freeform

Just a word of caution. What may seem powerful can in fact be detrimental. Just as snorting cocaine might seem like magic to someone who doesn’t understand what it is and what the knock-on effects are. Putting together bits from different traditions can easily backfire once you’ve actually got Qi. It’s common to think of these arts as computer games where you power up and level up as much as you can. But the truth is that the path is really quite precarious. It’s filled with pitfalls. In fact it’s mostly pitfalls with a few razor thin wires you can walk that get you to the other side. It’s closer in nature to bread baking than to computer games. You need to work with the right ingredients carefully and precisely to have a tasty loaf at the end. Every quality of each of your ingredients matters. Each stage of creating the dough needs to follow a certain process and produce certain results. you need to know and understand each aspect. You need to know the expected texture of the dough when kneading. You need to understand how the process changes according to the heat and humidity in the room... How the particular flour will affect the outcome... How to work with your particular oven - and so on. Once you’ve followed the recipe and successfully baked hundreds of loaves - then you begin to understand the process on an intuitive level and can begin experimenting with other ingredients. But before you’re deeply familiar with every aspect of the process, you’re risking baking a bread that doesn’t rise, or is too tough, or soggy or any number of hundreds of possible errors. Most importantly, these errors are not always obvious until you take the loaf out the oven. And in cultivation it’s not bread you’re baking - it’s you. While you can throw away a faulty loaf and begin again - you’ll have to wait until the next fortunate lifetime to cultivate again...

Yes - in essence you can be strong as a byproduct of becoming resilient, confident and healthy... Or you can be strong as a reaction to a sense of weakness or vulnerability you feel inside... One is the archetype of the benevolent leader and the other a bully... One is built on a healthy foundation of strength... the other is built on a foundation that is rotting from within... —— In the world of cultivation - when you have a lot of Qi, you in effect create a very strong link between your mind, body and spirit. That means there’s an extra responsibility we take on... Because now, any amount of poison will affect all three... Whereas in normal people who aren’t so connected the effect stays in one layer instead... For a normal person lusting after sex or power is normal and it will come and go. In a cultivator with a lot of Qi, allowing lust to take hold will begin to transform the quality of every part of you - mind body and spirit... This over time changes you at the very core... and creates a lot of karma... That’s why there is so much talk of virtue and ethical behaviour in the classics.

People chasing abilities for the sake of abilities usually end up dead early. There’s a specific mechanic to this that I don’t 100% understand - but it’s to do with the Ming. I’ve come across a couple of schools that specifically focus on attracting the students who are chasing abilities... they create the causes in the student directly so that they can manifest certain Qi abilities - and then they put them to work in a qigong hospital... Firstly the skill is not the student’s own. So if the teacher doesn’t keep charging them up, they’ll quickly lose their ability. And secondly the student is unknowingly trading something a lot more precious for these temporary abilities... And this will become evident later in life. Be wary of schools that dangle abilities as a carrot - there’s a reason they’re doing this. Equally be wary of schools that say these abilities don’t exist - because they do and they should come about as a byproduct of training.

Yeah exactly. There are some legitimate reasons to limit free-sharing of methods - specifically if they’re dangerous - or that certain signs when revealed would create confirmation bias in a student. It’s also important for students to understand that these practices aren’t just a collection of methods - they’re step by step processes - the fruits of one process lead you to the next process. You can’t just mix and match processes because you don’t understand the overall causal chain. It’s like trying to improve upon bread baking, having never baked bread before. This isn’t too hard to understand though. But I find that even the fundamental methods that simply build the foundation are often hidden and secret. These methods aren’t too dangerous, they won’t cause confirmation bias - but they’ll definitely help people progress. I remember being given an ‘secret’ instruction after months of daily training with a school. In fact it was 98% the same training as what they teach in the open - with just a 2% difference (eg. ‘release this spot down to here’) - and that extra 2% made the technique work. Without, it simply didn’t work for the vast majority. I find this kind of thing distasteful personally. Ive even seen teachers give false information that creates specific ‘holes’ in the student’s body. This basically gives the teacher a way to control the students.

Methods have always been very secretive in Daoism. Sadly some teachers, instead of turning people away, they’ll take on students, and give them incomplete or made up methods. Then the ones who learn these methods will become teachers themselves and pass on these faulty methods. This is how arts are lost. I personally believe that to a large extent, secrecy no longer has a place in the arts. The limiting factor should be sincerity and effort - not access to genuine methods. I think it’s unfair to knowingly string along a sincere student for years with false methodology. Luckily we’re seeing a wave of teachers starting to spread genuine methods throughout the western world. This is slowly replacing the imagination and choreography based stuff that made its way here in the 70s and 80s.

I find this sort of thing incredibly arrogant.

Sadly I've seen experienced practitioners working hard on false methods for decades.

In regards to ‘below the heart and above the kidneys’ - sounds like the ‘yellow court’ to me. On another note, Qi Hai is an acupuncture point - and should not be used for cultivation. Although the Lower Dantien is at the same horizontal plane as Qi Hai - they are two fundamentally different things... Many practitioners get it very wrong and focus on Qi Hai for years... this initially moves the Qi... But then eventually stagnates and creates all manner of issues. The Dantien is much deeper inside the body... it almost feels closer to the spine rather than the front of the abdomen.

Xiantian and Houtian systems have different approaches and use different Dantien placements. Energetic anatomy in Daoism is ‘pragmatic’ - in the sense it’s a map that’s designed to assist in utility, rather than a map designed to show ‘truth’ (which is the normal medical approach) So in a sense neither is wrong and both are accurate within their methodologies - and they don’t, in fact contradict each other on the level of ‘truth’ - they just have different ways of working with your subtle energy.

I’m sorry to hear that. There most certainly are a huge range of potential problems and pitfalls - and denying that is dangerous and can end up hurting people. It’s very hard to tell if you’re being given genuine instruction or ‘courtyard talk’. Sometimes courtyard talk is all that people have access to and they start to mistake it for the real teaching. In Buddhism there’s often meditation for laypeople (20 minute sits, lots of blessings, chants and so on) and there is the training that leads to Buddhahood... In my travels, I’ve found that if the sitting practices are shorter than 2 or 3hrs, it’s ‘meditation for laypeople’. Funnily enough many monks also only get the meditation for lay people version of the teachings. Talks for laypeople tend to be grand and philosophical - along the lines of: “Emptiness and luminosity are not two separate things, but rather the nature of emptiness is luminosity, and the nature of luminosity is emptiness. This indivisible emptiness-luminosity, the naked mind, free of everything, dwells in the uncreated state.“ Talks for serious cultivators tend to be challenging, direct and practical.

Meditation is often portrayed as a magic bullet... But it’s not. First of all what people call meditation is so varied. But mostly what they’re talking about is preparatory training for meditation (such as anapanasati or mindfulness) We want things to be simple - but they’re not. All change follows a process of cause and effect - and it’s a long process with many different parts and dependencies. To get anywhere one must follow a genuine process - not a combination of techniques they’ve picked up from books... but ‘do this to create that cause to achieve this result that sets you up for the next cause’ One doesn’t stumble onto the correct path accidentally or intuitively - that’s why you must have a correct method from beginning to end.

To be honest - what I’ve learned is that ‘wanting’ is by far the easiest part of any endeavour. The many aren’t prepared to sacrifice what it takes to awaken. what you sacrifice (the self), in the end reveals itself to be without an unchanging substance anyway. (courtyard talk )

This reminds me of a really delightful period in my life. It's the time when I first moved in with my teacher to live and study with him full-time... These days he's more like a father figure than a teacher - but back then it was an exciting period because I had heard of him years prior and it took a lot of hustling to get an introduction, then a lesson... (then a refusal to teach me...) then some more hustle... then finally an acceptance to be tested. Then months of lessons with his senior... Eventually after jumping all sorts of hurdles and going through a grueling period of training, he unexpectedly invited me to move into his home after an official ceremony. This was huge for me. This was the first teacher I'd met that had something more than just skill... something more than just wisdom... He had the kind of ease and humour that just made anything seem possible. And he was willing to teach me. He had a lovely, humble courtyard home with a few separate buildings. I lived with two other students in one building and teacher, his wife and an elderly aunt lived in another. AS students we'd train pretty much dusk till dawn in the central courtyard among a bunch of chickens, dogs and cats running around chasing one another. Life was simple - train, eat, do some chores, train more and then indoor lectures with some tea. At this point my teacher was just winding down his clinic. Because he was known to heal various issues caused by meditation or cultivation and major psychological issues, he'd be visited by some pretty colourful characters. Buddhist abbots, local celebrities, poets, politicians (or their wives!), rich fathers bringing their spoiled kids to get into training etc etc... My teacher would call it 'courtyard talk'. He'd get a call and be like 'ahh time for courtyard talk' - and go through the gate to meet someone out front. The home was set up with 3 separate courtyards - I guess similar to old Qing dynasty Beijing courtyard houses - but built very modestly out of breeze-blocks, tin roofs etc. The front courtyard was a bit more refined... He had all these cool statues, big stones, a finely tiled overhang roof, some old looking weapons, a small shrine, a little tea table, some charts and official looking things on the walls... This is where he'd have his 'courtyard talks'... These talks were a lesson in Chinese etiquette for me. Teacher seemed to be a different person in the front courtyard. Only a tiny bit of the discussion was translated for me... but it was obvious there was a 'front courtyard teacher' and 'inner door teacher'. Big smiles, lots of face-saving and complement giving. Expertly evading taking tips and gifts when possible. Even without understanding the language you could see through facial expressions just how skilled teacher was in 'courtyard talk'. To get into the inner courtyard you'd have to go up a couple of steps, open the ornate door, go down some steps and you're in a super charming but much more rough-around-the-edges space. (the seemingly pointless steps were to stop ghosts apparently ) Over tea is when teacher would explain theory to us. But there was a running joke that would go something like this... teacher would give us some profound insight on a method - (he even had the patience to translate everything for me in his perfect colonial-era English.) Then a student would say something like "but teacher you told your guest that alchemy is just superstition and that his son should just focus on painting instead!?" - teacher would say "ahh yes - courtyard talk." and we'd laugh. And courtyard talk varied - he'd talk of virtue to Buddhists, of philosophy to businessmen, of yin and yang to Daoists, of forgotten needling techniques to acupuncturists... I observed a few layers to the discussion of cultivation. Philosophy, principles, techniques and methods... The majority of 'courtyard talk' was philosophy - though philosophy never made it past the inner gate. Teacher would say that philosophy is to delight the spirit through affecting the heart-mind - this is not for cultivators. Principles and techniques would be open for discussion with other cultivators (and not laypeople - even when requested)... an example of discussion would be on 'Dan Tien Xi Qi' (dan tien inhales the qi)... What does that mean, why do we do it, what are some errors, what are some confirmatory signs etc... What would never be discussed outside of the inner door was methods. And it was clear that many visitors would try to get to methods during 'courtyard talk' - and that's where teacher would demonstrate his social-taiji skills... how to navigate not talking about secrets but still giving the visitor what they want. I recently came across a quote from a Tibetan teacher that perfectly illustrates a valuable 'courtyard lesson' that teacher would give: "When facing death, kings and beggars are treated in the same manner. After death, every sentient being will be thrown around in samsara by their positive and negative karma. Therefore, it is very unwise to commit a negative action, while thinking solely about benefiting this present life." Teacher would often say things like this (particularly to the many Buddhists that came to visit)... But during a tea time talk, in the inner courtyard, he'd make it clear that this is courtyard talk only... Cultivators need not concern themselves about positive or negative karma. Cultivators must release all karma - whether good or bad, by transforming density into light - then he'd demonstrate - first by drawing trigrams and showing the change in state on the causal level of the qi field... then he'd close his eyes and demonstrate it within us. Many life altering changes were made in these demonstrations... then the next day he would show us how we would go about doing it for ourselves (methods). Teacher would go through several classics just like this. Each starting with principles, moving into the direct causal understanding using the Yi Jing - and finally experiencing it directly, tangibly in the body... "Emptiness should be taken to its extreme and the stillness guarded" (DDJ 16) - is an unambiguous instruction with a direct tangible experience internally... or it's poetic philosophy... depends which courtyard you're in. Daoism is strange... there are layers - and layers within layers... there are outer perceptions and inner truths... There's a constant dance of paradox and humorous misdirection. There's courtyard talk with laypeople... there's courtyard talk with cultivators... and there's several layers of inner door talk. If it all seems a bit over the top and complex, I completely agree. But once you get past the outer layers things are very direct, clear and tangible... The most complex principles or internal operations can be taught by drawing a few lines and then be experienced directly inside. "Breathing Out - Touching the Root of Heaven, One's heart opens; The Dragon slips by like water.. Breathing In - Standing on the Root of Earth, One's heart is still and deep; The Tiger's claw cannot be moved." Thinking you understand 'the truth' is all well and good... but sometimes you've been given a highly satisfying (or maybe frustratingly unsatisfying) courtyard talk and not the full picture.

I think it’s the other way round, no? Whenever I post about the alchemical approach suddenly out pops Dwai with his views... which is fine... But the sheer repeatability and predictability of it tickles me Dwai. The repeated assertion that you’re right and everyone else wrong is also what tickles me. No ‘in my view’ not ‘from the point of view of such and such school of advaita’... You’re very firmly set in your views which is quite funny to me. Well - it seems you mean ‘some of our views’. Or do you not see your views as views anymore? So to answer you - i respond to you because I’m tickled. When any of my friends get overly entrenched in their opinion, they get teased. Even my teacher teases me when I get too serious with practice. We’ve gone round this discussion over and over. So At this point any notion that this is a productive, rational exchange is out the window - so I tease you instead Clear as mud I’m afraid. Oh dear. That’s a bit cringey Dwai. I think you’ve misjudged how incisive your insight is to others.

I enjoyed that passage, thanks. But my guess is we took slightly different understandings of it...

You’re gonna need to be a bit more direct Dwai. I’m not good a deciphering wise talk. Sounds to me like you’re saying that many of the spiritual disciplines are based on confusion. And their ascended masters became confused in the passing on of their teachings? All these immortals and rainbow body ascensions are all a mistake because of a simple misunderstanding. But luckily we have you because you’ve managed to unveil the truth of their mistake?

Well that’s certainly along the lines of what I’m wondering... But Dwai is smarter than that, I’m sure he’ll have a well-reasoned response - I expect some sort of reframing of the question so as not to answer it directly 😬 The spiritual politician’s answer

What I’m curious about, Dwai is according to you, where did all these other traditions that don’t subscribe to your views go wrong!? Thousands of reportedly enlightened people - in multi-thousand year traditions within Daoism, Buddhism through to Hinduism and even esoteric lines within the judeochristian traditions - all seem to have overshot something pretty simple according to you. If you’re right, then all this time and energy has been completely wasted by some of the greatest minds who ever lived. how come? what went wrong?

Ooooo my ears are burning Dwai!

Oh - I thought @Cleansox was having a joke... but maybe not!

You seem to know a lot about millions of people's motivations! I think you may have managed to achieve the supernatural yourself!

I can see! Great questions by the way. I'll do my best to answer - but there's a caveat... Which is that what I say about these subjects is very much my understanding and interpretation of what I've been told - not experience. Although I've met and trained with people at or near some of these levels of attainment I'm nowhere near any of this myself. The truth is that the map is not the territory - so this theoretical understanding is only really an approximation - and there are definitely exceptions to the rule... ----- So first of all it's not the case that Shengren (Sage), Zhenren (Enlightened) and Xian (Immortal) are different paths per se. They're attainments that could be achieved by various paths... However it is said that Sagehood is achievable without specific training - it can unfold spontaneously as a result of your karma/ming and probably past lives of cultivation (though it's extremely rare) ----- What's a lot more common is 'sudden awakening' - which I've heard described as 'Wu' (awakened) - and that is an experience of the realisation of the illusory nature of self (but not the transformation of it). This can happen spontaneously and almost randomly - this state isn't discussed very much because it's not seen as an 'attainment' by the Daoists... although it's a major topic of modern 'self-awakened' teachers in the west. I've heard my teachers explain that this is not necessarily a positive thing either (if it happens outside of formal spiritual training) - and can result in a spiral into deep depression or egotism that often turns into 'evil'. Once you realise that your nature is empty, without the light of your spirit (or a spiritual tradition) to guide you - you can easily turn this 'meaninglessness' into dark despair, and an uncanny ability to hurt yourself and others without feeling guilt or remorse. Basically it can be the making of a sociopath ----- Even if you have the karma, and thousands of lifetimes of cultivation behind you, it's considered that the attainments of Zhenren or the higher levels of Xianhood are not possible without an external method and teacher. (Though you can become a ghost immortal ) ----- There's a Daoist path that predates alchemy - and the result of it is becoming a Shengren - and the very best explanation (and in fact coded instruction) of this is the Dao De Jing. Although saying this, the DDJ does have some alchemical methodology in it too - probably added later in history. The primary practices that lead to Shengren are Zuowang (sitting forgetting) and Xin Zhain (heart-mind fasting)... This is what transforms the emotions into 'De' or virtues. From what I've been told, that actually the path of the DDJ is pretty much closed to people because of various cyclical factors. And that for the vast majority some 'tantric' or energetic work is also required... (probably why some alchemical methods were added to the DDJ) Although I also suspect if you live in the wilderness with no human contact or modernity, you might just manage it. ----- Basically it's to do with Qi. Qi works as a catalyst between different 'states'... it's the catalyst between heaven and earth, mind and body, physical and spiritual etc etc. If you have (a lot of) Qi, then change can occur on all levels, including the physical... If you don't have a lot of qi, to keep your transformed state of consciousness, you must become a renunciate - live in a cave in the wilderness or become a monk etc. If you have Qi and you're transformed on all levels, your state is not subject to external forces and the change becomes permanent and irreversible. Hopefully that makes some sense. ----- So I can't discuss the alchemical specifics - but stream entry in the Quanzhen Daoist tradition is the development of the alchemical pill and entry into the Xuan Men (Mysterious Gate). This stage and up is also a period of becoming a renunciate for some years for Daoists (and usually forever for non-alchemical paths). Practice at this stage tends to transcend the laws of nature - when you hear of people meditating for years without food and water and almost no breath or heartbeat. Appearing in different places at the same time... Levitating... transforming physical structures... etc etc - basically all those other hard to believe supernatural things. This is that process. In many ways you cease being 'human'. One does not enter the stream without years of preparation (including practical preparation!) Usually you need a place that will be undisturbed, you'll need assistants to come watch that nothing goes wrong with your body... any friends and family will need to say goodbye to you - because it won't really be 'you' that comes back (after 9yrs or however long it takes) - but a physical representation of your Original Spirit... This is the stage past the 4th Jhana. The Buddhist group I know that does this type of stuff uses 'external' alchemy along with transmission from teachers past this level (mostly out of body as I understand it). This stage is considered past Sagehood and entering into the initial stages of Enlightenment... One reason is that when someone comes back from this retreat they physically radiate light (not in the 'inner vision' - it's visible light that a camera would pick up) - and the light is often strongest around the head... ----- What exactly has been dropped - basically 'movement' - and it's been replaced with stability... There is no longer emotional movement - there's no reactivity, no changes in emotional states. You see something that used to please you, and at this stage you feel no reactive joy... Apparently it's one of the most difficult stages to go through. When this stage matures, you start to radiate the virtues instead of the emotions... The virtues are constant, stable, balanced and non-reactive... for instance you cant help but love someone cutting you off in traffic as much as you love your child or spouse... conversely you also can't love your child more than Trump say... You navigate the world not through its appearances, but through the causal plane of reality (this is the De of 'Wisdom')... In essence it's like you're reading the Yi Jing process unfolding in front of you and below the apparent nature of reality. This level of transformation is what makes one into a Sage The Sage's actions are often seen as crazy (crazy wisdom) - their behaviour appears random - they might ride on an ox backwards like a weirdo for example... or they might slap a man that greets them warmly... but the outcome of their action always unfolds in a benevolent direction because they respond at the causal level underlying the appearance of reality. ----- So I've probably not aanswered any of your questions properly But that's what I've got. I typed fast - so please forgive the rambling nature of the post. As you cna imagine, each question deserves a a book of its own! But hopefully it's at least somewhat useful.

Yup it’s a method called Wai Qi Liao Fa - a healing method which is pretty common and reasonably easy to do once your LDT is at 50% or so. Although from what I understand it’s pretty much banned in China (unless the clinic is skilled in the art of bribary) The later videos show something a lot more advanced and requires your LDT to be at close to 100% and your Yi Jing Jin to be complete, with your channels fully open... along with some special training to be able to move all that power.

Which, funnily enough, is one of the main signs of Jing dispersion and turbidity - precisely the opposite of what we’re aiming for in these arts

For me personally, that would be pretty low quality of evidence. Fun but not nearly some kind of proof of the supernatural. The pattern recognition aspect of cloud watching is way too prone to confirmation bias.