Pietro

DOn't know much about New York teachers, but I am quite sure most of Mantak sexual stuff comes from Taiwan. The name of James McNeil ( http://www.littlenineheaven.com ) was given to me as a possible source. But I am not sure if it was him personally to teach him in Taiwan, or his teacher, or who. I haven't so far explored McNeill website. If any one did, it would be interesting to hear a review. Especially about the sexual stuff. How does it relates to Chia's. Is it more complete? DOes it give any problem in the long run? Cheers, Pietro

Haiku: 5 7 5 Let's try again: Or some sweet pink cake??? Ballet toes, Tutu clothes! can we live a dream?

suggestion, would be good if every time we speak about standing we add a jpg with the image of the position. Positions are quite important and they tend to change from one school to the other quite drammatically. In fact we should have a whole section in the gallery with the different positions. Where everybody can add their position or refer to those positions.

We weren't dissolving the Heart, Jane. We were opening the heartmind. Which my understanding is that is something different. That was done through a combination of sincronised movement and breathing along the spine. Can't get into much details or I'll have everybody trying things, and you know I am no way to teach those stuff. But I can enter into details in a PM with you if you wish so. After we opened the heart mind there was a bunch of techniques that were taught. But 4 days out of 5 were just to open the heart mind.

Me thinks we should invite them as honorary members of TBs. They are crazy enough. Just doing it for the wrong reason!

The 16 nei gung by memory! I'm impressed. FYI, last april Bruce was teaching the 15th in Germany. That is the middle dan Tien. But the real weird things was that although there was a lot of students there were many more that were missing. I mean of all the old guys I could count just 3 or 4. Maybe it was because it was germany. But my understanding was that it was the first time he was teaching this stuff. And none of those people bothered to come. Do you know of any other time he has been teaching the 15th?

Thank you Taomeow. I have read it at the time, and considered it. But I also have seen DS other time jump in the dark just following his sixth sense. Plus it is not impossible that WL has a cover story and an overt (is this how is it spelled?) story. But maybe you could offer a better bet. Or accept my bet if you think it is so favorable. Regards, Pietro

I learn from Bruce Frantzis, and from his students. We follow a tradition which, according to the tradition itself, is said to be originated before Buddhism came to China. In fact to have an unbroken lineage through Lao Tzu. If this is so I cannot say, but I have noticed a difference from most of the other taoist teachings I have found online (and offline). The only one I see being somehow similar is Taomeaw's. I don't say that the tradition is this old to make a claim of authenthicity or importance, but I AM making a claim of difference. I do feel a difference in the way problems are confronted and solved. I feel a difference in the way meditations are done. The tradition is generally refered to as the water method. Or the Taoist Water method. And according to what is passed inside the tradition the name 'water tradition' as opposed to 'fire tradition' has been used in China to distinguish practitioners of this older (again no offence meant) school of Taoism. Where as the new Taoism that was generated integrating more Buddhist concepts was called the Fire tradition. Now, according to various histories of Taoism there is a division between an older Taoism and subsequent Neo-Taoism. Neo-Taoism which included many elements from Buddhism, but also from Confucianism. They tend to speak about Neo Taoism as something that appeared around year 900. Yet according to the tradition I study from, Buddhism was there before, and the 'fire tradition' was older than year 900. So there is not a perfect match from what the tradition tells us, and what historical sources report. Or maybe the equation Fire tradition=neo Taoism (that sometimes Bruce makes) is not a perfect equation. I hope this helped. Pietro

Yes, great that you could reply. I think men on the diet might be able to get internal orgasms without feeling depressed after. I use to have tons of that and then my hormonal system would go down the drain. I don't eat chocolate, so I cannot be on the diet, but I have fish oil on my list for as soon as I get a bit more stable. Maybe the best thing is to explain and admit that a lot of what is being promoted is on the farefront of research. There are not many research done on this kind of diet, and doctors are not necessarily better in this. Yoda, if you were really lactating you should tell us: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation I am sure many of us would want to follow you just to feel more complete and whole. We are Daoists after all, not the average Joe or Wu

In our school of Taoism we recognise two goals. The first goal is to become a human being. Once you have reached that very advanced stage you can try to aim for the next which is becoming one with the Dao. Pietro

Maybe we should organise a small betting agency. I think if we base it in England it would also be legal. Among claim, counterclaim, people who love to show off, and similar we could collect a small fortune. I mean, think about it. Google made their fortune with advertisment. We simply host a small part of the site where anyone is allowed to bet on any irrealistic claim that some guru makes. Especially for those claims that can easily be checked (i.e. just wait until the 31st of October) the business would fluorish. Anybody is up for a bet? I think I can give you that Wang Liping WILL give the workshop at the indicated time and indicated place as 1-2 And will not as 2-3. Max bet accepted 100$ (might raise in future, as the business works out)

Just wanted to add for those of us who are into science that a new study appeard on the effects of diets. The low carb seem to have come out the best. It was a 2 years study, very serious. Pietro P.S Drew, for as much doubt I have in your way of reching conclusions out of intuitions and partial informations, I have a lot of respect for the work you seem to be doing. Also in the primal diet you are not supposed to eat any salt. But are you sure you should eat 'canned' vegetables. I personally would only expect canned enlightenment from that stuff 2008_Weight_Loss_with_a_Low_Carbohydrate.pdf

Hmm, fairly impossible I would say. Taoist canon isn't very easy to find. You find a book here and there. And most of the books are not translated, and in many case hard or impossible to translate. The fact that an academic had a copy of one of the books, was enough to have him raise in high consideration in the Taiwan Taoist community (details in Taoist Master Chuang). I think Pregadio (google) was working on some translations, or maybe coordinating the efforts. But generally are always limited and partial. And also the canon reflects multiple moment in taoist history. Getting the books without the context is fairly useless. If you have this depth of interest you should look at the academic community which in great part is trying to do exactly that.

pretty much: When you are speaking about tai ji you are speaking of at least 3 things. One is the sequence of movements, the second is all the internal information that goes with the sequence, that you would not be able to grasp from a video, and third the more internal stuff which you just cannot know what a person is doing. Now if you already have got 2 and 3 from a previous form, you can get something from a video. If you are learning the form, and you need to remember some details, it might also be useful. But for the rest? Mah.

Bruce said something at the last workshop which I thought was going to be VERY interesting for the community here. He was explaining about Dragon and Tiger, how it was a Taoist practice even though it was coming from a Busshist place (Shaolin). Essentially he explained that it is like having a car with a different engine, the car is a ford, but the engine is of a Ferrari. So what brand is the car? ?I would say a Ferrari'. He said. And then he went on explaining how Shaolin was a sort of crossing point for many people for 1500 years (I hope I remember the dates correctly). And how there were different type of meditation. Meditations that followed deeply different principles. So take on one side Daoism, and on the other Yoga (the one from India). In Yoga you close some channels, then you open them, and in this way you develop an energy through your channels that is going to open them up. A bit like you would do with a system of dams. On the other hand in Daoism you tend to make everything very smooth, and go from one side to the other without stopping. So in Pranayama you stop the breathing, while in Daoist meditation you keep it continuous and smooth like the one from a baby. And then he said there are different type of meditations. That follow different principles. And he said that Daoism and Yoga, are two such type. He then added a few other names. I wish I remember them. But I do remember Buddhism, and Kun Lun. Others I do not remember. But I know there is at least one which was said that I never heard before. Which I thought was interesting. So the end point is: according from this kunlun is a totally different way of doing meditation, it follows different principles, and maybe this is why we are having so much trouble in integrating it.

This is talking, finally a well stated claim. Keep it like this and we might reach something. Next time you meet him, you should ask him. For me I will not see him for quite some time, so I assume by that time I will have more pressing things to ask. Yes, I think we need to distinguish. There are many practices that orignated from those mountains. Not just the KunLun meditation. FOr example, the meditation I study with BKF are also said to originate from there. But they are not the same meditation.

No he doesn't. I know this for sure. But he does get people asking him questions about 25 hours a day. And he did said he knew someone doing kunlun in China. So he asked me if I wanted to (intellectually!) know something. I wasn't interested, so I gently thanked him, but did not took the offer. Regarding the " there is no mention of a 'kunlun' school anywhere in Daoism" If there was somwhere where all the school of Daoism where listed. Somwhere open, and public, then yes you could make sucha claim. But lacking that, and being Daoism a teaching that has no central authority, no central list, and generally under the foot of the power, more often than above, then you really cannot make such claim. FOr as much that I wish you could. It would make all our life so much easier. Pietro

If it's just a matter of different energies they could be integrated quite easily. But when they follow different principles it is much harder. Especially because the principles are very often not expressed openly. You get them from the practice, and then it's just obvious to you that the others are doing all wrong because they do practices that do not follow those obvious principles. Take for example the chap from the other thread. He rightly points out that in yoga postures the energy would not flow if you do them as they are being taught to him. So the suggestion he gets is to do them differently. But maybe (and I say maybe because I am no yogin) it was just the aim of that posture to stop the energy over there, to have it rushing back in at the end. A different principle from what we are used to. To the other question I will answer soon enough in my space in the Personal Practice section. Not to clog up this area. But now I have no time. Max, I will send you a message when I do that, so you don't need to keep on checking .

And have you got the discipline to do something every day of your life? Also you say: "I want to become the world (the universe maybe, even). " And also "I want to trascend the impermanent nature of all things". Those two desire are not the same (although they might seem so). They would be if you were assuming that the world (the universe) was unchanging, permanent. But what if that is evolving to? Would you rather go along with the ride, or reach stillness and that's it. So eventually you'll need to chose.

but there are. Sometimes to protect the family tradition/power who use to hold them, sometime to protect the people who would get harmed by not being ready or fit to use them, sometimes because some practices can help you in some historical settings, but really be of no help in others. Sometimes because some practices might strenthen you to the point that if you are not equally grwon in wisdom you might misuse them and harm others. In short the world is wide. Yes this is (still) not a kunlun forum. We just never managed to balance its energy. So we mostly retire waiting for this craze to end like all the others. Many people hoped that eventually it would get more balanced when they had their own farmyard, but if they are start to get all stuck up into admitting only the cream of the cream we are still going to keep on having all the loonies .

fuck off! Sorry, I am just trying to make you feel confortable I know, I know Sean, I'll shut up for one week.

Dao Zhen, 林愛偉, ... (and I wish I knew better who was posting from there) are you all ok? Pietro

Dao Zhen sent me a mail. He sais he is ok. I asked permission to share more of his letter, and I will if I am given. Pietro

this kind of post make me wonder. Here you have, someone who has never posted before, arriving and posting a link just to stir up a conversation on a the subject of a different school. However the discussion goes the school will get promoted. As TBs increases in visibility this kind of behaviour is becoming more and more common. I wonder how does this go along with the aims of the permanent residents to this community. I do not have a solution, but I do wonder.

Great question. when I started I was the classic teenager fanatic. And I would try in all way to convert/enlighten all my friends and people from my family. It generally never worked. A part from a few case of people who were really just waiting for an excuse to start their spiritual journey (i.e. pretending for the sake of the argument that they weren't before ;o) ) Now my mother is doing buddhist meditation, and my father is interested in qi gung. How did I do this? Wrong question. How did it happen? Good question. I haven't done it. What happened was that eventually I got tired of trying to speak to people who just did not care and that would push back every time I pushed them. So I just kept on practicing, and this was all. I would not make secrets of what I was doing. But I would not try to convince them. Eventually when you stop trying too hard they will come to you by themselves. It is a bit like feeding a mouse. You can't do it. Every time you move it will run away. But if you sit still, with food in your palm it might calm and eat it by himself. After all the hunger for spirituality is intrinsec in every human being. And if it is not already there, there is really nothing that you can do. Pietro