innerspace_cadet

In that case, then there is no way to know that there is an objective world at all. We should just resort to agnosticism about it then. If living, conscious observers are relatively recent in the history of the universe, then there there could be something called "objective reality" indepedent of observers. But we don't have any evidence of that yet.

How so?

I think there is such a thing as consensus reality. If I am at a party, and I am the only person in the room who sees an elf dancing on the table, I am either 1) hallucinating or 2) in possession of an ability to perceive what others cannot. But if 2) is true, then how did I acquire this perception and why do others not perceive as I do? If this elf has broken into our reality from some parallel dimension, then my fellow party goers would perceive it as well, because the elf is in our reality. Just because we perceive everything through our senses, it does not necessarily follow that there is no objective world. Stating that "there is no such thing as an objective world" is not the same as being agnostic about it. We can only be gnostic about what we perceive, as long as others in the same time and place perceive the same object.

I personally don't believe in happiness...at least not in the way most ordinary Americans would term it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm happy" I am so tempted to ask them why they are happy. Not that there should be a "why" to authentic happiness (bliss). But I think most self consciously "happy" people would say one of the following: Because I have a fulfilling job. Because I have a beautiful wife whom I love dearly. Because I make a lot of money. Because I have a lot of friends. And so on and so forth. But what if you were to lose all of the above? True happiness can withstand any calamity, no matter how devastating or frightening. Most Americans--myself included--would not be able to withstand such things. That's why I am very reluctant to call myself happy. That is also why I am suspicious of people who self consciously call themselves happy. People like that remind me of people who call themselves spiritual but who don't have a clue what they're talking about.

The essence of spirituality is dropping an "us versus them" mentality. The essence of spirituality is not letting some guru or pastor tell you what to think. The essence of spirituality is favoring being over having. The essence of spirituality is admitting to yourself that you don't know jack shit. The essence of spirituality is being what you are, not what you aren't. The essence of spirituality is not frittering away your life in the hopes of a good afterlife. The essence of spirituality is knowing that happiness is nothing compared to bliss. The essence of spirituality is taking what I've just said with a grain of salt.

This thread reminds me of a scene from the movie "Police Academy". The police chief or commissioner is at an Oriental restaurant with the police academy instructor. Anyway, there's this Asian guy who is doing this elaborate ritual with the wok or whatever. And in his frustration, the police chief says "is all that crap necessary?" when all along the Asian guy just had to buckle down and cook the food. My point is that there is no point in getting so caught up in the rituals, gods goddesses, demons, spirits of Taoism--especially not for a Westerner. It isn't necessary. If you practice Taoism for greater inner peace, just practice. Do Tai Chi, qigong, or meditate. This is not about acquiring a new set of beliefs. Don't even believe in the Tao; strive to become the Tao.

I'm looking to drop some bad habits, and I am looking into hypnotism to change them. Does anyone here have experience with self hypnosis in dropping bad habits? What do you think of it?

I've been a member of e-sangha since 2005, but I haven't posted there in months. I can't say I really miss the place though; I've met Evangelical Christians who are more open minded than some of the sutra thumpers at e-sangha. For a while, I took what they said at face value as being "true" Buddhism, but now I know better than to think that Buddhism is some doctrinal monolith that they make it out to be. Come to think of it, I actually think e-sangha hindered my practice of Buddhism with their insistence that a person should accept literal rebirth without questioning it. Even though I was always deeply skeptical about literal rebirth, I saw some value in practicing Buddhism, but the endless debates about rebirth on e-sangha sidetracked me--because I started to buy into their bullshit that somehow I wasn't Buddhist enough for not accepting that doctrine, or that I needed to believe in it as some prerequisite to practicing Buddhism. I don't rule rebirth out, I'm just an agnostic about it. I hope they get their site back up and running, but I also hope that they seriously re-examine the culture they are creating by banning so many people who simply have honest doubts.

I posted earlier about the fact that the only spiritual practice I've stuck with is Tai Chi. I've practiced consistently for 3 months, even when I didn't want to. The bold text is crucial, because I think one of the biggest obstacles to sticking with a spiritual practice is continuing to practice when the initial enthusiasm--or the novelty of the practice--has worn off. So, what I'm asking is, besides forcing yourself to engage in a spiritual practice, what other strategies do you use to stick with what you're practicing for the long haul? Is it important that you find a spiritual practice that you enjoy practicing, while you are practicing it? Or is some force necessary because you see some benefit in the future? With Tai Chi, for me it was both; I enjoyed it while I was practicing, but also kept in mind the long term benefits of sticking with it. And even when I didn't feel like practicing, I reminded myself of the consequences of falling behind. I'd like to incorporate possibly raja yoga into my life, but my mind tells me I don't have the "discipline" to stick with it. Maybe that is because my ego feels threatened by what yoga might do to it. There are parts of my psyche that react so powerfully to yoga--with fear. I feel like there is some part of me that doesn't want to practice yoga, perhaps because its existence feels threatened by it. Maybe I'm on to something here; the spiritual practices that my ego feels the most threatened by I should undertake! What do you guys think?

Yes! That's it. I think you have to keep in mind why you are practicing, so that the "how" is less difficult. In some spiritual circles, speaking about the goal is de-emphasized so you hear things like "the path is the goal" or some nonsense like that. But to reach a goal, you have to keep in mind why you are trying to attain that goal. And you have to really want to reach your goal, if you are going to have any chance of reaching it. However, you can't put a timeline on spiritual enlightenment; you can't say to yourself "my goal is to become enlightened by 2012" because it doesn't work that way. The most you can do is strive towards meditating two hours a day by 2012. I think discipline has become a dirty word in the West, because we want instant results. The recent incident in the sweat lodge where three people died is a prime example. Their spiritual guru promised instant results, so therefore he pushed his followers beyond their normal limits and people wound up dead.

Here is what I would advise you to tell them: Taoism is a religion, a philosophy--and most importantly--a way of life that originated in China. Taoists believe in living in harmony with the "Tao" which translates as "way." It is the "way" of the universe that governs all of the changes that we see around us. When a person lives by the "three jewels" of moderation, humility and compassion, that person is living the Way. You could then explain that since every person has their own individual nature, no two "ways" are going to be the same. But as long as a person lives a life characterized by balance, that person is in harmony with the Way. If asked, "what do Taoists do" or "what do Taoists practice" you could explain the basics of Tai Chi, qigong, the internal martial arts, the I Ching, Feng Shui, etc.

People who have absolute certitude about things they haven't yet experienced--such as death--I would normally stay away from. People like that tend to be religious fanatics. Personally, I think the only power you can have over death is not to be afraid of it; that is the only real immortality. Of course, I could be wrong, and there could be an afterlife, but I'm not going to hold my breath. It's amazing the number of spiritual "seekers" who want prefabricated "answers" from Eastern religions about life and death and what comes after. I'm suspicious of any belief system that has an answer for everything; it has the effect of choking the mystery out of life and death. If you need some belief about what happens after death, you are just masking your fear of death. This thread really strikes a chord with me, because I have struggled with these questions too. I've come to the conclusion that I don't need a whole lot of beliefs, let alone a whole belief system, to lead a fulfilling existence. Of course, I might think differently on my death bed; I might just chicken out and hope for a "good rebirth." But the fact that there are very few atheists in foxholes does not necessarily prove that there is a God--or an afterlife. The universe will take its own course, whether you want it to or not. It doesn't care about your beliefs.

It doesn't surprise me. It's funny how the bible thumpers get their panties all up in a bunch over Halloween, and everyone else just parties and has a good time.

Over the years, I've explored Vipassana, Zen, Advaita Vedanta, shamanism, you name it, but the only spiritual practice I've learned to stick with is Tai Chi. I started studying under a certified Tai Chi teacher in August, and now it is October, and I'm still studying under her. Until now, I was becoming convinced of my "spiritual materialism" and fickleness. It is refreshing to discover that there is at least something I can stick with! She teaches the official short Chinese combined form of Tai Chi, which involves 21 moves, and I'm only up to "single whip" which is maybe move 6 or 7. I think sometimes you just need the right teacher in the right environment. I used to study the Yang long form under a kung fu teacher, but the class sizes were too large and included teenagers. Don't get me wrong, he was an excellent teacher, but it wasn't right for me. During this experience, I've learned the true meaning of discipline: you practice even when you don't feel like it, because in your heart you know it will benefit you. I take the Tai Chi class every Thursday, and there have been many Thursdays where I just wanted to stay home and veg out, but I pushed myself to attend every class. But I have a question: is Tai Chi a spiritual path by itself? Does a person need to complement it with anything?

If you want to know the essence of Lao Tzu's teachings, I will share with you a simple parable. Lao Tzu once went out on long walks with one of his disciples. One day, the sun was setting in the sky, and it displayed the most beaufitul colors of orange and red. His disciple suddently exclaimed "what a beautiful sunset." Lao Tzu refused to walk with the disciple any more. This is because the disciple was adamant about labeling reality, whereas Lao Tzu simply experienced it.

Thank you. I will take your advice to heart.

They were sort of like shamans in the sense that they consumed hallucinogens to transform their consciousness. Jim Morrison was a prime example of this. But he really became a target of the cops and the authorities who saw him as a threat. In traditional cultures, shamans are accepted and supported by the community; but in America, Morrison was arrested no fewer than 10 times during his career. The problem with the sixties, however, is that it provoked a backlash from conservatives that is still going on today. I think the sixties generation should have gone through a more gradual path rather than trying to upend everything overnight.

I have to agree with Taomeow; I've found that the more I try to understand reality, the less I know. It's like holding on to a wet fish: if you squeeze it too hard, it will slip away. And to answer your second question, yes, there are teachers out there, and most of them are just there to take your money. But the best ones will point you to the best teacher--yourself. A guru can only take you as far along the spiritual path as he or she has gone. Just don't be an idiot and pay a thousand dollars for a mantra, or a hundred for some seminar.

"Do or do not. There is no try." --Yoda

"Happiness is the absence of striving for happiness." -- Chuang Tzu

I'd like to buy some kettlebells for strength and cardio training, since I'm not a part of a gym and the weather outside is getting colder. So, has anyone here had good experiences with them? I'm thinking of getting a 10 lb. kettlebell for starters. Any recommendations as to how heavy a weight to start out with, which exercises to do for beginners, etc?

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. I might just go down to the nearest target to get one.

Karma and original sin are both suspect, in my view. I really don't think our actions have any consequences beyond this lifetime; I would be surprised if they did. Even if there is such a thing as rebirth, I don't believe our actions influence the result of future rebirths. And I don't think the simple act of pouring water over someone's head (Catholicism) can remove his original human depravity, because none exists to begin with. Life is meant to be lived to the fullest, without fear of being punished in some future life or lives. All these concepts of "sin" and "karma" and "morality" are purely human constructs. That is not to say, however, that some actions are not objectively harmful to others, because they are. But to posit some future punishment for "karma" or "sin" is ridiculous. Both karma and sin operate from a child's sense of morality; I must do such and such, because if I don't, I will get punished. And if I am a good boy I will get such and such as a reward. I've always questioned notions like "heaven" and "hell" because there is no such thing as an absolutely "heavenly" or "hellish" experience. Everything is relative. My existence on earth is heavenly to a Sudanese refugee, but it might be hellish to a Wall Street fat cat.

My mother's boyfriend- now deceased- was a second generation Irish American. He once said his parents thought it was bad luck to exit a house out of a different door than the one you entered through. Any time you entered through the front door, you had to leave the house from the same door.

I know that in Yoga and Buddhism, equanimity (upekkha) is highly valued, but what about Taoism? How do Taoists reach that state where even extremely difficult circumstances do not disturb their inner tranquility? Thanks.