freeform

No - I’m just disagreeing with your previous statement. You say that death (or non existence) is the ultimate fear. I’m saying that this over-simplification simply doesn’t fit reality - because thousands of people commit suicide every day. That tells me that these people are a lot more afraid of further pain and suffering than of death. Similarly people are willing to go to war, or risk their life to defend their families - and so on. So no - I’m afraid your statement doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Of course fear of death is a big one. But it’s one of many. And it’s certainly not the ultimate fear.

Though if your teacher and his/her seniors shows genuine attainment (and virtue) then follow the training as specified!

Cool Movement is a must - too much building and sitting can generate a lot of inner stagnation. I tend to recommend to keep zifagong out of seated practice - partly as self-control training and partly because it’s best to keep the majority of seated practice for consciousness work. But I say let it do it’s thing while standing Though not to say it’s the only way. I’ve even seen an Indonesian school where their zifagong type practice is exclusively done seated...

That’s possible... though usually not at the start. This approach is specifically avoided and discouraged in my experience - though there are many teachers that use it.

Not in my Longmen tradition - at least not contrived holding... though it does happen of its own accord at a certain stage.

Any movement practice?

Honestly - there's not much to it... the modern books tend to be 90% validation of their ideas using science - the real meat is the 10%... and that 10% is already built into how one trains (in genuine lines of) cultivation... For instance one of the major aspects of 'deliberate practice' is focus... you're meant to be deeply focused on what you're doing - not just mindlessly repeating something... Here's a decent article on deliberate practice: https://jamesclear.com/beginners-guide-deliberate-practice Similarly the recent popularity of the concept of flow comes from Steven Kotler in his book 'Rise of the Superman'... Kotler claims that flow is developed most in action-adventure sports (big wave surfing, wing-suit flying, unassisted rock climbing etc.) ... In Daoism flow is the result of full, 'mindful' absorption into skillful action - particularly if it's also put under some pressure (hence internal martial arts being such a prominent part of Daoist training)... absorption is trained directly - whereas in action adventure sports absorption happens as a byproduct of the danger of death... Though I believe that one is very nourishing - as it systematically builds up jing, qi and shen using the Ting (absorptive awareness) and Song (active release) - while the other way is very depleting because it essentially forces you to dip into your jing reserves to achieve flow. (that's why action adventure sports people report feeling extremely drained, tired, depressed and like they're coming down from addictive drugs after a strong flow event).

I had a Buddhist teacher that claimed that most ‘normal’ lives tend towards generating negative karma overall - and it’s the selflessness inherent in raising children that generates the majority of people’s merit in a lifetime... Completely selfless action is one of the hardest things to achieve. And yet the most natural when it comes to ones children. Someone asked me if there’s a completely ‘safe’ and simple spiritual path... leading a life of truly selfless service is it. It’s probably the simplest, yet most difficult paths around...

Who is the I that thinks this? (joking! 😜) Not in my experience... I’ve known people for whom the idea of non-existence is comforting... they’re more afraid of pain - mental, emotional and so on. If non-existence was the main fear you wouldn’t see the many thousands of atheists opting for euthanasia for instance...

Yeah there are many nuances - and slightly different perspectives depending on the specific tradition within alchemical Daoism. When I say ‘preoccupied’ I mean to communicate action... In our tradition, when the elements are in motion they exemplify what one could call their ‘negative’ attributes (though I don’t necessarily see them negatively). When they’re brought to stillness they generate their respective Virtue as a quality (rather than an action)... So when the Po is still the virtue of courage or uprightness becomes a pervading state (you don’t feel courageous as a reaction to something - you are courageous as an underlying quality of who you are). This is a rare transformation - and not considered as something an uncultivated person would be able to achieve. When talking of ‘harmony’ there’s a connotation of harmonious movement... When the Po is functioning harmoniously (in normal, healthy non-cultivators) between its Yin and Yang manifestation within the body-mind (within the lungs and large intestines) - there is a balance between its Yang emotional aspects (sadness, grief - within the lung system) and Yin cognitive aspects (letting go - governed by the large intestine system)... So a healthy, harmonious function of the Po in my tradition is considered as a smooth relationship between grief (as a result of loss) and the act of letting go (of the thing one lost)... Similarly the Zhi acts through the kidneys as a Yang emotional movement and is preoccupied with survival fear/anxiety... and is balanced by the Yin cognitive aspect through the bladder - and that manifests as a sort of self confidence... So a harmonious Zhi would for instance react to something like being fired and losing ones income with fear... and then this would quickly move through and be balanced by self-confidence (now I can get a better job!) The De of wisdom in my tradition does not figure in the normal functioning of the Zhi - but only when it is brought to stillness through practices like Xin Zhai (heart-mind fasting). The manifestation of De are a very substantial change from how our emotions and inner worlds work... The biggest difference is stability and non-reactivity... so someone who has achieved De does not have ‘good days’ and ‘bad days’ - their inner world is stable and constant. There’s no reflexive reaction to stimuli - just a constant underlying quality. The manifestation of the De each have a specific physiological change that happens. So there are several tests to see if the De has fully manifested and stabilised (my tradition strongly emphasises discernment and guards against delusion - so most inner experiences are not treated as particularly important and noteworthy until they clearly impact on every level of the person.) I should add that there are certainly glimpses of each of the De in people... usually these are glimpsed beneath the movement and turmoil of the movement of emotion... But to become a true Virtue, the very functioning of the refracted light of the yuan shen (as it manifests as the 5 elements) goes through a paradigm shift.

Courage is the virtue of the Po - the lung spirit... The Po is mainly preoccupied with sadness or grief - and attachment to things and aspects of the acquired mind. Fear is the main preoccupation of the Zhi - the kidney spirit... Who’s virtue (as a result of transforming its survival fear) is Wisdom - as @Taomeow says. Which is interesting...

that I’m not sure about. From what I understand it’s your actions that count. So even if you have complete disregard for fellow beings, but treat them kindly - that still results in positive or neutral karma. And conversely if you feel an outpouring of love and compassion for all beings, but then use them to satisfy your desires in some way (for sex, money, power) - then you generate negative karma. Thats what I’ve been told. I certainly don’t understand the full depth of karma and Ming - it seems like such a deeply profound subject...

On a jing level the effect is on direct descendants - for 4 generations if I’m not mistaken. This is what makes up part of one’s prenatal jing... it’s basically Daoist epigenetics Though you can certainly affect other family members or just people close to you on a Qi level.

Yup - that’s one side... Particularly for the jhanic approaches which generate a lot of Qi as a byproduct of their concentration (as you mentioned the Buddhist take on this) Another side is that as certain emotional reactivity is broken down, the ‘protective’ mechanism of the emotions is no longer present. Imagine if you felt no guilt or shame or empathy - and you had no moral compass... that’s basically a psychopath right? Well that’s what happens at certain stages of Xing work.

Well I've had a recent transformation in respect to fear... though it's the kind of flinch response type of fear that's completely gone. Fear, as bigger overarching thing still exists - for example I can certainly muster up fear of - say losing a loved one. But no more jumpiness or sudden reflexive panic. I've already managed to burn myself several times... Didn't close my eyes as a branch smashed into my face during a bike ride... Almost started a fight unintentionally... Not many positives to be honest... though I imagine it would be useful for martial arts or certain sports... and it's nice to not feel suddenly panicked. It's apparently the result of having fully opened a certain channel - not transforming of the function of the Zhi (sadly)

I find the Daoist take on 'psychology' absolutely fascinating. It's a shame it's been dumbed down so much by the popular Daoist teachers. Yes and no There's more to it than that - but as a simple mental model, yes that matches. Though the harmonisation of the five lights is not the cause... The hamonisation starts another process that transforms the function of the 5 spirits into the De. This in essence is the 'purest' one can become as a human - think sages and saints... but it's not considered enlightenment. Some traditions (actually most, I believe) bypass all of that and shoot straight for the Yuan Shen and awakening - much quicker, but leaves a ton of 'unfinished business'... some are able to simply drop all of that at a certain stage and progress to enlightenment - but if they don't manage it in one lifetime it can backfire badly (think dodgy sex-crazed gurus).

Spot on. And I've seen pretty strong full-contact sparring between taiji practitioners... it looks like pretty much any (stand-up) MMA fight - not like taiji form or push hands...

The Zhi - the kidney spirit is indeed associated with the fears connected with survival... In the case you've described, @anshino23, it seems to have done a pretty good job But fear is not the only thing that happened... What's interesting is that you're frustrated that you reacted submissively. This is another thing altogether - this is coming from your Hun, which is in charge of knowing your place in relation to others (for instance your social position in a hierarchy)...

The majority of taiji ‘masters’ left in China are simply wushu people affiliated with governmental institutions to promote ‘traditional Chinese culture’. There’s a lot to this. There’s political pressure (and funding/livelihoods etc) - there’s the face-saving issue... The majority of skilled IMA practitioners have either left or are effectively trying to stay under the radar in China. The ones accepting to fight the MMA dude are generally attempting to protect their position, their big school, their government funding or something like that. These are not the best martial artists - these are the most political or business oriented ‘masters’ - and have clearly lost all touch with reality. This echoes what we discussed about touching hands with as many people as possible... these guys have only been touching hands with students - and not felt a non-cooperative touch in years. Even a beginner with any full contact skill will be able to defeat them.

There’s a way to fix ones posture without getting out of mindful state... (although it requires that your ‘internal body’ is mobile)... If you for instance straighten your back actively, it’ll be an action - and so you’ll have to hold that new posture. You’d hold it physically and your hold it mentally - which would lose any of the meditative qualities you developed. So the Daoist way is to straighten without straightening... by basically using mudra. So if you find you’ve slouched, just very slowly put you dominant hand in the sword fingers mudra in your lap and point up - engaging the soft tissues. If your inner body is awake it will slowly straighten itself through the spine using an inner stretch rather than a contraction. You just release your sword fingers and you’ll find you can stay upright without any effort or holding.

Yup - it’s happened several times to me - and with teachers from different traditions and different countries. I think it’s not important necessarily whether you enter a meditative state of any kind - I think it’s more a test of destractability, patience and the ability to follow instructions. For some posture and complete stillness (of body) was important - so they’d keep an eye on you. For some they’d just leave you there and walk off. The worst part was that you have no idea what’s going on... you don’t necessarily know it’s a test... you don’t know what’s expected if you... you also don’t know how long it’s been - 4 hours sitting feels like 10hours of a normal day... You don’t know if they’ve forgotten about you, or you missed some instruction... when other people start fidgeting or getting up you feel very drawn to do that too... Most people would get up after half an hour and look for the teacher to ask what they should do (go home was the usual answer)... others would fidget, stretch or try to engage other people. Though often I was on my own. Having failed the test once, I never failed again... though it involved sitting and silently gritting my teeth through the whole thing - or at least until the numbness overtook the pain

Yup - makes more sense! Yeah - exactly what I've been told. I've done only a little Taiji training - I think through my extensive neigong training, I've developed enough skill to be able to Na and Fa - but only with energetically open people - and rarely under pressure. My teacher who trains Taiji explains that it's this very fact of keeping centred, song and ting while under pressure - this is what creates the sort of skill necessary for cultivation... I can see how this would be a pretty considerable advantage in 'normal life' too... This is the big thing missed by the 'yeah but it doesn't work in the cage' type mentality... It's not designed to work in the cage... it's designed as a form of self development - to create the ability to be strong but calm, relaxed and attentive in the face of adversity. While training 'for the cage' can increase confidence, I've found that it doesn't create the same quality at all, and has very little positive crossover into normal life (and often a negative crossover into cultivation)...

This is a common requirement for teachers in Asia actually. I hope I'm not giving away the big secret (actually I don't care - you either can do it or not) - but there's a test many of them do - basically tell you to sit still and then walk away (Without any other instruction). The test is to see how long you can sit for... the correct answer should be around 3 to 5hrs

I think what I'm trying to ascertain is what 'simple' means to you... To me Complex means 'having many interconnected parts'.... Simple means the opposite - so 'very few (or indeed no) interconnected parts'... From what you say, it seems to me the process is more complex than it is simple... Also - although I don't train in martial arts (I've done a bit just to placate one of my teachers) - my teacher who does - says not to train push-hands with one person for too long - because you develop sensitivity to each other and it becomes too cooperative... like a dance where the 'leading' is done internally... He says you must touch hands with as many people as possible - including the ones that think taiji is basically wrestling. Do you agree, or does this go counter skill building in your tradition?

It will come when you're ready - start by getting back to health and wellbeing - then build on that