Pietro

For what I know, when a man is fully celibate; when he does not even warm up the energy at all; then various things can happen. One of them is that the body may go back to a pre-adolescent (or maybe even pre-puberal) stage. The testicles becoming smaller. The glands inside the sack having the possibility to re-enter in the body. Even the penis might become smaller. So much for using those techniques to beat the macho challenge ;-). I know all this because it was told to me long time ago, in a non formal way, as part of a conversation. We were discussing how many men are interested in celibacy, but few knew (or are willing) to bring it to this next phase. Phase which is, to my understanding, the natural outcome of this practice. Does anybody knows more. Spare me the alarmist cry, tell me instead which texts you know off that mention this. Even passingly. Both authentic taoists texts (possibly translated) or modern instructions books from western taoists teachers. Many thanks, Pietro

Since the question have been running around about how many people are straight and how many people are not, I decided to make the poll. I tried to make it exhaustive. Even at the cost of sounding funny sometimes. Also since some question can really be private I am making the poll not public. The division on the 5 elements came from a discussion with Bruce where explained us how people can be divided into those 5 groups, although everybody is a bit of a mix. It was not so much part of the water method teachings (although there might be something in that tradition too), but of his training as a priest, and as such we were not taught. It was more like a piece of trivia we were given. I added an extra situation that seem to capture what we are usually expected from this society. So you can vote that as well. Please be grateful that the website only permit 3 questions and 20 options... Out of a request from Apech I changed the last options from not enough intellectual sharing into none of the above. If your biggest problem is that you have too much intellectual sharing, well click on it too, essentially you are ok ;-)

Ok, I tried the first time and it didn't worked. Maybe the connection went down. Let's use THIS thread just to discuss the name of the site. Since this discussion group is not threaded, if we don't apply some threads by hand it will soon be unbearably caotic. For me I like TaoBums or TaoDrunks Also t.au is free it could be a good choice. Pietro

In Colombia a new game is being played among kids: it's called "Roulette Sexual", and the kids stand in two concentric circles, girls, boys. At a signal they get undressed from the waist down. And they need to penetrate as many girls as possible "without" ejaculating. Who ejaculates is out. The age of the participants: between 10 and 19. (probably younger kids in this range would do it among them, but I have no idea). As an additional data I will add that the age of consent in Colombia is 14. As you can expect the number of abortion has increased, and in fact it was the fact that a girl got pregnant, and she did not know who the father was alerted the parents (who I suppose alerted the authorities). There is a number of video on this kind of stuff on youtube (in Spanish), and even groups for them to organise on facebook (search term: rouleta sexual), and the age of the participants in those groups is consistent with the info above. So there are a lot of issues over here. There is the whole age factor. As people participating fall into 4 age range: adults, not adult but over the age of consent, before the age of consent but over puberty, and maybe even before puberty. Then there is the whole safety part, both respect to STD, and respect to getting pregnant especially because no protection was involved, nor any HIV test beforehand. And finally, the whole "no ejaculation". I mean, where did they got this from? Now, there are no Healing Love instructors in Colombia in the Universal Tao directory. Do you think they just figured that out by themselves? Personally I would have no problems for something similar among adult, trained taoists, who have done the necessary tests. And I am pretty sure it must have happened in the post in China. What do you think?

Hi Cat, long time no see. I did not expect anyone of the old guard to be still here after so much time. What's the situation, now? The second link works on me, it goes to a search page of youtube videos. They appear as bubbles, and each bubble is a video. Bubbles on top are videos that have been seen more (in the same time).

I don't know why but everywhere I look I see the same discussion over and over again. And they go in circles. But the people who are discussing are obviously enjoying it a lot. So I am left wandering if I have grown beyond this community, or is the community that has changed so much that I don't recognise it anymore. Most discussion seem to be around: this or that teacher (this would be interesting, but maybe because I am happy with mine, I don't find them attractive), what will happen in the year 2012 or 2020 (as if anyone had a clue) what is reality (and ghosts-threads are under here too) quantum-stuff farewells and topics more generally about what is taoism, and is this taoism, or is that taoism. I am missing the kunlun's and the lizardmen which are not so high in the hitparade, but that is pretty much all. And it is not changing. I am not trying to be negative (maybe succeedng, but surely not trying). I just would like to have some feedback. I don't seem anymore the same people (which can be good), but with them it seems that the experience also left. And I see people going around in circles. Maybe I was not the only one who got bored. I see some people leaving with great announcements (no I am not announcing my departure, I am trying just to understand). And people having probably left in a more quiet Way. Had we developed any experience in those years? Have we suceeded in passing it on? Have we even tried to?

This is an amazing talk from ted.com: Dan Gilbert: Why are we happy Essentially the main message is that when we are given a choise, that we cannot change, we are going eventually to be more happy than if in the choise we could change the result at any time. It also shows how most of the events that happen to us REALLY MAKE no difference to our level of happiness. Now according to traditional taoism (as was teached to me), 99% of the events that happen to us do not matter, and only very few, say 1%, matters. Funny that Taoism got it right, in a topic which is so counter intuitive. I have seen this talk many times, and I am still absorbing what does this mean. What does it really mean in terms of how should I change my way of living, thinking, acting, following those results. Please do not just read this message, see the video. It is only 18 minutes long. It is worth to spend 18 minutes for something that might change your whole life philosophy! I'd love to hear what the other members of this community have to say about this!

Let's make a game: A person asks a taoist concept. The next person must find a scene from a movie which explains, give an example, help to understand, that concept. Extra points if the person finds the youtube video that represents it. Then this second person asks for another Taoist Concept. And so on. What movie would you use to explain (and give an example of) the concept: the yin stimulates the yang Present the movie, the scene in the movie (if possible), maybe add the youtube sequence, and then ask for another taoist concept to be represented.

Wu wei, non doing, and nothing gets undone. But then for creative people there are plenty of things that you would naturally do. And the result is that you end up lacking focus. We cut the useless branch in a tree to strengthen the ones that will bear fruit. But the Taoist natural farmer Fukuoka would not do so. Any suggestion

Science studies what can be measured. Religion guesses on the rest.

The nearest I can think of is: the Star Trek episode "The Apple" from the Original series. Kirk & C explore a planet where a group of people live controlled by Vaar, a God-like creature. Vaar is actually a computer in a cave. Vaar protects them, keeps them safe, but also forbids any sex, and thus they have no children. The people in the village also do not grow old. Once Kirk and the other "gauge out holes" in the computer, the villagers loose their state. Start to grow old, and will need to have sex again to have children. The episode is available through Torrent. I could not find any satisfactory part of it on YouTube as the message is in the whole episode. And now, please someone illustrates the hexagrams 13 and 14 (as hexagrams come in pairs I am asking for the principle that is behind this couple, or the dynamic between the two, not for one of them).

Taomeow, no one can beat you on yin. But, now please, can you make your request so the game can go on?

Since Desert Eagle did not ask for something I will. But first I will give my interpretation of leading without controlling. In the movie, il Mostro (the monster), Benigni is believed to be a dangerous criminal by the people. At some point he is recognized and the mob wants to kill him. Please look at minute 1:15 to 1:35 how he leads them far away from himself. Now please can someone explain the difference between compressing and collapsing.

Not hard to answer: But now please someone now clarify with a clip the difference between false yin and true yin.

Ok, I'm officially surprised

You can't. Hexagram 4 describes this situation.

(thanks Desert Eagle) So, Anamatva, it is now your round to ask (or dare) for a taoist concept to be explained. Again, the rules are the following: A person asks a taoist concept. The next person must find a scene from a movie which explains, give an example, help to understand, that concept. Extra points if the person finds the youtube video that represents it. Then this second person asks for another Taoist Concept. And so on. Let's not miss the "and so on" part of the description.

NOTE: There is no correlation between the two phrases. People who won the lottery and people who lost the use of their legs are also equally happy after 6 months of the event. Our statistical happiness is not very much correlated with the benefits we have.

oh, really, I see and your sources are...

I don't think that all roads leads to Rome. And on this I am in open disagreement not just with most people in this forum but also with many of my teachers, Bruce included. first of all not all tradition have the same concept of salvation. A christian saint, a zen awakened, a taoist immortal are not the same thing. Now you could say that this is because they are not arrived, but this is a logical fallacy. If you say that the zen enlightened after reaching enlightenment needs to continue you are essentially saying that "zen" does not lead to Rome. But that zen+christianity is needed. But some of the premises in Christianity are simply wrong, false, not accepted in Buddhism. SO now the poor guy needs to develop his own version of Christianity. Something which in different times would have led him to be burned at the stake. So this is my first claim: not all tradition lead to the same place, and taking one tradition as a continuation after another is not an acceptable interpretation of the phrase "all roads". Also some traditions are incomplete. Like some martial arts school. They know what they know, the might have lost some. Still what they teach is valid. SO a meditation school might be able to teach you how to reach a sense of fulfillment. Or feeling one with nature. Or releasing past trauma. Expecting each meditation school to be able to teach all, is just an expectations begging to go unfulfilled. So some meditation school will teach some things that others will not. Then we have the issue of side track. While you have a school, that is teaching something that is valid. There are also many wring turns. Things that will make you lose a lot of time. Or just make put you in danger. You can lose your life, health, friends, mental health, and so on. Or just make you addicted to the wrong thing. And this also applies at the school level. Not only some schools teach different things, but they also can be more or less fast, and more or less safe. Usually there is a compromise that needs to be find between safety and speed. Schools that are faster are usually less safe. And schools that are safer might need more time. Hopefully a school that is both unsafe and slow will go extinct, while a school that is both fast and safe will achieve so much that the others would get extinguished. Evolution at the level of meditative traditions. So we have different schools. With different aims. With different arrival points. With different speed and different level of safety. So much for all roads leading to Rome. I think a more serious point of view would be to look historically where did the idea that all traditions were equivalent came from. In the middle ages no one thought so. And if all roads lead to Rome, why would "the Christ" needed to come and "complete the law", if the law was already leading to a road that was leading to Rome. I have been looking back and trying to find out where this idea came from, but could not go very far. Gandhi was a great proponent of it. He said he was a Muslim and an Indu and a Christian. I kind of remember that I could go back to William James, but that's about it. Can someone point out to previous thinkers who suggested it? Btw, I am going to Rome this week end! And, Marblehead, the fact of ROme being such a hub, means that you have roads going radially in all directions. So you will hardly find indications for other places, but indications for one of those roads. Like AURELIA ---------->

so after Steam clarification, I am the pig, LOL! Wonderful! Or: Taoist aged like good wine; able to do the 9 thrust at the speed of 1 or 1 at the speed of 9; able to tap into your deep yin and raise it slowly (as it was meant to be!); able to feel and dissolve blockages in the back of your body while looking you in the eyes. Looking for a spontaneous female taoist with integrity, balance and compassion to ascend to heaven together laughing!

Hi Vortex, I was speaking of my own experience. I had a bad first time also. It was good for me. That year, after my first time, I had two girl friends. And then the next year more. I can't really remember now who I went with, back then. But that first time, that bad time, it was all I needed to stop thinking about women as some sort of door to a magical place. Who cares? Non is not a woman, and women who are 20 don't need to pay for sex. A young woman who had to pay for sex might feel that way, but a young man would have less reason to feel so. At his age it is very common for men to need sex than for women. Women need less sex, and are socially much less awkward. Right now any girl can twist Non on the back of her pinky finger, only because of how needy he is. Women who pay for sex are usually older, female professionists usually too busy to enter the dating scene. Or who gain so much that have a hard time finding a mate that earns more than them. We are different, we have different unfulfilled needs from society, society has developed different strategies to fulfill those needs. Go, go, get a massage. Maybe the first time you ask her not to give you any extra.

maybe. Depends on how it is structured. In okcupid there are more women than men. It really has to do a lot on how much the site permits deeper communication, versus just advertising for sex. Also the site I envision would have a space to explain what are you able to do (do you retain? are you multiorgasmic?...) and if someone lies, then the first female that finds it out can write a report like on couchsurfing. In fact it would be fun to have a dating site with people writing reports :-). SUddenly everybody becoming very nice because they don't want that the last girlfriend (or boyfriend) gets in the way to the next one.

That's quite common, indeed.

Embarrassed, why? What's shameful about them? I go to chinese massage places all the time. You are a man, you have needs, if the girls do not satisfy you are you going to suffer or beg? One day, maybe, I will tell you about my first time. But believe me, many people pay the first time And then women stop having so much power over you. And then someone will fall in love for you, and you will laugh about all this.