Pietro

In another thread it was mentioned that one of the painful bits we need to go through is what is called the Dark Night of the Soul. The term is actually Christian, and by my very limited understanding represent a period of pain, depression, isolation and deep suffering that is seen as needed for a person on a spiritual path to purge himself (or herself). The term comes from a book from S.Giovanni de la Croce (St John of the Cross ?) in the 16th century. Now here is the question does everybody go through a dark night of the soul? And is it inevitable? I will suggest here that for Taoists it is not inevitable. This comes out of a lesson that Bruce gave many years ago (I think Ulm, 2000, workshop on the 16 nei gung system). What we were told is that through the dissolving process energy gets released. Now as this energy is released it needs the body to be clear enough to recycle it. If this does not happen it can remain again stuck, ataching to preexisting blocks. A bit like if you have some dirt on a river in two different points, and you release the one which is more near the source, the debris will go down and join the one downstream. Now you don't have two blockages anymore, but one... but bigger, much bigger. So the idea is that as the energy is released, it makes a huge difference if the channel downstream is clear or not. The channel downstream, in this explenation, would be the physical body, the energetic body, maybe even the emotional body (respect to the mental), and so on. I recall that according to Bruce teachings the human body is actually composed of 8 bodies, that go from physical, to energetic, to emotionals, mental, psychic, karmic/causal, body of identity, tao. So the taoist way is to be always aware of its physical body, and make sure through qi gung, and calisthenic practices, and diet and all the rest that your connection to the eart is clear. If this is there, then the dark night of the soul would not be so dark. Viceversa if the physical body is not clear, and we don't start from the physical body, then whateer we go through, and release, will work its way to our other bodies, and get stuck there. So a tradition that does not start with phisical practices, but with mental or emotional ones, runs the risk of making a person going through some harsh times before "going back to see the light". If this is true then we should have darker night of the soul in traditions that have a stronger phisical component. So Buddhism more than Taoism. Buddhism more than Yoga. Zen more than chan. Christian more than Buddhism. Thoughts? Emotions? Actions?

You know, my lay teacher of religion in high school had a degree in teology: dogmatic. She was really brilliant, so much that now and then (on average every 5 years) I still look for her, and we go have something to eat and chat. She could make you understand dogma as something (??!!) positive (??!!) inside the christian faith. Her take was that dogma is a series of claim and assertion who are to be accepted or left without particular mental dialectic. And that as such are used to define a group of people as participants to a particular community (I kind of recall from 20 years ago). There was no mention (or claim) that those claims were absolute truths, just a tool to distinguish who is in, and who is seeing the world differently. When years later I told her I was studying kan and li, she answered on the spot: "hmm, that was hexagram 63, if I recall well". Indeed quite a unique high school christian religious teacher.

Vajrahridaya, I just post this to let you know that I have added you to my ignore list. As your post will still in part appear as quoted by other users, I will take you off from that list when I feel your contributions will be more limited, up to the point, and constructive. Till then, Pietro

What happened? Also, I would not be surprised if people advertising taoism on e-shangha gets banned. But what about the buddhist we have here. Are we hosting buddhists that are unable to express themselves over there, or just buddhists that are uninterested to express themself over there? Yeah, but then the grey should have been on the back. That gives more the sense of the distance. I thought about that but I felt it would give the wrong message. I see the unconscious as being more pervasive, although generally harder to spot, than the conscious thought. So it had to be bigger, and blend more with the background. I then tried to do it the other way around, with the small and black at the end, after all that was meant as the end of a process, but then the reader would start by reading the punch line. And finally the biggest problem: The last line would not fit a single line. I realised later I should just have reached size 6. Bah, noting is perfect, it was just a joke, after all .

to have fun. Beside I thought it was artistic Mikaelz, it's not an attack, it's a teasing. It's a way to dissolve some of the tension. You know, it would really be helpful if you two got a grip and kept some form of self discipline (which we all do in any society), by keeping on the general topic. or at least not bringing the same topic everywhere you go. the Tao Bum never had a policy of ownership of a thread, but we all recognised that diversity is nice, and to have all the plates taste the same it's rather dull. So you have been discussing the nature of reality, the nature of enlightenment and the experience of losing the self in countless threads. When one thread gets ignored you move to another. You don't speak with each other because you don't have any interest to speak with fellow minded. So when we don't respond the thread just die, and you need to pick a new one. We cannot make a separate section on tTB (apart that Sean would not do it), because the section would be empty. You would not write there, because no one would read you. Which is the same reason why you are not starting your own forum. geez, you manage to even be criticized by new members that arrive and say that the situation is hopeless on post 2. On post 2! And post 1 is the required introduction. Never in my most obnoxious moment did I manage this. This thread is here trying to decide how to handle the situation. You first entered very respectfully. No one answered you, did you felt ignored? You were. You were being consciously ignored because we had other things we wanted to discuss. So you are picking up topics and excuses to hack this thread as yet another one of your threads. Either you do not realise that it is annoying, or you do not care that it's annoying, or you enjoy to annoy other people. We told you that it was annoying so I exclude the first option. Both the others undermine any possible claim of virtue from your side, and thus make your posts an intellectual game. Which is why everybody is now thinking your attainment are empty and irrelevant. Mikaelz, get a grip kid. You asked me if you were the cause of the stress? No at the beginning you were not cause of great stress, although you did not help. Now you are weighting on. And your little buddy Buddhist vampire who enjoys and sucks upon other's attention is really being infantil to the extreme. He is not going through an adolescential phase. He never came out of it. Now the one before was a teasing, this is an attack. Can you spot the difference? Pietro LATE EDIT: even in a net attack is important to keep to boudaries, and not claiming things we don't know, or end up name calling. SO I corrected the post: Took out "Vampire" (name calling). Took out "He is not going through an adolescential phase. He never came out of it." . (Not my business, don't know if it temporary state or not)

A brief view on our favourite Buddhist subconscious thinking process I'm actually not dogmatic. I'm actually non dogmatic. I'm actually non dogmatic. I'm actually non, dogmatic. I'm actually non, dogma is. I'm actually non; dogma is! I'm actually non. Dogma is!!

Oh, Sensei!, thanks for your teachings about Sun Tzu! I can now see how you are pretending to enter into this discussion, pretending to be misguided by your excessive courtesy, but deeply you are not confusing the map with the buddherritory. You are just showing this to us to show how to gain the enemies heart. Now that we got our lesson Sensei!, I would suggest to retreat on this front. As you, Sensei!, are in deep doodo, as xabir wrote right, although I cannot say if he is right, for I cannot say if he is. I would suggest prudence, Sensei! Thank you, Sensei!.

External qi, Produced by the lungs. It protects you. But the lungs are also your fighting squadron, and being the Po, the part that can be more easily lost. So it is common to have the lungs being lost, as a result have weak wei qi, be prone to weird thoughts (or entities attack) and have a low immunity against illness. It's all related to the qi of the lungs. Nice to know you are better.

Speaking about the NWO, we just can't have global corporations and local governance. Corporations need to be kept in check by governance at the same level or things go shit as they went in the last years. The idea that the invisible hand of the market does not need a government at all to control on it is gone. We experienced it, and it was not good. Some nations decide to keep a stronger hand on the market, some lighter, but no nation just let's the market do it's thing. You can't have corporations living in fiscal paradise, and then selling everywhere, and paying no tax to anyone. Either we go back to have an only local world, or we need to accept some form of global governance. But hear me, the game are still open on what kind of global governance. Whatever they (whoever you think they are) might have chosen, this does not mean that it is set in stone. I don't know how we can go back to a local only world. But maybe we could build a world where you have local ond global coexisting. I participate in metagovernment, That is a group of people who is trying to set up internet tools to let a community of any size self govern without having to vote for any representative. So that no one is in power. You'll find your way to help in the cause. Yes Maya, but now after your explenation I am not sure anymore if it fits. Thanks

There is a difference between the sciece and philosophy. Let me expose it with a little story: a phisicist goes to his dean with the plan for the next accelerometer. Cost 6 million dollars. -Look you can't always prepare those really costly experiments. 6 million dollars. We just don't have this amount of money. Why can't you do like the mathematicians? They just need pen, paper, and garbage can. Or like the philosophers? They don't even need the garbage can!

you know, I don't think anyone is out of it. Even the social engeneers are themselves subject to receive images and stimulus from the televisions. Yes they might be a bit better in dealing with them, as they study it (as they study how to make ads), but they are not awakened. The only that are truly out of it are the ones that has no gap in their consciousness. But then those people hardly feel the desire to control others. So I see it as much more cyclic. What is that buddhist name: lara, leya lila, lilla, princess leya. That illusion. I don't see a race of awakened beast, controlling the unawakened humans. I see moslt unawakened humans controlling each other. WHile the awakened ones each does something different.

thanks, it's really cool!

Hi Serene, I think most of the practitioners over here had some experiences with succubus or incubus. They tend to come when you start storing energy. No big deal. You already received many good suggestions. Here are some on top of them. A few things I found helped: 1) be grounded. 2) be prepared to meditate for long in the night, sitted. Just sit and dissolve. Whatever happens you just sit and dissolve. 3) If you really think they are entities out there tell them to go away. They do not belong to this plane! 4) Straighten up your life (For example many people masturbate, and masturbate with fantasies of sexual domination. If you dream (or use to dream) you are in control, then a succubus might try to give you that illusion to get your energy. If you dream that you are being forced (a very common fantasy among women), than an incubus might have an easier game. Stop fantasizing. Stay in this reality! 5) eat well 6) don't stay too much in front of a computer. 7) sleep warm. You don't want to be cold while you are dreaming. You don't want to have your body move out of cold while you are dreaming. Your mind would make a whole scary movie out of that movement. Just add an extra blanket. Yeah, even in summer. Your wei qi is probably down 8) clean the house. Energetically. If you can do it, good. If not call a local priest. Whatever religion is there. Every culture has people that come and clean the house from bad energy. 9) protect your house, protect your space. Statues, whatever you feel is protecting the space is good. 10)You can also take a red string and have it around your waist. Others use jade between the solar plexus and the LDD. I haven't used those methods in ages, but they effectively seal your energy from the outside. Little story. I just bought this house here in Portugal. It was full of religious images. Since I am not Christian I got rid of them. From that moment I started feeling presence. Some nice (the old grandfather who died in this house. Kind of accepting me here, and protecting the house). Some not nice (the kitchen had a really bad energy). This is a farmers house. The kitchen was probably the equivalent of a torture room for the local animals. There were places where they were left hanging, hopefully dead. But you never know, farmers are not always kind toward the animals. Today we cleaned the kitchen, breaking all the concrete that was over the stones, and getting back the old stones. Much nicer. And the energy is much better. We also throw out all the woods, and metals on which the animals were used to be hang. The energy is getting better. But I can see how the old granfather would want to live with so many religious symbols around. PS. those presence are not in a dicothomy to be a materialist. Look at me

Well, Mak claimed that he would not keep the money, but use it for the temple.

I hope I covered the whole world. And I hope I did it in a way that made sense, geographically, economically and culturally. Part of the limit was that only 20 options were allowed. Thanks to Gapminder for helping in selecting the most relevant nations.

Well, because israel is culturally more near to europe than to other middle eastern country. I could give israel a place by itself, but honestly it has neither the population nor the gdp. I couldn't give it a place with the US, simply because they are on the other side of the globe. So I thought that Israel was essentially similar to Europe (more than the other Asian countries, or the other African Countries, or the Middle easterc countries), and Middle eastern countries and north african countries went together. Also, when I write Other European country, I don't mean Other respect to Israel. I mean Other respect to the EU. In the whole poll you first have some big countries, then some smaller ones, at times joining together two middle ones. And then the large zones of influence. And those would be Other Countries of this zone (meaning excluded the ones written above). Where would you have placed Israel?

What happens when we use the ignore option Pat? I never used it so I don't know. First of all you are speaking about: go to the profile page>profile option (drop down menu)>ignore user I suppose we are not going to receive the culprit PM. But no one is so offending us (or at least me). What happens to the board? Does the board suddenly get cleaned of any post from the culprit and you are suddenly transmigrated into a parallel universe where those posts were not written and the discussion follows a different pattern? I am curious. (as a programmer it's interesting to think how would you code something like that ;-) ). A computer program that let you switch universe in the multiverse :-D

Hello Nanashi, I don't know the others, but I know nothing of the Trascendentalists. In the Italian High School Curriculum of 1987 they didn't appear unfortunately. Do you think you could tell us something. Just open a thread for this, as it sounds like it might be an interesting topic, full of tension, and drama, and surprises!

oh, but you offend me. I would never abuse of my position. It would be a fair match, and the Lady would judge who is the most valiant Jade Dragon. Who made her fly higher, for longer. It would be a teaching experience for all, I am sure.

maybe we did made some progress then. As I keep on reading and rereading Gandhi I realised the incredible change of frame of his message. He does not aim to convert the enemy, but to appeal to his humanity, without even convertung him. But yes, I think you are right. This is part of what Sun Tzu teaches us here.

Life is full of unexpected possibilities. You might need to get creative on this. Travel where a teacher is. Offer to help in exchange of getting the course for free. Work, and then do the course. Join a ehm, portuguese community, that offer qi gung teachings by the side. You never know where the next possibility might come out. I heard is good. But I am not a Buddhist, so I can't tell you if this is enough by itself or need some teacher by the side. I met a very good Buddhist teacher. She is the abbot of Upaya, a community in Santa Fe. She is the only women I feel embodies full mature femininity. Most of her life her job was to help people going through incredible sufferings (terminal cancer patients, and so on). If I was a woman in the US interested in Buddhism I would run, not walk there. From the EU is a bit farther. But I don't exclude I might visit her. She even permitted me to do Tai Ji during the Vipassana walking phase. The way she said "do it" was very funny. As if she was giving me some illegal, dirty permissions, hehe :-D . Stop! You probably haven't got a clue what your past lives where. You only know you are afraid, and this could be for thousands of reasons. Maybe you just have weak kidneys. Or you risked being strangled in the womb. But by indulging in thoughts like: you are making your life miserable by expecting that something bad is going to happen. Maybe your last life was bad, but you were paying for something. Now you have ended paying, and you are free. You just need to get rid of the fear. This is a better thought, isn't it :-D

Actually, Sensei!, as everything furthers. I am very grateful to the Buddhists in this thread for tempting us, they are focusing the thread into its real aim. And helping the taoist community join together. Yes, Sensei!, Thank You, Sensei!.

Serene Blue, no, if you are following the guide of a qualified tacher you are not risking more than in normal life. In fact you are risking less, as you have more tools to handle the shit that might hit your fan. You should follow the 70% rules, only practice practices that you understand, and remember that you can slow down from an n lifetime program to a 2n lifetime program. When I speak about understanding a practice I mean: -understand how to do it -understand what you want to reach -understand how to know that you have reached what you wanted to reach -understand what can go wrong -understand how to know if something is going wrong, and what is going wrong -know what to do if something is going wrong. A teacher that does not teach you all this for every single practice is not a good teacher, and you should consider looking for someone else. Does this answer your question? Pietro

Hi Leigong, I think I considered all the islands to be part of the biggest continent nearby. SO the Caribbean would fall under central america. Sorry if I could not be more precise?