Pietro

But you see, everything that goes (except chi to the head) up must come down. I don't vote posts up or down depending if I like them. Instead I look at what ratings they have, what rating according to me they should have, and I thumb up or down to make the rating approach the optimal rating. So if you rise your posts to high, I will always lower them, even when I like them. But you do have a good point that no one should be allowed to self vote. Reputation is someone you receive from others as a result for something that you do. Also in slashdot, who have been exploring reputation before, you don't have an infinite number of points to vote others up and down. Just from time to time you are given some points. You can't store them. You can't use them on yourself. And you receive those points in a way that is somehow related to how much activity you do. So if you have 1000 accounts, you still would get the same number of points, unless each of those accounts is active. The simple way of just letting everybody vote, is asking for a group of people that just vote each other up, and vote everybody that do not agree with them down. It has happened in other groups often. Especially if there is a filter system where you can just ask to see only the posts above a certain value. So if we are not in control of the voting system because we are using a package, maybe we should not give too much importance to it, play with it, and then take it off before it starts to make some real damage.

Hi TaoMeow, old tao bum friend of mine. I think you are absolutely correct, in your requiring the lineage to be pure and certified. Bruce always claimed that he has completed the training to the point of being a lineage master, that Liu claimed that he (Bruce) has reached the body of individuality (refer for this to the book-relaxing into your being). As such he assumes a very different position respect to all the people who halfway through the training said they have enough, and walk away. He stopped studying with Liu because Liu died. When I say that there are copies of documents in those books I mean that the documents are actually photocopied. With chinese writings and translation in english below. I don't know what would be needed to authenticate them. Liu was called a Urban hermit, but Liu was a learned men, so I am sure he passed to Bruce every document that it was needed for him to be what he felt Bruce had attained. After all Liu was doing his duty in passing on the lineage, so he had no intention to recognize in Bruce any level below what he has reached. Remember also that Liu showed that he knew when he was going to die. So he probably had time to prepare. Not only, but Bruce told me that in Beijing he attended a meeting where only masters where allowed to enter. This is what he means when he says that he is a master in Beijing. How would you authenticate those documents? I also would not know how to ask Bruce without sound insulting. I mean, I have a degree in maths from the university of Rome. Now suppose you want me to show you the degree. This I can happily provide (and in fact I need to provide it every time I get a job in the academia). But then you look at it, and say: hmm, has this piece of paper ever been authenticated? Now that does not sound exactly respectful, does it? ;-). In any case if there are rumors around, you should find exactly what those rumors say, who says it, and I am sure if you contact the office they will do something about it (in the sense of showing whatever document is needed). Considering that the world of masters is a small world indeed, he might even just contact the person doubting him, and clarifying with him. Liu also adopted Bruce as a son in his family, with the traditional chinese rites. This permitted to Liu to pass to Bruce the material without asking him to make specific vows. But even releasing Bruce from previous vows for all that Liu re-taught Bruce, and that Bruce already knew. So we now have a lineage master who is practically free of vows to teach. This is rare indeed. You are absolutely correct in saying that there is a difference between people who are allowed to only pass on a lineage and people who can change it. I asked Bruce if he could add things to his lineage, and he answered that he could not because: "that would require an immortal", which he never claimed to be. So although he is considered a relative (having been adopted) he still cannot change the lineage because he lacks the level necessary. But he can teach (nearly) freely, which most lineage holders cannot. He also explained me that Liu did not have the time to finish Bruce training as an immortal, and told him that that would have needed about 3 other years. Now Bruce would need to find another immortal to complete this training. And someone from the water method tradition (I suppose). If you, Taomeow, know anyone, we might put them in contact. As you point out there is a difference between being the only person responsible for a lineage and someone among others who passes the lineage on. He has multiple lineages, but in many of them (bagua, hsing i, tai ji wu style, tai ji old yang style) he is just a person transmitting it (my understanding). In that particular branch of the water tradition he might be the holder. I hope this helps. Pietro (who feels humbled of speaking of things so much bigger of him)

you are a cutie

Buffy? Really? How come (serious question)? I think I saw only one episode but I don't remember anything remotely related.

You asked if the 200 postures summed up all the postures inside taoism, and you asked a bunch of other questions. I gave you the information that I knew, so that we could focus on the information that Bruce has not given out yet. Then I pointed out on the information that he hasn't said so far. In particular I do not know, nor do I know of any student of Bruce that knows, if the 200 postures are ALL the postures in Taoism. So it was a good question. Just that! Really :-). P.S. if you still have doubts please pm me. :-D Thanks, I zhan zhuang corrected :-)

You might want to rethink this causal link

But I ignore if it... ... sum of all standing postures in all of Taoism

There are some documents copied at the end of the book The Power of Internal Martial Arts. (pg 359) There is a Bagua certificate written By Liu Hung Chieh from 6 September 1981; (pg 361) There is a Hsing-I certificate written By Liu Hung Chieh from 11 September 1981; (pg 360) A Tai Ji Certificate from the 11 September 1981 from the Beijing Institute of Physical Education; Then (pg 362) there is the lineage list of Bagua, written by Liu, and having Bruce name as the 7th generation; and the Tai Ji lineage (pg 363) having Bruce as 7th generation. Were you not aware of them? Or are you looking for other documents? Also, Bruce has a PhD in medicine. So another interesting question might be the reference of his PhD, to read it. :-)

My understanding is that it's a system in itself. But I ignore if it...

Thank you, and welcome. Have you tried it? What were your experiences? P.

Thanks, me too. From when I read "the book" I haven't had any karezza-compliant relationship.

I think Deida worked with Michael Winn for this part of his books. At least Michael says so.

Creation, I suppose you were asking this to me. But if we start chatting we should open a different thread. I am sure Sean does not appreciate writing here until the question time is over. Yes, he mentioned it in Brighton, last year or the year before. He later told me he knew someone (he said the name, but I am not good with names) who was (became?) a big shot in Kun Lun. But I don't know what exactly did he meant. I have to admit he offered to tell me something about it, but I wasn't interested (sorry, but the time with him is somehow always limited, so I need to prioritize the things that I really need). But this community is interested, so I suppose it would make a great topic for a question of general relevance. No, it's not the only, there are others. (Although I don't know if Bruce knows them directly, or just Liu mentioned it to him; let's not forget that Bruce left China after Liu died). The name of the lineage is not public. I don't think anyone (except Bruce) knows it. You should ask this to him. This is one question where he has said that they all aim to the same thing... but I myself have a lot of doubts. At least let's just say that each path can make you fall in different pits. So people can not reach the aim, and then become widely different human beings. But I am no one, and he is the lineage master.

Now this would be a really good question. Bruce often explained that Yoga, Buddhism, Taoism, (and he once also mentioned kunlun), tend to follow different principles. So much that if you are an expert you can recognize where a practice was created, even many generations after the practice has been adopted by another group He often has entered in the differences between Yoga and Taoism. And part of this is because he spent time in India and even 10 months in a cave. But he never explained the differences between all the other traditions. I think this would be a great question for this community, and being a question that has never been asked (between kunlun and taoism for example) it covers new ground. And here is my question: Taoism has a system of 200 standing postures. Out of those 200 postures a subset of 8 are used in I Chuan. Bruce is recently teaching a course on them. What are the effects of those basic postures?

cuddle with your girlfriend a lot. Sleep tight, hug. All this will release oxitocine, which will balance out the testosterone. Also you can have sex without getting so exited. Don't reach the point where you need to do the power lock. Just keep it smooth. It is easier if you explain to her why you might need to change your sexual style. At least some time.

It is him

Bruce: -"Pietro who?"

I met Bruce recently, when he came to Rome. He spoke about the bagua program, and showed us some material. My sensation was that his attitude about it was, "we'll see if it works". He is also testing the new tools and possibilities. We are not speaking about a book, or a video, but the combination of all of it. The hope is that explaining the material, and showing how it should be done, and showing how it is done at various levels of accomplishments might let people learn. People who cannot otherwise learn. But there is a more important effort behind this. In the west there are a lot of people who teach tai ji (and bagua) without being really good at it. Often those people don't know themselves what the art can reach. Or they only heard about it. It is a bit the difference between being a Tai Ji master in Beijing or being a Tai Ji master in Worthing (no offense to whoever is teaching in worthing, I just took a random english town). There was a time when any white person going to Africa was a "doctor". Maybe you never studied medicine. But you were white, thus people would think you were a doctor. Similarly there was a time where every white face in Japan was an english teacher. Maybe you were spanish, and spoke only bad English. You still could pass as a english teacher in Japan. You would get a position at the university, serious stuff! Well the situation about Tai Ji in the west is similar. You have people who are "instructors" in Beijing, after having done a 1 month course, coming to the west and open a school, calling themselves Sifu. Someone who stayed 1 year in the chen village might claim that he is a master. They would not be accepted as masters in Beijing. But they are called masters in Europe. Sometimes their teacher who knew the material did not explain it to them. Either there was a linguistic barrier, or a cultural one, or any of the many reasons why a teacher might keep some material for himself. Now Bruce is recognized as a master in Beijing. So, by starting to put down real material the hope is that other teachers will start putting out real material themselves. And he wasn't just speaking of bagua, but also of taji. Because most of the principles are the same (his words). So that the combined effect might be that bagua and tai ji in the west does a big jump. Not just through his school. If he only wanted to progress his school he probably would not have taught so openly. Think what Mantak did about the sexual practices. When Mantak came out no one knew about sexual practices and practices about storing the energy in the bone marrow. Now many qi gung classes teach it, even if they do not derive directly from Mantak school. Somehow once a teacher starts to put out a level of material, the others will tend to open up. I think this is what Bruce is really aiming for. Also when in Rome, Bruce asked to meet with local tai ji martial artists. As the person organizing the meeting (I am his only instructor from Rome) I was present. What was really touching was the way in which he explained us how we need to work together through the different schools. How there is only one tai ji. How if we see that maybe we know something that the other school is not doing, we should comunicate, and try to help each other. And how if we do not comunicate and each school of tai ji remains inside its own tradition the next generation, and the generation after, are the ones that are going to be really screwed. We are ok, but our sons and grandsons will not be. He also stressed out how time is running short. How our generation (in Europe) is really when the change should happen. As the next generation will be harder. And how in the US because you guys are 1 generation ahead, things are harder for you. Tai Ji is more stable, more known, and it is harder to change the imprint there. Having been with Bruce in Rome. Having helped him to organise this meeting. Having seen the material. I don't think it is honest to say that it is just a promotion. Or it is useless. It might work in indirect ways though.

"do you ever practice outside?" "Girl, I like yoga, but it really loses a lot not doing it in nature" "do you know any place where it is possible to practice" -"no I don't know that? Could you bring me?" "Do you know of any good vegetarian place around here" Ask after yoga, while you are still lying on the mat. Ask as if you were just waking up from the most superb dream. In general it's easier to hook up during a workshop. Or before class: "I need a massage" "here, let me give you a massage" "I just learned this foot massage, let me try it on you. [joking tone]Tell me if it's VERY painful[/joking tone]"

I wonder if we could find a middle ground here. Like women not speaking too much but being allowed to flirt with the eyes . Personally I find to be a lot of work to go with older women, they have a lot of bad experiences that make having sex with them a gymkhana or a long prolonged healing process. WTF! This I will not do because 5 bf ago, because my 3rd bf always wanted to do it in this way, and then there was that one time when ... and so ... and as a result... and I felt... and even after... . So now I don't do ..., ..., ..., and of course ... . Meditators are a bit different, but even them, not all.

Yes. It is serious indeed. It is the case to repeat that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. We are on our way to understand the human hormonal system. And wisdom would want that we do not mess around with things until we have a pretty clear understanding of what is going on. Market wants otherwise, so we kiss the invisible hand and we adapt to it. The promises of hormonal therapy are incredible, but the costs... hopefully at the current rate of medical advancement we might be able to rebalance some of the damages done in the lifetime of those kids.

I just come from Bruce 3 weeks course on breathing. We also worked on the legs. The question was asked about breathing under the lower dan tien (basically below the pelvic floor). Basically he explained that if you breath under, you should breath through the whole legs (the wise man breathes through his heels, and all that jazz). If you breath in your genitals and you are having sex quite regularly that can be ok. But doing techniques of breathing in the genitals, not in the legs, while not having regular sex can be dangerous in the long run. He mentioned people having problems over the age of 60 in China after having done those techniques in their twenties... Problems being finding that their legs stopped working, being wheel chair bound and so on. No, I do not know if the techniques you have practices so far have fucked you up. No, I do not know what you should do if you have practiced those techniques in the past. I just share this information, as I think it might be relevant for people. Also we were told that much of what is around in the west in terms of sexual techniques, is coming from a booklet that was published in Taiwan, and circling in the Taiwan prostitute area in the 60's. And even then people where having problems, although they were not advertised that much. No such problem arise if you breath (or blow) other people's genitals; just a friendly hint.

A few clarifications 1. Bruce is teaching now material that he never taught before. So do not assume that because someone knew his material before he still knows his material now 2. The water path and the fire path are not part of a 5 systems, it does not mean there is a wood path a metal path and an earth path, 3. Bruce never uses visualization in his teachings. At best visualization is a useless distraction. Like keeping the radio on while you are driving, 4. Certificates (toilet paper) are necessary to make sure you learn from someone who has correctly learned the material. They were used in China before. If you look at the back of Bruce book on the internal martial arts you will find his papers given to him by Liu. Liu himself was registered as a master. If you have it it should be easy for you to get a certificate (if your hubris didn't stop you). If you don't have it it should be hard. A certificate always has the name of who issues it. So if someone gives away certificate to peopke that don't have it, ultimately it is his face that goes down. But i do not defent the american system as i don't know it. I am just saying 'some' form of certificates are useful.

________________________ | good boys don't speak with the mouth full | |_______________________| | | | psst: Tyler, speak to you later