bright light of your original self...it's a broad range

Depends who you are and what conditions you've developed.

Is Neidan an art or a science? Is it 'mechanistic' or ineffably artistic? Is this mastery the result of art - or of relentless, repetitive practice of mechanics? I say it's both. My teacher says it's both. We tend to look either to the end of the path - or the beginning... The words of the great saints and sages are piercingly direct but full of art and multilayered subtlety. The work of the beginner is mechanics - repeating the same thing every day to build it into the body-mind. What we often miss is the middle - where art and science meet and begin to dance. In my experience, with a traditional teacher from a traditional lineage - the training is systematic and highly structured. It's systematic for the same reason that the pianist above had to sweat through tens of thousands of hours repeating scales, perfecting transitions and so on. The specific line of my lineage can trace it's documented history (meaning specific people with real names (and often photos or depictions) and no mythical characters) - to 9 generations. With some ambiguity along with the documented, it traces it's line to the 700's. The principles of the methods and progression have remained unchanged - though the methods themselves have changed slightly and continue to change according to the teacher teaching. There are undocumented Xian (and one at the head of the lineage) and several recent, documented Zhenren, as well as many Shengren. Regarding Damo - as far as I know his teachings come from a parallel line to mine within the same lineage. A lot of what he says is exceptionally similar to what I've gleaned from my teacher and peers. Everyone's training in our line has been very regimented, structured and systematic. But without a doubt the way the training unfolds within each individual is completely 'organic'. This is by design. If you peeped through the keyhole at young Lang Lang (the pianist above) practicing the same short sequence over and over and over and over for hours, days, weeks on end - you may well say that this robotic repetition could never produce art. It's just overwriting his unique, intrinsic ability to create music. Whether it appeals to ones sensibilities or not - traditional schools of Neidan are super systematic in their methodology. There are lists, processes, stages, achievements, attainments etc. This is how my teacher was taught - and how his teacher was taught, and so on - for hundreds of years. Being a very pragmatic bunch, if this was not helpful, they would have been rid of it rather quickly. An aspect that tends to confound those outside of these kinds of lineages is that these practices aren't designed to 'create the golden embryo' - or in fact create any of the states and attainments we've heard of. There are no techniques that will get you into 'meditation' etc... It might sound like a paradox, but that's the case. There's a crucial distinction that needs to be pondered to get the significance. The systematic practices create 'qualities'. These qualities set up 'causes'. With the various causes in place - then the 'effect' arises spontaneously. It might seem like a trite distinction - but it's not. It's key. A carpenter shapes wood into a table. This is not how these arts work. A gardener creates the conditions for fruits to arise. This is how the arts work. (note there are many conditions outside of the gardener's influence - and so it is the case for Neidan) ...according to causes. Your lifestyle, your teachers, your Ming, inherent strengths and weaknesses... these are all the cause of what's unfolding for any one of us. Hopefully I've been able to shed some light on why this is a mistaken view. A view, perhaps gleaned by looking through the keyhole at tiny portion of what constitutes a lifetime's worth of cultivation. I hope you don't see this as a provocation (it's not meant as such) - I only mean to shed some light on aspects that are out of view for you.

works for something that’s about choreography and fine motor skill (eg martial arts) - does the opposite for cultivation unfortunately

It’s hard enough to awaken the energy body and build a Dantien for a healthy person. So it would be hard. But certainly not impossible! Wei Qi Liao Fa - or Qi emission can be used to help start certain energetic processes for the quadriplegic practitioner. This could pave the way for more self initiated practice. Sound would certainly be a powerful modality... but once the flywheel gets going - it can simply be enabled to do its work by ‘maintaining the cessation of words’... Periodical assistance from a teacher to move the process along would be required (as it also often is for the able bodied).

Yeah - it might’ve been in reference to the idea that a cultivator needn’t aim to generate merit.

I’m no expert on Buddhism myself (you probably know more) - but this is what my teacher in Myanmar told me. (And they rarely waste words) While good karma can provide an opportunity to cultivate - that doesn’t mean you’re freed from the cycle. it’s the releasing and letting go of all karma (through cultivation) that you can end the cycle...

Positive karma is said to fruit when one’s mind is experiencing ‘wholesome’ states... negative karma tends to fruit when one is stuck in unwholesome states of mind. But from a cultivator’s perspective - both positive and negative karma weighs you down and keeps you stuck in the cycle of death-rebirth.

Disrespect and lack of respect are different. I always start all personal interactions with implicit respect... It's their behaviour that dictates whether that respect stays and grows - or dwindles. It's to do with how one treats others and how seriously one takes oneself... It seems that you're pretty preoccupied with Damo - while I'm discussing the downsides of 'cheating' ones way into a school of internal arts - whether it's Damo's or Chia's or whoever. I've not been on the Academy, but I've talked to people who are enrolled - and they're developing exceptionally well in my opinion.

@XianGong - It's ok to call people out and say that they're wrong - and that you're right, and a powerful immortal and so on... But to be honest - unless you give us something else - something that suggests you actually understand what you're talking about - you're just coming across as one of these fellas:

Why do any training when you can just imagine that your energy body does it for you

Very well said. I used to pirate all sorts of stuff - and I never got anything out of it. I had the best collection of music, films, spiritual lectures and books... But it was always just a collection - nothing more. Just mental stimulation. It’s only when I’d sacrifice something that I’d actually get progress in return. So the collection is gone. Now all my consumption is intentional. The fact that I have to sacrifice some of my money to get some media, means it’s a decision - a contract I make - and I no longer enter into contracts lightly.

Didn’t say it was wrong - that’s your own McNugget I’m afraid

Agreed The main issue with any mental direction is that it’s an action - meaning the ‘cause’ is temporary... so as soon as you stop directing - the flow will stop... In traditional schools, you can’t say you’ve achieved the small waterwheel if it’s not a permanent quality in you. Also mental action stops any form of deeper absorption. From my experience following the indirect method, the flow is definitely not gentle, when the mind gets out of the way it becomes a powerful circulating waterfall...